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Originally posted by Karteli

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Originally posted by DavisFlight WoW never had 10 million subs. They count the China players as subs for some moronic reason.   In any case, this isn't really a good thing, just shows how far the MMO genre has fallen.

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It helps "pad" their numbers by 250% or so, even though Asians are not subscribers, and buy into "anytime" minutes.

I'd rather have their system personally, and just pay for the time spent.  Only play 10 hours this month?  That will be $0.60, please come again!

 

Unless there is a huge shift in gamers, I'd doubt D4 (if they dare release it) will outsell D3.  The original classics (D1 & D2) were superior in every way.

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Do you even know what a "subscription" is?

In this case a subscription is where a customer pays money for a service for a set amount of time.

In US and Europe that set amount of time is a month.

In parts of Asia that set amount of time is an hour.

So, whats the difference?

Lastly, Asia is more than just China and not all Asian countries pay hourly. Your argument comes off as dismissive and racist.

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

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Originally posted by Karteli

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Originally posted by DavisFlight WoW never had 10 million subs. They count the China players as subs for some moronic reason.   In any case, this isn't really a good thing, just shows how far the MMO genre has fallen.

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It helps "pad" their numbers by 250% or so, even though Asians are not subscribers, and buy into "anytime" minutes.

 

I'd rather have their system personally, and just pay for the time spent.  Only play 10 hours this month?  That will be $0.60, please come again!

 

Unless there is a huge shift in gamers, I'd doubt D4 (if they dare release it) will outsell D3.  The original classics (D1 & D2) were superior in every way.

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So, Asians arent subscribers because they dont pay monthly? Is that it?

 

Do you even know what a "subscription" is?

In this case a subscription is where a customer pays money for a service for a set amount of time.

In US and Europe that set amount of time is a month.

In parts of Asia that set amount of time is an hour.

So, whats the difference?

Lastly, Asia is more than just China and not all Asian countries pay hourly. Your argument comes off as dismissive and racist.

"Hurr stop trying to treat different business models in China differently for objective evaluation of datapoints which result into less favourable results for my favourite game. Why cant you just ignore and overlook them?! Thats racist!"

We could start at the part where China has no free trial, because trying WoWs latest expansion and content is already cheap enough anyways due to their business model.

Or the lack of a boxprice and free upgrade to the latest expansion for anyone new, with minor fee for setting up a new game account.

Or the much cheaper price to return to Wow for anyone left with credits on their account oposed to expansion fees and upfront payment of 15$ for a whole month in the West.

Of the comparatively lower hourly price of WoW in China i.e. compared to other MMORPGs like Aion.

Just like most WoW fans dismiss "active accounts" in every F2P title because people may not pay 15$ per month and dont buy a game box.

But hey that can be brushed of with the usual "HURR THATS RACISM AGAINST ASIANS!!! Stop dissmissing my Chinese numbers when I try to pretend being objective"-card too I guess? Because we are not talking about Korean or Asian MMORPGs were you guys more than apparantly have no problem to dissmis several tenmillions of MMO player for the same reasons.

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by DavisFlight

WoW never had 10 million subs. They count the China players as subs for some moronic reason.

 

In any case, this isn't really a good thing, just shows how far the MMO genre has fallen.

It helps "pad" their numbers by 250% or so, even though Asians are not subscribers, and buy into "anytime" minutes.

I'd rather have their system personally, and just pay for the time spent.  Only play 10 hours this month?  That will be $0.60, please come again!

 

Unless there is a huge shift in gamers, I'd doubt D4 (if they dare release it) will outsell D3.  The original classics (D1 & D2) were superior in every way.

That is only your opinion.

The new skill run system in D3 is much more fun to me than the old skill tree in D1 & 2. You can change and try different builds much easier, and there many more combinations of what you can do.

Obviously 10M is a very high bar to beat, and D4 is not announced. If it is made 10 years from now (took 12 to make D3), who knows what the world is like in 10 years.

However, an expansion is announced. We can see whether it sells well. Personally, i think it will sell as well as WOW expansions. You obviously may disagree but we will know who is right when it is out.

Congrats to Blizz for sure.

As much as I hate the new talent trees (if you can still call them that), and think pet battles is absolutely retarded...

I actually don't mind the Pandaren and the new zones w/ Chinese flavor.

And no one has yet come close to matching the Blizzard/WoW dungeon experience.

I just freaking love running dungeons in WoW on my Ele / Resto Shaman.

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by lotaparty

Originally posted by madazz

Good for blizz!

D3 isn't an MMO though. So doesn't matter.

D3 failure is a possible sign where blizz is headed . 

 

From everyones favorite tool.... http://beta.xfire.com/games

 

5: Guild Wars 2 - 14721 hours

6: Diablo 3 - 14282 hours.

One 6 month old game and not an MMO and one 2 month old supposedly an MMO. Interesting.

Actually D3 numbers went up after 1.05, which is a very good patch. My take is that the playstyle of D3 is close enough to a MMO that it is played like one. I think it is the 3rd if you only count MMOs (#1 wow, #2 GW2, #3 D3).

It is kind of interesting when D3 has  a lot LESS content than typicall MMO, although part of the dungeon content is random.

Originally posted by Xiaoki

In US and Europe that set amount of time is a month.

In parts of Asia that set amount of time is an hour.

So, whats the difference?

Probably 10+ fewer dollars spent per month, on average, per "subscriber" in china.

There's a reason why Blizzard tries hard to make chinese subscribers equal to US/EU subscribers.  It makes things look and sound better.

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Plus, its playstyle is close enough to a MMO that personally i don't view MMOs very differently than D3 type ARPG.

Well, the reason of 90% of flame on both forums in a nutshell :)

Flame on!

:)

Probably. I am sure this argument will be continued once Marvel Heroes is out. At least D3 does not even attempt to try to be a MMO. MH is essentially Diablo + Marvel super heroes, and framed as a MMO.

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Originally posted by FrodoFragins

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Originally posted by Xiaoki In US and Europe that set amount of time is a month. In parts of Asia that set amount of time is an hour. So, whats the difference?

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Probably 10+ fewer dollars spent per month, on average, per "subscriber" in china.

 

There's a reason why Blizzard tries hard to make chinese subscribers equal to US/EU subscribers.  It makes things look and sound better.

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With current exchange rates Europeans pay $16 a month. Do Americans no longer count as subscribers because we dont pay as much as Europeans.

Australians pay more too.

In Taiwan they pay around $10 a month, do they count? Is $10 a month enough to be counted as a subscriber?

In South Korea the average MMO monthly fee is around $20. But that doesnt matter because Chinese pay pennies per hour which means ALL Asians pay pennies per hour.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by QSatu
Isn't this data from end of September? They already said they got to 10kk subs 2 weeks after MoP release. Did they keep them? who knows..

Looking at Zfire, it looks like they stabilized ahead of where it was before MoP. Plus investors are raving about the 3rd qt report.

Your zfire site seems to have closed. You should however look at xfire, where WoW dropped from above 11k during MOPs launch to below 7k now in November after about one and a half month. Or from the around and above 11k back in September, July and May and higher before (before GW2s recent public beta and launch went off, after which WoW totally unrelated to GW2 went down to below 6k player due to "players downloading patches" and "bugs in xfire" for weeks).

But i guess that site will ever remain only "relevant" when it shows a decline for any other game thst wasnt  released by Blizzard.

Or just stop trying to argue in your favor with missleading or false claims.

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

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Originally posted by FrodoFragins

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Originally posted by Xiaoki In US and Europe that set amount of time is a month. In parts of Asia that set amount of time is an hour. So, whats the difference?

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Probably 10+ fewer dollars spent per month, on average, per "subscriber" in china.

 

 

There's a reason why Blizzard tries hard to make chinese subscribers equal to US/EU subscribers.  It makes things look and sound better.

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So, its just the amount they pay? We pay more so only we count? Is that it?

 

With current exchange rates Europeans pay $16 a month. Do Americans no longer count as subscribers because we dont pay as much as Europeans.

Australians pay more too.

In Taiwan they pay around $10 a month, do they count? Is $10 a month enough to be counted as a subscriber?

In South Korea the average MMO monthly fee is around $20. But that doesnt matter because Chinese pay pennies per hour which means ALL Asians pay pennies per hour.

Exactly. In fact, just use Blizz way of counting. It has been consistent.

They were done to 9M by whatever means they counted, and then back up to over 10M. Also look at the financials. Are they making boat-load of money on WOW and D3? Yes.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by lotaparty

Originally posted by madazz

Good for blizz!

D3 isn't an MMO though. So doesn't matter.

D3 failure is a possible sign where blizz is headed . 

 

From everyones favorite tool.... http://beta.xfire.com/games

 

5: Guild Wars 2 - 14721 hours

6: Diablo 3 - 14282 hours.

One 6 month old game and not an MMO and one 2 month old supposedly an MMO. Interesting.

Actually D3 numbers went up after 1.05, which is a very good patch. My take is that the playstyle of D3 is close enough to a MMO that it is played like one. I think it is the 3rd if you only count MMOs (#1 wow, #2 GW2, #3 D3).

It is kind of interesting when D3 has  a lot LESS content than typicall MMO, although part of the dungeon content is random.

 

The sad gamer that I am I've watched Xfire over the past couple of months and D3 was slipping quite heavily and went out of the top 10 for a while but the recent changes have seen it rebound so I expect it to take GW2 soon, maybe next week. I've held of buying D3 but have watched the forums to see if the improvements are welcomed by the community and its seems it yes, paragon levels, monster power, better drop rate seem to be turning D3 around and when they add PvP I expect those Xfire numbers to shoot up. I agree its very close to modern MMO's in style and its interesting how its holding its own without PvP what a strong franchise Diablo is.

Yay, some more numbers to argue about!

Zzzzzz

Originally posted by Psychow

I've been enjoying the MoP expansion. Much more enjoyable than my time in GW2 and the repeating "dynamic" events.

 

I've been enjoying Guild Wars 2. Much more than my time in MoP and the childish "pokemon battles" mixed with fluffy kung-fu panda bears.

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

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Originally posted by FrodoFragins

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Originally posted by Xiaoki In US and Europe that set amount of time is a month. In parts of Asia that set amount of time is an hour. So, whats the difference?

---

Probably 10+ fewer dollars spent per month, on average, per "subscriber" in china.

 

 

There's a reason why Blizzard tries hard to make chinese subscribers equal to US/EU subscribers.  It makes things look and sound better.

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So, its just the amount they pay? We pay more so only we count? Is that it?

 

With current exchange rates Europeans pay $16 a month. Do Americans no longer count as subscribers because we dont pay as much as Europeans.

Australians pay more too.

In Taiwan they pay around $10 a month, do they count? Is $10 a month enough to be counted as a subscriber?

In South Korea the average MMO monthly fee is around $20. But that doesnt matter because Chinese pay pennies per hour which means ALL Asians pay pennies per hour.

What are you arguing for?

It's about comparing Apples to Apples.  Not counting every subscription as being equal because it sounds better to say 10 million subscribers and let some people assume they all pay the same.

Grats Blizzard! Quality wins!

Funny thing is folks, when a game like WoW counts players from China it is getting bashed, like the players there did not count! But when "their" game launch and get players in China the say "hallelujah"!

Similar to that x-fire thingy, when their game have high x-fire number the /yell it all over the internet. And when the numbers get low..... then all of a sudden the x-fire numbers are not worth anything and should not be mentioned....  Funny!

Again, Big Gratz Blizzard!

Originally posted by Clawzon

Grats Blizzard! Quality wins!

 

Funny thing is folks, when a game like WoW counts players from China it is getting bashed, like the players there did not count! But when "their" game launch and get players in China the say "hallelujah"!

Funny because its usuallly exactly the opposite way around. "hallelujah 10 Million WoW player" world wide "your Western released game only has 1 or 2 Million, so weak doesnt even come close your game is inferior"

But then when an Eastern released  games comes along, or people ask to compare games in context of a region,  WoW player cry "Ok Eastern player does not count lets only look at Western numbers but assume WoW has over 5 Million Western player even though we have no evidence its even close to that!"

Actually it always happens like that. No actually lately they tend to call people who ask the WoW fans to be more objective, less deliberatly ignorant and stop biasedly comparing a global released games "numbers" to a recently "Western only" released game only to tear and mock the later, "racists".

See 8 years of still existing hard to deny forumthreads whenever a game with more than 300k player other than WoW released its numbers after launch and WoW fans rush into their forum to deny their success usually ironical to  your bottom ignorant claim citing xfire even claiming other companies would lie based on xfire or when WoW released its numbers and they tear over the latest Western released games not coming close to their global ones.

Similar to that x-fire thingy, when their game have high x-fire number the /yell it all over the internet. And when the numbers get low..... then all of a sudden the x-fire numbers are not worth anything and should not be mentioned....  Funny!

Yeah like whenever WoW show a decline (speak always since ever xfire it self stopped gaining popularity for about 5 years now) and someone points it out, its broken, or WoW has a patch that somehow permanently makes xfire stop counting WoW player, or it was always inaccurate and whenever any other game shows a similar or even weaker decline it must be spamed into other games forums and yelled all over the internet by sore WoW fans permanently.

See every thread about WoWs xfire trend in the WoW forum and any quote of xfire by rabid WoW fans in other games threads after they game got released.

The level of your denial is frightening.

Basically the majority of the market is still saying 'We want themeparks'.

Whether someone personally likes those types of games or not is irrevelent.

Originally posted by Sukiyaki

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by QSatu
Isn't this data from end of September? They already said they got to 10kk subs 2 weeks after MoP release. Did they keep them? who knows..

Looking at Zfire, it looks like they stabilized ahead of where it was before MoP. Plus investors are raving about the 3rd qt report.

Your zfire site seems to have closed. You should however look at xfire, where WoW dropped from above 11k during MOPs launch to below 7k now in November after about one and a half month. Or from the around and above 11k back in September, July and May and higher before (before GW2s recent public beta and launch went off, after which WoW totally unrelated to GW2 went down to below 6k player due to "players downloading patches" and "bugs in xfire" for weeks).

But i guess that site will ever remain only "relevant" when it shows a decline for any other game thst wasnt  released by Blizzard.

 

Or just stop trying to argue in your favor with missleading or false claims.

Or we could go with GW2 who went from 98K hours played to just over 14K hours played in a little over two months.

Originally posted by Underbridge

 

Or we could go with GW2 who went from 98K hours played to just over 14K hours played in a little over two months.

I don't want to compare 'GW2' and 'WoW' since they are vastly different in terms of payment model but I agree with this post.

The 'mid level' area of 25-70 (aka out of starting area but before Orr) is a wasteland for a lot of people.

Heck there's a thread about 'solving' this problem in the official forums and loads of people are trying to figure out a good way to solve it.

I think the 'cross realm zones' like WoW is a brilliant idea for GW2 right now.