Originally posted by Erow

Well I tried out the sample edition of World of Warcraft lately.  I am so glad I did that instead of re-subbing my old account.  I don't even recognize the game any more.

No talent trees?  No alternate weapons slots?  WTF?  No reason to see trainers except to respec?

This game just keeps getting more and more watered down with every expansion.

What a shame.

Goodby World of Warcraft, hello World of Weaksauce.

Same here. Not to mention they ruined my second favorite class, Feral Druid, and my DK is barely better.

Everything is dumbed down. I'd rather resubcribe to SW:TOR, which has real talent trees, than to the dumbed down WoW now. And that's coming form someone who had at least one (most of the times two) active accounts for 7 and half years. Blizzard got my last money this last month.

They butchered the levelling experience with Cataclysm. I am an altoholic and I have all 10 classes but the last two I had to level up during Cata were just painful. They made it so faceroll and that you almost ding every 10 min lol especially if you get that stupid refer a friend offer where you get 300% more xp lol.

On the flip side, back in vanilla if I wanted to play a new class, it toooooooooooooook ages to get that class to cap and gear it up so I never actually bothered to level up new characters once I got my lock and dr00d to 60.

@poster above, you're exaggerating. That cave in Shadowglen was faceroll even in vanilla. You didn't have to "plan your attacks". You had like 2-3 attacks anyway at that level :D

But then again the endgame of WoW hasn't changed much since Vanilla/TBC. There are still raids, some of which are very difficult, battlegrounds etc.

If I had to play an MMO at the moment, it would still be WoW. There just doesn't seem to be anything. For some reason I love the PVP in WoW. Vanilla and TBC can't be matched by any MMO. They were just sooooooooooooooooooooooooo fdamn goood.

Originally posted by Erow

Well I tried out the sample edition of World of Warcraft lately.  I am so glad I did that instead of re-subbing my old account.  I don't even recognize the game any more.

No talent trees?  No alternate weapons slots?  WTF?  No reason to see trainers except to respec?

This game just keeps getting more and more watered down with every expansion.

What a shame.

Goodby World of Warcraft, hello World of Weaksauce.

Yes, let's have another post from someone who's found the game doesn't suit them. If you don't like a game, just move and look for something else......quietly.

I was of the mind that the MoP talent rape was a horrid idea, (as Cataclysm's most definitely was) but after actually trying it out extensively it's fairly decent, to be honest. (Priest, DK, Warrior, Warlock, Hunter - I didn't touch my rogue, druid, shaman at all yet and account is expired/cancelled.)

MoP itself is reasonably well done, if you can stomach the heavy Asian themes and extremely childish nonsense.

But it lacks any real coherent storyline, reeks of F2P Asian MMO - and at the end of the day it's the same as WOTLK's ToC patch->Cataclysm.

Level as fast as possible.
Grind gear.
Use previous gear to grind more gear.
Use that gear to grind more gear.
Rinse repeat.

TLDR:

It lacks anything resembling a soul, even one so small as what mid-WOTLK or Cataclysm had.

Originally posted by delete5230

Does anyone remember at what level you get you your mount in Vanilla WoW ?...I think level 40 but that seems a little long.

mounts have been available at lvl 20 since Lich King patch 3.2  (Aug 2009)

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.2.0

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Originally posted by Nadia

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Originally posted by delete5230 Does anyone remember at what level you get you your mount in Vanilla WoW ?...I think level 40 but that seems a little long.

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mounts have been available at lvl 20 since Lich King patch 3.2  (Aug 2009)

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.2.0

 

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It was level 40 and cost about 90g, which was incredibly difficult to obtain unless you spent a lot of time on the AH or got lucky on a world drop.

Originally posted by AegisSaga

Originally posted by Arcondo87

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by MMOExposed
so first people complain that people stay in cities all the time, but when Blizzard gives you a reason not to go to cities, you also complain? interesting.

 

Yes, people used to stand around cities all day long because the trainers are there. Now that the need of visiting trainers is gone and they are all still standing there, it must be because they are not yet aware of the change. Yes, this must be it.

NOW ppl stand arround in cities all day cuz they dont ever have to leave! With LFG and raidfinder now. Why do you even have to leave? just stay in SW/Org and keep bashing the LFG and LFR till your 90. This game is sooo dummed down its not even funny any more...cant believe how lazy the world has become over the past 6 years...what happen to exploration and traveling.

Maybe the 2012 end of the world is what this world needs to start a new and kill off all these lazy ass generation....

 

Dumbed down? World of Warcraft's meat is not the leveling, it's the endgame. Complaining that WoW is easy after just leveling is like saying that Big Mac combo you just bought has no calories just because you've only tasted the diet coke that came with it.

 

Try doing heroic raids, that's where you'll find challenge: a bigger challenge than any other themepark MMO out there. If you don't like raiding, then WoW is not for you, basically.

I fully admit, I'm no were CLOSE to being 'good' at WoW, I'd say I'm average or slightly above. My guild is still having trouble with a few NORMAL bosses. Yea, leveling is easy...But so what? That's like playing a game on super easy baby mode then bitching its too easy, when on normal or hard you get facestomped..

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Originally posted by AegisSaga

Originally posted by Arcondo87

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Dumbed down? World of Warcraft's meat is not the leveling, it's the endgame. Complaining that WoW is easy after just leveling is like saying that Big Mac combo you just bought has no calories just because you've only tasted the diet coke that came with it.

 

Try doing heroic raids, that's where you'll find challenge: a bigger challenge than any other themepark MMO out there. If you don't like raiding, then WoW is not for you, basically.

HA! PWNED!!!! +1 to this lol.

You see, that is where your camp and mine differ.  For us, it isn't the end of the road that matters.  It's the journey.  But you are right about one thing.  As it stands now WoW isn't for me.  That is the whole point of my OP.

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The only challenge comes at level 90 when you do a Herioc raid or whatever the nifty neat level 90 hard thing is. Can you list out the challenge prior to that??

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Ask that of every mature game out there. The latest expansion trivializes the previous content.

WoW is still the same...

I have been playing since day 1 and yes there have been changes during the 8 years. It was definitely made more casual than it used to be in Vanilla or even BC, but coming with this post after they released their last expansion seems kind of weird to me.

Why? Because the game is practically the same since WOTLK. There have been some minor changes, but nothing so important.

Most significant change in last couple years in my eyes was the introduction of "Looking for..." tools. They made ppl stay in the city and just queue. The whole world became practically useless.

Now in MoP it was addressed by having world bosses, daily quests, xrealm zones, so that if you go out to the world, there are ppl and OWPvP again which is a good thing, in my opinion. I hate dailies though, but it's my personal preference.

You complain about talent trees. Fair enough, I do agree that they were simplified which on the first sight may seem to be the worst thing you could imagine. However, do you remember what it used to be before they were changed to this? For me, when new expansion / major patch arrived, I just checked on the internet for the build...hmmm ok so now it is 30 / 5 / 17 (made up combination), distributed the talent points accordingly and jumped to the action.

My point is, WoW is a themepark, kind of an instant fun game which never had SO much depth. Maybe in Vanilla, there was something to it, but since BC, all you log in for is to do BGs, RBGs, Raids, Dungs and other rides.

I think most players are annoyed when they have to touch their talents at all. Most of the WoW's players just want instant action which is what WoW is about. Of course you could / still can adjust your build, so that it corresponds better with the way you are used to play (or at least in PvP since in PVE there always been cookie cutter builds which you either had or slacked on dps and was flamed by other ppl in the grp for having a wrong build), but I am convinced WoW is so casual instant action that vast majority of its players would not even care if they completely removed the builds. It is made for people who just want to jump in and play.

To me it seems that you are suggesting that WoW lost its incredible depth it used to have...but did it really? I just find the game to be still the same. Maybe you remember wrong what WoW used to be since people incline to remember old things better than they actually are or maybe it is me remembering old WoW wrong, but I just do not see this significant transition to something completely different and siginificantly worse than what old WoW used to be. Especially not between CATA and MOP.

I also want depth in an MMO, but I am not looking for it in a pure themepark game...

Originally posted by coretex666

WoW is still the same...

I have been playing since day 1 and yes there have been changes during the 8 years. It was definitely made more casual than it used to be in Vanilla or even BC, but coming with this post after they released their last expansion seems kind of weird to me.

Why? Because the game is practically the same since WOTLK. There have been some minor changes, but nothing so important.

Most significant change in last couple years in my eyes was the introduction of "Looking for..." tools. They made ppl stay in the city and just queue. The whole world became practically useless.

Now in MoP it was addressed by having world bosses, daily quests, xrealm zones, so that if you go out to the world, there are ppl and OWPvP again which is a good thing, in my opinion. I hate dailies though, but it's my personal preference.

You complain about talent trees. Fair enough, I do agree that they were simplified which on the first sight may seem to be the worst thing you could imagine. However, do you remember what it used to be before they were changed to this? For me, when new expansion / major patch arrived, I just checked on the internet for the build...hmmm ok so now it is 30 / 5 / 17 (made up combination), distributed the talent points accordingly and jumped to the action.

My point is, WoW is a themepark, kind of an instant fun game which never had SO much depth. Maybe in Vanilla, there was something to it, but since BC, all you log in for is to do BGs, RBGs, Raids, Dungs and other rides.

I think most players are annoyed when they have to touch their talents at all. Most of the WoW's players just want instant action which is what WoW is about. Of course you could / still can adjust your build, so that it corresponds better with the way you are used to play (or at least in PvP since in PVE there always been cookie cutter builds which you either had or slacked on dps and was flamed by other ppl in the grp for having a wrong build), but I am convinced WoW is so casual instant action that vast majority of its players would not even care if they completely removed the builds. It is made for people who just want to jump in and play.

To me it seems that you are suggesting that WoW lost its incredible depth it used to have...but did it really? I just find the game to be still the same. Maybe you remember wrong what WoW used to be since people incline to remember old things better than they actually are or maybe it is me remembering old WoW wrong, but I just do not see this significant transition to something completely different and siginificantly worse than what old WoW used to be. Especially not between CATA and MOP.

I also want depth in an MMO, but I am not looking for it in a pure themepark game...

 

Wow... I pretty much agree with errthing you said... Let me take a moment to drink this in.. .it's refreshing. You Sir. I like you. 

Originally posted by Praetalus

Originally posted by coretex666

WoW is still the same...

I have been playing since day 1 and yes there have been changes during the 8 years. It was definitely made more casual than it used to be in Vanilla or even BC, but coming with this post after they released their last expansion seems kind of weird to me.

Why? Because the game is practically the same since WOTLK. There have been some minor changes, but nothing so important.

Most significant change in last couple years in my eyes was the introduction of "Looking for..." tools. They made ppl stay in the city and just queue. The whole world became practically useless.

Now in MoP it was addressed by having world bosses, daily quests, xrealm zones, so that if you go out to the world, there are ppl and OWPvP again which is a good thing, in my opinion. I hate dailies though, but it's my personal preference.

You complain about talent trees. Fair enough, I do agree that they were simplified which on the first sight may seem to be the worst thing you could imagine. However, do you remember what it used to be before they were changed to this? For me, when new expansion / major patch arrived, I just checked on the internet for the build...hmmm ok so now it is 30 / 5 / 17 (made up combination), distributed the talent points accordingly and jumped to the action.

My point is, WoW is a themepark, kind of an instant fun game which never had SO much depth. Maybe in Vanilla, there was something to it, but since BC, all you log in for is to do BGs, RBGs, Raids, Dungs and other rides.

I think most players are annoyed when they have to touch their talents at all. Most of the WoW's players just want instant action which is what WoW is about. Of course you could / still can adjust your build, so that it corresponds better with the way you are used to play (or at least in PvP since in PVE there always been cookie cutter builds which you either had or slacked on dps and was flamed by other ppl in the grp for having a wrong build), but I am convinced WoW is so casual instant action that vast majority of its players would not even care if they completely removed the builds. It is made for people who just want to jump in and play.

To me it seems that you are suggesting that WoW lost its incredible depth it used to have...but did it really? I just find the game to be still the same. Maybe you remember wrong what WoW used to be since people incline to remember old things better than they actually are or maybe it is me remembering old WoW wrong, but I just do not see this significant transition to something completely different and siginificantly worse than what old WoW used to be. Especially not between CATA and MOP.

I also want depth in an MMO, but I am not looking for it in a pure themepark game...

 

Wow... I pretty much agree with errthing you said... Let me take a moment to drink this in.. .it's refreshing. You Sir. I like you. 

Appreciated

Originally posted by Erow

Originally posted by Zecktorin

Originally posted by AegisSaga

Originally posted by Arcondo87

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Dumbed down? World of Warcraft's meat is not the leveling, it's the endgame. Complaining that WoW is easy after just leveling is like saying that Big Mac combo you just bought has no calories just because you've only tasted the diet coke that came with it.

 

Try doing heroic raids, that's where you'll find challenge: a bigger challenge than any other themepark MMO out there. If you don't like raiding, then WoW is not for you, basically.

HA! PWNED!!!! +1 to this lol.

You see, that is where your camp and mine differ.  For us, it isn't the end of the road that matters.  It's the journey.  But you are right about one thing.  As it stands now WoW isn't for me.  That is the whole point of my OP.

His point was WoW has almost always been about the end. It is a raiding game pretty much always has been. Lol I enjoy a long journey as much if not more than you do. I'm an EvE vet sir. My journey was longer than what WoW's journey ever was. I did not like what they did to WoW either beleive me. However MoP is a decent expansion. We are going to have to get over that fact. Vanilla and TBC( my favorite) is gone and not coming back.

Originally posted by Erow

Well I tried out the sample edition of World of Warcraft lately.  I am so glad I did that instead of re-subbing my old account.  I don't even recognize the game any more.

No talent trees?  No alternate weapons slots?  WTF?  No reason to see trainers except to respec?

This game just keeps getting more and more watered down with every expansion.

What a shame.

Goodby World of Warcraft, hello World of Weaksauce.

Come to better one, 2 days left to expansion release >> http://stormlegion.riftgame.com

Originally posted by moguy2

Originally posted by Chrisbox
No alternate weapon slots is fine, they made it so that you know what you have to use and dont need anything extra.  For example hunters only use Bows no melee now...Thats not a bad thing at all Im fine without having to worry about my stat stick. 

You are so right. Except for the fact that now you have 1 to 2 less things to worry about. And for classes that use those 1-2 less things THEY dont have to re work their positioning or their abilities associated with them.  Wands - bows - guns- throwing stuff. Dont worry- you just use the ability and bam it works. The 8 year old hunter can still shoot you now with his lil bow and not get rolled cause he has no idea how to melee / evade. But then again - the way it was was an " extra " thing you had to adapt to. An extra thing you had to use your brain for.

Yep, couldn't agree more. My 6 year old daughter loves playing the game. And she's actually quite good at it. No wonder, since you have no need to understand anything but:

- follow arrow in radar

- click anything with question mark or exclamation mark and accept or finish (no need to read the text)

- fight anything in the list on the right hand side of the screen until number before slash equals the one after.

Works perfectly!

I can't be bothered with it anymore. It's been a long time since I enjoyed games that are catered to pre-teens.

Vanilly WoW already did not have a very high challenge level, but now it's beyond rediculous. What's next? WoW for pre-schoolers?

Guess the OP is just trolling. Or bad in discussing. Still: MMORPGs ain't supposed to be complex. They have to apply to the masses. The masses don't want complex games. If a game is complex, the masses stay away or leave. If you want a complex game, don't play MMORPGs.

Originally posted by kivech

Originally posted by moguy2

Originally posted by Chrisbox
No alternate weapon slots is fine, they made it so that you know what you have to use and dont need anything extra.  For example hunters only use Bows no melee now...Thats not a bad thing at all Im fine without having to worry about my stat stick. 

You are so right. Except for the fact that now you have 1 to 2 less things to worry about. And for classes that use those 1-2 less things THEY dont have to re work their positioning or their abilities associated with them.  Wands - bows - guns- throwing stuff. Dont worry- you just use the ability and bam it works. The 8 year old hunter can still shoot you now with his lil bow and not get rolled cause he has no idea how to melee / evade. But then again - the way it was was an " extra " thing you had to adapt to. An extra thing you had to use your brain for.

Yep, couldn't agree more. My 6 year old daughter loves playing the game. And she's actually quite good at it. No wonder, since you have no need to understand anything but:

- follow arrow in radar

- click anything with question mark or exclamation mark and accept or finish (no need to read the text)

- fight anything in the list on the right hand side of the screen until number before slash equals the one after.

Works perfectly!

I can't be bothered with it anymore. It's been a long time since I enjoyed games that are catered to pre-teens.

Vanilly WoW already did not have a very high challenge level, but now it's beyond rediculous. What's next? WoW for pre-schoolers?

She's probably better than you, and also a better liar.

Originally posted by MMOExposed
so first people complain that people stay in cities all the time, but when Blizzard gives you a reason not to go to cities, you also complain? interesting.

Ive seen your posts and IM pretty sure your smart enough to know the difference between not leaving the cities and using the cities for a specfic purpose then leaving again.