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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Are we really falling for this again?!

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147 posts found
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/09/12 7:13:30 AM#61
I liked what I heard about the game at first,when everyone else was hating on it.

But this megaserver and phasing stuff has made me change my mind. I'm also wary that they decided to go with a raiding endgame. The pvp looks fun,but I've not played a game yet that had both instanced raiding and good pvp. For that matter I've not played a game yet that had instanced raiding and meaningfull crafting. If they manage to include raids without damaging the rest of the game it will be an industry first. They might just pull it off though as the devs mostly come from games with good crafting and pvp, namely daoc and uo.
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7249

11/09/12 7:14:07 AM#62
Originally posted by slicknslim88
Wow, we already got haters for this game just for trailers of the game.  Nobody knows yet how this game will turn out, give it the benefit of the doubt and chill the fuck out.

People wont know a thing until we get to feel the combat. the ESO system has potential to be feel real organic.

 

Just don't go quoting the GW2 marketing team. It scares me.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  User Deleted
11/09/12 7:14:17 AM#63
Originally posted by jiveturkey12

A new flashy trailer comes out and everyone is ready to give their bodies to Zenimax as tribute to their greatness (in Marketing!)

 

Seriously, does anyone remember SWTOR still? I know weve tried to put the image in the back of our head and really repress all those terrible memories, but lets not forget ESO is still an MMO from a AAA company. The new trailer really does make the game look great, at least in the over-exagerated 500 person armies battling and the whole "Play how you want style", which is very well displayed in a video depicting every Elder Scrolls character ever donning the EXACT Helmet from skyrim in every scene. Seriously isnt this set BEFORE skyrim? Was the Dovakiin the first Hipster who brought that style back a few centuries later?

 

Anyway let me just refresh your memory on how "Good" marketing can make even a crap-piece of a game look amazing. 

 

Exhibit A

 

Also am I the only one who finds it hypocritical that ESO fans like to say us Core Elder Scrolls fans are too dismissive of ESO, yet one video comes out showing the game systems in an over-edited and cinematic fashion (Obviously to increase hype) and everyone goes crazy apeshit over it???

So let me see if I understand you: A good marketing campaign means the game is bad?

You've already decided that you don't like ESO, so you're going to 'sound the alarm' for supposedly true Elder Scrolls fan every time someone actually says they are interested in the game?

What on earth does the SWTOR marketing have anything to do with TESO?  Nothing, oh wait, it had ... marketing?

The OP, once again, is doing nothing but blasting the MMORPG and basically questioning the gullibility of anyone who may actually be interested in it.. This is nothing but flame bait  - a haven for people that hate the game, and basically calling anyone who may disagree, fools.  

Why create a discussion thread when there is no room for discussion on the matter?

  Threatlevel0

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 165

11/09/12 7:14:55 AM#64
Originally posted by Vorch

Let's just be honest....

 

...no MMO will ever be good enough for the forum contributers at MMORPG. Whether it's good/bad, themepark/sandbox, f2p/p2p/b2p, it's simply too cool and mainstream to hate on whatever comes out and then say that the genre should copy or go back to UO/DaoC/EVE/etc.

 

If you guys were given a box of legos, you'd complain that they don't have enough colors for you to have fun. We've become a community that simply can not even attempt to enjoy games before we bash them.

 

 

 

Let's just be realistic...

 

If you were given a box of legos as a grown adult...you'd complain rather than just have fun as well.  Now when I go to Denny's they don't give me a coloring sheet and a few crayons to have fun with anymore.   Why?  Because I expect more and we all know it's just not fun to sit around playing with the same old legos....   Is it wrong to expect more?

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

11/09/12 7:21:29 AM#65
Originally posted by Siveria

3) I'll be honest here most mmorpg players these days are morons who are bascally like cattle being lead to the slaughterhouse, they'll believe anything that is said about the game, and in general they are easly manipulated fools.

This is also true with anti-hype.  Players bash a game so hard that other people begin to believe it's bad... like cattle to the slaughterhouse.

  DeniZg

Elite Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 542

11/09/12 7:24:53 AM#66

Let's be honest and realistic.

If they manage to pull off technically polished game which is rich in features (both PVE and PVP), they will have a hit on their hands. When saying hit, I mean MMO with staying power.

Oterwise, IP will warrant good box sales, people will stop playing in month or two and all of us will call it a failure then.

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

11/09/12 7:26:36 AM#67
Originally posted by Threatlevel0
Originally posted by Vorch

Let's just be honest....

 

...no MMO will ever be good enough for the forum contributers at MMORPG. Whether it's good/bad, themepark/sandbox, f2p/p2p/b2p, it's simply too cool and mainstream to hate on whatever comes out and then say that the genre should copy or go back to UO/DaoC/EVE/etc.

 

If you guys were given a box of legos, you'd complain that they don't have enough colors for you to have fun. We've become a community that simply can not even attempt to enjoy games before we bash them.

 

 

 

Let's just be realistic...

 

If you were given a box of legos as a grown adult...you'd complain rather than just have fun as well.  Now when I go to Denny's they don't give me a coloring sheet and a few crayons to have fun with anymore.   Why?  Because I expect more and we all know it's just not fun to sit around playing with the same old legos....   Is it wrong to expect more?

How dare you imply that playing with Legos as a grown up isn't fun??!?

 

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6656

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

11/09/12 7:27:25 AM#68

Still plenty to be concerned about. We'll see though but I'm not banking on this being the next big thing. Prove me wrong and I'll be a happy Elder Scrolls player.

1. When I hear the name them park I cringe because we already have had a million and one failures of theme park mmos.

2. They want to cater to both types, mmo players and elder scrolls players. I think if you aren't catering to Elder Scrolls players first and foremost it is a mistake. The Elder Scrolls games have a huge following, we don't need the game dumbed down because the casual mmo player says it is too difficult.

  Vorch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 809

11/09/12 7:28:11 AM#69
Originally posted by Threatlevel0
Originally posted by Vorch

Let's just be honest....

 

...no MMO will ever be good enough for the forum contributers at MMORPG. Whether it's good/bad, themepark/sandbox, f2p/p2p/b2p, it's simply too cool and mainstream to hate on whatever comes out and then say that the genre should copy or go back to UO/DaoC/EVE/etc.

 

If you guys were given a box of legos, you'd complain that they don't have enough colors for you to have fun. We've become a community that simply can not even attempt to enjoy games before we bash them.

 

 

 

Let's just be realistic...

 

If you were given a box of legos as a grown adult...you'd complain rather than just have fun as well.  Now when I go to Denny's they don't give me a coloring sheet and a few crayons to have fun with anymore.   Why?  Because I expect more and we all know it's just not fun to sit around playing with the same old legos....   Is it wrong to expect more?

I know that YOU know the point I was trying to make. Instead you focus on picking apart analogies. Also, mincraft is doing very well, no?

 

However, just incase you do not understand what I was trying to say:

No matter what tools, features, creativity, world, story, sandbox, or themepark comes out in MMO form, no concensus on mmorpg's forums  will EVER be satisfied with ANY of it. EVER.

 

 

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  User Deleted
11/09/12 7:30:17 AM#70
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Siveria

3) I'll be honest here most mmorpg players these days are morons who are bascally like cattle being lead to the slaughterhouse, they'll believe anything that is said about the game, and in general they are easly manipulated fools.

This is also true with anti-hype.  Players bash a game so hard that other people begin to believe it's bad... like cattle to the slaughterhouse.

I'm not sure it's that simple - sure there are plenty of people that ask both  "So what am I supposed to like today?"  and  "What game am I supposed to hate on today?" I think many people genuinely want to find out the truth about a game.  Threads like this muddy the waters.  It's hard to have an intelligent discussion when the thread title questions the gullibility of anyone who may be interested in the game.  The nature of discussions that take this direction only adds to the confusion, and clarifies nothing except the OP's need to rip on a large segment of the MMORPG fanbase and elevate himself as the harbinger of gaming truth.

  neosapience

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/04
Posts: 166

11/09/12 7:34:37 AM#71
Originally posted by MadDemon64

That pretty much sums it up.

And seriously, why does everyone have to call a game a failure if they hate it?  I do not like the Secret World.  The combat system is too complicated for me, but it is still a great game; it's just that the game is not for me.

SWTOR, GW2, etc. are NOT failures, and I doubt that ESO will be a failure either.  That does not  necessarily mean that it will be a good game, but we will have to wait to see how good it is.

 

I hereby propose a change to how peopel talk on these forums.  I propose a "banning" of the practice of calling an MMO a failure, and replace it with the practice of saying that an MMO is not for the person making the post.  Seriously, "failure" when it comes to games is subjective and too polarizing a term; simply stating a game is not for the person who thinks the game is not for them is much simpler and will result in fewer arguments.

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want people to stop calling games failures, then you have to stop calling them a success. You either like something or you don't, you can't say "I don't like it, but it's great", even if you like certain aspects a lot. You either enjoy a game enough to play it or you don't.

 

If any game can be called a failure, it's because it didn't live up to the promises made by its developers. That's why games like SWTOR and GW2 have really pissed people off and (from what I've seen) ESO is going to follow suit.

  jiveturkey12

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/22/04
Posts: 1284

 
OP  11/09/12 7:35:27 AM#72
Originally posted by Vorch

Let's just be honest....

 

...no MMO will ever be good enough for the forum contributers at MMORPG. Whether it's good/bad, themepark/sandbox, f2p/p2p/b2p, it's simply too cool and mainstream to hate on whatever comes out and then say that the genre should copy or go back to UO/DaoC/EVE/etc.

 

If you guys were given a box of legos, you'd complain that they don't have enough colors for you to have fun. We've become a community that simply can not even attempt to enjoy games before we bash them.

 

 

Could you please list all of these Sandbox games that are being released that im not complaining about?

 

Sorry but your lumping all MMO's into one camp, when they arent. We havent seen a AAA sandbox game on the market since SWG. And the only too mildly legitimate sandbox games were Darkfall and Mortal which are both focused on PVP and made by indie developers with limited cash and resouces.

 

So no, we arent complaining about every game and judging them too harshly before they come out. Were complaining about the fact that weve had 10 years with no sandbox games being made by the people in power who have seemingly inifinite amounts of money to make the same themepark style games with different IP's thrown on.

 

You know why no ones impressed with ESO? Because its only defining feature is Three-Faction PVP, which is just ANOTHER thempark element because its not even openworld, its again in instances and again has been down by other games like WAR and so forth. 

 

We want something original and more complex. 

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6510

"I fight so you don't have to."

11/09/12 7:36:39 AM#73
I think more and more people are starting to wise-up and become sceptics. I mean after WAR, AoC and SW:TOR how can people still believe in the WoW/ThemePark model? It worked for WoW and that's it, most other ThemeParks have been shortlived single player games.

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

11/09/12 7:42:26 AM#74
Originally posted by Yamota
I think more and more people are starting to wise-up and become sceptics. I mean after WAR, AoC, GW2 and SW:TOR how can people still believe in the WoW/ThemePark model? It worked for WoW and that's it, most other ThemeParks have been shortlived single player games.

I agree.

I think the pull for this is the TES label, that alone makes people curious.

  User Deleted
11/09/12 7:44:29 AM#75
Originally posted by Yamota
I think more and more people are starting to wise-up and become sceptics. I mean after WAR, AoC and SW:TOR how can people still believe in the WoW/ThemePark model? It worked for WoW and that's it, most other ThemeParks have been shortlived single player games.

As much as some would hate to admit it, any company that wants to turn a profit will most likely steer toward themepark.  

You mention games that supposedly failed, but you don't mention any sandbox games that have overwhelmingly succeeded either.  While we have these supposed failures that you mention all selling a Million boxes and still in operation but on the sandbox side we have ... Darkfall, which is so successful that every character is about to get wiped from existence and EVE which has a whopping 300k subs.  

If you want to blast themeparks, do it because of limited freedom, on-rails progression - but the money argument won't win for sandboxes.  The success/fail ration steers heavily in themeparks favor.   

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1886

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

11/09/12 7:45:55 AM#76

uh look. another hater post.

lets turn this around:

 

aren't you people sick of hating games you dont know? :)

thx for the discussion, i'll join it again once we are able to test the game ourselves.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  spankybus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 1164

"Don''t touch that squirrel''s nuts!" - Willy Wonka

11/09/12 7:49:03 AM#77
Originally posted by jiveturkey12

A new flashy trailer comes out and everyone is ready to give their bodies to Zenimax as tribute to their greatness (in Marketing!)

 

Seriously, does anyone remember SWTOR still? I know weve tried to put the image in the back of our head and really repress all those terrible memories, but lets not forget ESO is still an MMO from a AAA company. The new trailer really does make the game look great, at least in the over-exagerated 500 person armies battling and the whole "Play how you want style", which is very well displayed in a video depicting every Elder Scrolls character ever donning the EXACT Helmet from skyrim in every scene. Seriously isnt this set BEFORE skyrim? Was the Dovakiin the first Hipster who brought that style back a few centuries later?

 

Anyway let me just refresh your memory on how "Good" marketing can make even a crap-piece of a game look amazing. 

 

Exhibit A

 

Also am I the only one who finds it hypocritical that ESO fans like to say us Core Elder Scrolls fans are too dismissive of ESO, yet one video comes out showing the game systems in an over-edited and cinematic fashion (Obviously to increase hype) and everyone goes crazy apeshit over it???

Assuming a game you haven't played is crap is every bit as stupid as assuming its awesome.

Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
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  User Deleted
11/09/12 7:54:08 AM#78

 

Dude, I admit it. I am afraid ...

  derek39

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/06
Posts: 122

i <3 MMO's

11/09/12 7:54:29 AM#79

I think everyone will play it cautious. It is a sub MMO and no one wants to be burned by that. Personally I'll wait until one of my friends get it. Hopefully there's a buddy key.

But I really like GW2. So I'll stick aroun on that for idk how long but I'm predicting a solid few years or more. Plus it's nice to afford an extra nice big case of beer every month if I wanna hahaha.

The 9 minute trailer does make the game look good. But again when checking out mmo's I'm doing it right from now on.

Monster Hunter Veteran since '04

  jiveturkey12

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/22/04
Posts: 1284

 
OP  11/09/12 8:02:50 AM#80
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by Yamota
I think more and more people are starting to wise-up and become sceptics. I mean after WAR, AoC and SW:TOR how can people still believe in the WoW/ThemePark model? It worked for WoW and that's it, most other ThemeParks have been shortlived single player games.

As much as some would hate to admit it, any company that wants to turn a profit will most likely steer toward themepark.  

You mention games that supposedly failed, but you don't mention any sandbox games that have overwhelmingly succeeded either.  While we have these supposed failures that you mention all selling a Million boxes and still in operation but on the sandbox side we have ... Darkfall, which is so successful that every character is about to get wiped from existence and EVE which has a whopping 300k subs.  

If you want to blast themeparks, do it because of limited freedom, on-rails progression - but the money argument won't win for sandboxes.  The success/fail ration steers heavily in themeparks favor.   

Marketing Trends are ok to Follow if your a developer.

 

Originally posted by spankybus

Assuming a game you haven't played is crap is every bit as stupid as assuming its awesome.

Not ok to follow as a consumer.

 

So companies can base their entire development off statistics that accountants THEY hire tell them is correct. But I cant make the same assertions about the games quality because why? I dont have the foresight? I dont have the mathematical ability to determine the games failure based off the number of failed Themepark games that now sit on low sub numbers and even lower ratings on review sites? I cant make a judgement of the games success based off the information that has been given to us about the games core systems and their contradictory affiliation with a successful IP?

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