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Guild Wars 2

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General Discussion  » I dont understand why some people feel cheated

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87 posts found
  Meridion

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 1502

None of you understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!

11/09/12 4:21:11 AM#41
Originally posted by bcbully

60 bucks gives yeh 300 hours. How can you beat that.

 

There is no way someone could make the argument that 300 hours of entertainment isn't worth $60. From that stand point you can't be wrong. I guess people let the hype leading into cause them to lose sight of the golden rule. "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is."

With LotRO Lifetime Account... =P

Got me 292 days (=3504 hours) of gameplay for 150 bucks, all expansions for free via cash shop points and still running...

M

  User Deleted
11/09/12 5:04:39 AM#42
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

The great thing of GW2 is that you never know what you gonna get from your play session.

Reminds me in beta, when I wanted to run from Black Citadel to Divinity's Reach just to see how much time it would take (without using the Asura gates, obviously)... I ended stopping for dozens of events, and it took me like 6 hours for that trip :)
  Bigdaddyx

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1829

11/09/12 5:07:37 AM#43
Originally posted by kishe
Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.

I feel cheated because of this....

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Perpetual-bar-brawl-what-happened-to-it

I hate it when devs make false promises. Only difference is that FC not only made false promises but went one step ahead and printed it on back of the box. Devs need to stop fooling their player base.

 

  dariuszp

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 187

11/09/12 5:10:07 AM#44
Originally posted by kishe
Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.

They bought game because of some internet evangelist and their imagination was running wild. They they colide with hard reality. Something like that.

People who knew what to expect got what we paid for and I'm glad I did. Everyone else - screw them. 

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2669

11/09/12 5:18:38 AM#45
Originally posted by dariuszp
Originally posted by kishe
Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.

They bought game because of some internet evangelist and their imagination was running wild. They they colide with hard reality. Something like that.

People who knew what to expect got what we paid for and I'm glad I did. Everyone else - screw them

Actually thank them for paying and not using bandwidth (although bandwidth is pennies).

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  User Deleted
11/09/12 5:28:51 AM#46
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by dariuszp
Originally posted by kishe
Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.

They bought game because of some internet evangelist and their imagination was running wild. They they colide with hard reality. Something like that.

People who knew what to expect got what we paid for and I'm glad I did. Everyone else - screw them

Actually thank them for paying and not using bandwidth (although bandwidth is pennies).

Hehe yeah... actually, the more... how to put that without getting infracted? "funny"? - actually, the more "funny" ones are those who were already bashing the game big time during the whole beta, and STILL bought the game... I guess to be able to complain more about a game they already knew was not for them. I thank those people for giving their money to ANet and for supporting the game I enjoy - they know who they are ;-)

  User Deleted
11/09/12 5:30:02 AM#47
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by kishe
Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.

I feel cheated because of this....

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Perpetual-bar-brawl-what-happened-to-it

I hate it when devs make false promises. Only difference is that FC not only made false promises but went one step ahead and printed it on back of the box. Devs need to stop fooling their player base.

 

Thats pure gold right there.

First theres a guy asking simple thing "where is this feature"

then comes forum troll coling hijacking his thread "halloween is coming"

then comes his alter egos and viral marketers "im so excited,way to go colin"

then people are like "amazing Anet"

and soon people are like "but where is those bar fights?? "

 

  Vunak23

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

11/09/12 5:32:34 AM#48

While it is a great thing you got a decent amount of time from the money you spent. MMO's and Single player games can't be looked at in the same light. Here is another reason the B2P model shouldn't be done. 

A single player game has a set amount of entertainment it has to offer. Once you hit that cap, the game is over and finished. You feel satisfied with your purchase because that is all you expected out of the game in the first place. An aside to occupy time with an interactive story.

MMO's are different in nature as they are a lasting enjoyment. When people drop money on an MMO, they expect it to occupy there time for a long period of time. Thats what the additional service costs are for. Now in GW2's defence they don't charge the premium so they have no obligation to extend your time in the game (B2P/F2P models have that luxury). Which is where I believe the "I feel cheated" sentiment is coming from. 

If you look at the trend of MMO's, most in the last few years should have gone B2P or F2P to start. Thats why we are seeing them change business models now. The MMO's of today haven't been able to justify the subscription cost because they don't have the capability to sustain a players interest for long periods of time, at a time. Content can't keep up. 

Whether we will see MMO's of old coming back that justify the subscription cost is yet to be seen. But I think with games like ArcheAge, WoD, Elder Scrolls Online (renewed faith after the video seen yesterday),  and possibly EQ:Next from what Smedley has said of it (not that I believe a word he says)....we may see a return of premium AAA titles that do infact justify that sub price. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  StarI

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 827

11/09/12 5:53:05 AM#49
Originally posted by grimal

This is pretty accurate.  I guess the biggest obstacle for many to overcome is that this is a very casual MMO.  So casual and lightweight that it blurs the line between coop multiplay and MMO.  

Price has never been an issue with this game.  I think people would have gladly payed more than $60 for something with a bit more meat at its core.  

It's a good fun video game but it is like night and day difference from classic MMOs (such as EQ, UO, SWG).

This is like an MMO appetizer....a poo-poo platter.  Has a little of this, little of that, some of this.  Tastes really good but it's not that filling.  More of a sampling of some aspects of the genre.

 

A poo-poo platter,

lol.

  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3207

Veni, Vidi, Converti

11/09/12 6:00:58 AM#50
Originally posted by chryses

I have got my monies worth and just taking a break to play XCOM and that is why I love GW2. I will definitely go back to it but not pressured to use up sub.

As for feeling cheated I personally think its a generation thing. When I started playing games we used 51/4 inch floppies and you were winning if the game even worked.  Then you had to work with a monochrome 256x screen with beeps as sound effects.  I know where games have come from and I really really appreciate the modern games out there.

If you haven't started from the beginning then you can feel cheated as you always wan't to be dazzled.  I think older gamers are more appreciative because we know how crap games were!

However, I do feel games have lost that old school feeling that came with Elite, Master of Orion 2, Bards Tale (1980's), Wizadry fallout, Baldurs Gate, Privateer etc.  They seemed to be closely aligned to D&D or role playing games and had that intense feeling.  Today games are more like smack a mole.

Best post I've read in a while.

I think with mmorpgs - if you sink 300 hours into a game, you may have got your money, but if you end it there, you feel that those 300 hours did not meet the expectation of a mmorpg, that is 3 hrs, 30 hrs, 300 hrs, 3000 hrs - the virtual world is always interesting in some way.

  jondifool

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 1122

11/09/12 6:41:52 AM#51
Originally posted by kishe
I dont understand why some people feel cheated ?
Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.

 

What ever players reason for being disappointe is could differ alot amd some well feel cheated because they reasonable was lead to belive that the game could deliver what they expected. 

I did also get my 60 dollars worth of entertainment. And i don't feel cheated, but i feel disapointed so far. Mostly because the type of gamer i am, did actual get a much better game from GW1 and nothing prepared me for that.

I still have hope that in the end GW2 could get there where i get my expectation satisfied. But it require alot work and a change of focus, back to some of the qualities that was aboundant in GW1.

 

 

read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  mazut

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/08
Posts: 833

11/09/12 6:50:29 AM#52
Originally posted by jondifool
Originally posted by kishe
I dont understand why some people feel cheated ?
Considering I paid the price of an normal singleplayer game and got to 300 hours played before said "Done!" I feel I've gotten my 60 dollars worth of entertainment.

 

What ever players reason for being disappointe is could differ alot amd some well feel cheated because they reasonable was lead to belive that the game could deliver what they expected. 

I did also get my 60 dollars worth of entertainment. And i don't feel cheated, but i feel disapointed so far. Mostly because the type of gamer i am, did actual get a much better game from GW1 and nothing prepared me for that.

I still have hope that in the end GW2 could get there where i get my expectation satisfied. But it require alot work and a change of focus, back to some of the qualities that was aboundant in GW1.

 

 

I can only agree whit that statement partially, the PvP side. I certainly miss TA, RA, GvG and even FA and QJ. I like WvW, but still think it will be good for all if they implement instanced small team PvPvE and more PvP game types. Let them build their E-Sport, but I guess most players dont really care about this and just want bigger variety.

Also disapointed how Dungeons turned to be.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2669

11/09/12 6:53:29 AM#53
Originally posted by Vunak23

While it is a great thing you got a decent amount of time from the money you spent. MMO's and Single player games can't be looked at in the same light. Here is another reason the B2P model shouldn't be done. 

A single player game has a set amount of entertainment it has to offer. Once you hit that cap, the game is over and finished. You feel satisfied with your purchase because that is all you expected out of the game in the first place. An aside to occupy time with an interactive story.

MMO's are different in nature as they are a lasting enjoyment. When people drop money on an MMO, they expect it to occupy there time for a long period of time. Thats what the additional service costs are for. Now in GW2's defence they don't charge the premium so they have no obligation to extend your time in the game (B2P/F2P models have that luxury). Which is where I believe the "I feel cheated" sentiment is coming from. 

If you look at the trend of MMO's, most in the last few years should have gone B2P or F2P to start. Thats why we are seeing them change business models now. The MMO's of today haven't been able to justify the subscription cost because they don't have the capability to sustain a players interest for long periods of time, at a time. Content can't keep up. 

Whether we will see MMO's of old coming back that justify the subscription cost is yet to be seen. But I think with games like ArcheAge, WoD, Elder Scrolls Online (renewed faith after the video seen yesterday),  and possibly EQ:Next from what Smedley has said of it (not that I believe a word he says)....we may see a return of premium AAA titles that do infact justify that sub price. 

I think you are confusing cause and effect.

To justify a sub these days, games need to keep players playing all their free time every day. They also need to release content constantly.

Once a player stops playing a sub game, getting back will require a payment. That payment is a barrier. GW2 it is just a question of hitting the shortcut, you have nothing to lose.

In GW2, in a 2-3 hour session, I'm actually playing close to those 2-3 hours. In other games there will be much more waiting and running/riding around.

Additonally GW2 seems to be releasing content/special events at a steady space most sub MMOs don't exactly match - halloween, now lost shores event/permanent zone/end game dungeon, then wintersday... (In GW1 they also celebrated the Chinese new year with the Cantha introduction, but in GW2 there is no Cantha yet)..

Loads of chances for people log in and enjoy new content, spend some money in the cash shop.

So while they have no obligation to extend your play time, they actually do. Except they do by releasing new stuff not by wasting your time.

Really, people should actually time how much time they spend in games like WoW actually playing and how much is moving around/waiting/organizing groups.

Even in WoW that keeps a huge player base, it would be interesting to know how many actually play year long and those that return every few months.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Vunak23

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

11/09/12 12:44:21 PM#54
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Vunak23

While it is a great thing you got a decent amount of time from the money you spent. MMO's and Single player games can't be looked at in the same light. Here is another reason the B2P model shouldn't be done. 

A single player game has a set amount of entertainment it has to offer. Once you hit that cap, the game is over and finished. You feel satisfied with your purchase because that is all you expected out of the game in the first place. An aside to occupy time with an interactive story.

MMO's are different in nature as they are a lasting enjoyment. When people drop money on an MMO, they expect it to occupy there time for a long period of time. Thats what the additional service costs are for. Now in GW2's defence they don't charge the premium so they have no obligation to extend your time in the game (B2P/F2P models have that luxury). Which is where I believe the "I feel cheated" sentiment is coming from. 

If you look at the trend of MMO's, most in the last few years should have gone B2P or F2P to start. Thats why we are seeing them change business models now. The MMO's of today haven't been able to justify the subscription cost because they don't have the capability to sustain a players interest for long periods of time, at a time. Content can't keep up. 

Whether we will see MMO's of old coming back that justify the subscription cost is yet to be seen. But I think with games like ArcheAge, WoD, Elder Scrolls Online (renewed faith after the video seen yesterday),  and possibly EQ:Next from what Smedley has said of it (not that I believe a word he says)....we may see a return of premium AAA titles that do infact justify that sub price. 

I think you are confusing cause and effect.

To justify a sub these days, games need to keep players playing all their free time every day. They also need to release content constantly.

Not exactly. To Justify a sub, a game needs to be dropping content left and right (correct) which the only game to do that so far is RIFT. The game needs to basically stay ahead of its hardcore crowd (no newer MMO has accomplished this). An alternative is having content that doesn't need to be updated regurlarly because its player made (building homes, crafting, sieging/RvR etc.) . But we haven't seen a game like that from a AAA studio in about 10 years. 

Once a player stops playing a sub game, getting back will require a payment. That payment is a barrier. GW2 it is just a question of hitting the shortcut, you have nothing to lose.

If a game had what I posted above it wouldn't be an issue at all because there would be adequet reason to stay with the game or come back to the game if a player left. The reasons people don't resub to games now, is because the reason they left is still sitting there at the games login screen.

In GW2, in a 2-3 hour session, I'm actually playing close to those 2-3 hours. In other games there will be much more waiting and running/riding around.

I dont see what your trying to get at here. When I play an MMO I am actually playing it as well. But this is an arguement for instant gratification that the  younger crowd seems to feel entitled to over the older crowd that understand that a world was created for them to explore and enjoy. 

Additonally GW2 seems to be releasing content/special events at a steady space most sub MMOs don't exactly match - halloween, now lost shores event/permanent zone/end game dungeon, then wintersday... (In GW1 they also celebrated the Chinese new year with the Cantha introduction, but in GW2 there is no Cantha yet)..

Just a plain false statement. I don't know how many sub MMO's you have played, but I have played just about every one of them out since 1999 and 90% of them have Holiday events. There are a lot of sub based MMO's that just have flat out more content than GW2 out the box. And the game that is dropping the most content consistently is a sub based game, RIFT (nobody has matched there content drops yet). 

Loads of chances for people log in and enjoy new content, spend some money in the cash shop.

With all the free trials and limited access passes (Level ?? for free depending on the game), and veteran return promotions ( I get them daily just about), There are more than enough opportunities for the player to go back to the game and check out the new content. 

So while they have no obligation to extend your play time, they actually do. Except they do by releasing new stuff not by wasting your time.

I dont see how any content drop could be considered "wasting your time"

Really, people should actually time how much time they spend in games like WoW actually playing and how much is moving around/waiting/organizing groups.

Considering WoW is pretty instant gratification, I would go as far to say that WoW is easier to get into and do something than GW2 is. They have LFR for pug raiding even. 

Even in WoW that keeps a huge player base, it would be interesting to know how many actually play year long and those that return every few months.

Considering how many players WoW has one could take a stab and say that most of them stay subed or they would have numbers dipping and rising every month instead of a steady subscriber base. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10942

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

11/09/12 1:02:18 PM#55

There are people who are going to be disappointed no matter what is provided by the game. There are people who are going to feel cheated no matter what. It is because those people feel cheated and are disappointed in general, and they are just looking for a game to blame for the cheated/disappointed feelings.

There are people who don't really understand or don't bother putting effort into finding out what a game is about, and so they're going to be disappointed that a game's features don't mesh with the features they assumed existed before they bought the game. For instance, the game isn't a sandbox, or other players can just walk up to you and kill you. The odds of these players not being happy is nearly 0.

Finally, you have people who didn't play the game and who just don't like the game, the company or they're just looking to waste some time. This is probably the smallest category, but in my mind, they are the most vocal.

I think most of the posters on these forums fall into those three categories. Of course, it's not really possible to determine if someone does or does not fall into one of those categories, but that's how it's setup in my head.
:-)

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5078

11/09/12 1:21:53 PM#56

What's not to understand? Most gamers to not spend their time on forums discussing games adnausium. They think "Oh look, GW2...I've heard a lot about this game." And a really astute consumer will even go to google and search GW2 review

https://www.google.com/search?q=gw2%20review&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

None of these reviews mirror what many people are now saying only a few months later. They say nothing of what a lot of players experienced 2 weeks, a month 2 months later.

To me, this whole topic is a rhetorical question aimed at blaming the player who feels cheated to make them think it's their own fault for not liking the game and/or failing to do their research (which would have not revealed anything different anyway.)

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2555

11/09/12 1:29:12 PM#57
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

What's not to understand? Most gamers to not spend their time on forums discussing games adnausium. They think "Oh look, GW2...I've heard a lot about this game." And a really astute consumer will even go to google and search GW2 review

https://www.google.com/search?q=gw2%20review&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

None of these reviews mirror what many people are now saying only a few months later. They say nothing of what a lot of players experienced 2 weeks, a month 2 months later.

To me, this whole topic is a rhetorical question aimed at blaming the player who feels cheated to make them think it's their own fault for not liking the game and/or failing to do their research (which would have not revealed anything different anyway.)

2 weeks? Maybe the people who rushed to 80 in 2 weeks had a complaints because they missed the forest when looking at a tree (think myopic vision here).

 

It is not rhetorical GG, each game plays a little different and you have to adapt to enjoy it. I mean you don't play an MMO the way you play an FPS game, do you? I think people want an expected type of game play, if they don't get it they complain rather than adapt. It is the nature of the beast.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5078

11/09/12 1:32:51 PM#58
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

What's not to understand? Most gamers to not spend their time on forums discussing games adnausium. They think "Oh look, GW2...I've heard a lot about this game." And a really astute consumer will even go to google and search GW2 review

https://www.google.com/search?q=gw2%20review&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

None of these reviews mirror what many people are now saying only a few months later. They say nothing of what a lot of players experienced 2 weeks, a month 2 months later.

To me, this whole topic is a rhetorical question aimed at blaming the player who feels cheated to make them think it's their own fault for not liking the game and/or failing to do their research (which would have not revealed anything different anyway.)

2 weeks? Maybe the people who rushed to 80 in 2 weeks had a complaints because they missed the forest when looking at a tree (think myopic vision here).

 

It is not rhetorical GG, each game plays a little different and you have to adapt to enjoy it. I mean you don't play an MMO the way you play an FPS game, do you? I think people want an expected type of game play, if they don't get it they complain rather than adapt. It is the nature of the beast.

I agree, 2 weeks is too soon, I'm simply repeating what I've seen posted here. I stopped playing it hard when my IRL buddies stopped after about a month. But I still think the OP's question was not asked with the intention of truly trying to understand where this notion of feeling cheated is comming from but rather to identify where such peopel are "playing it wrong" so to speak.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10942

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

11/09/12 2:17:53 PM#59


Originally posted by GeezerGamer
What's not to understand? Most gamers to not spend their time on forums discussing games adnausium. They think "Oh look, GW2...I've heard a lot about this game." And a really astute consumer will even go to google and search GW2 review

https://www.google.com/search?q=gw2%20review&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

None of these reviews mirror what many people are now saying only a few months later. They say nothing of what a lot of players experienced 2 weeks, a month 2 months later.

To me, this whole topic is a rhetorical question aimed at blaming the player who feels cheated to make them think it's their own fault for not liking the game and/or failing to do their research (which would have not revealed anything different anyway.)




In the general population of gamers? Yeah, you're right. Here? No, nobody here gets a pass.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5078

11/09/12 2:25:25 PM#60
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by GeezerGamer
What's not to understand? Most gamers to not spend their time on forums discussing games adnausium. They think "Oh look, GW2...I've heard a lot about this game." And a really astute consumer will even go to google and search GW2 review

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=gw2%20review&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

None of these reviews mirror what many people are now saying only a few months later. They say nothing of what a lot of players experienced 2 weeks, a month 2 months later.

To me, this whole topic is a rhetorical question aimed at blaming the player who feels cheated to make them think it's their own fault for not liking the game and/or failing to do their research (which would have not revealed anything different anyway.)




In the general population of gamers? Yeah, you're right. Here? No, nobody here gets a pass.

 

I got a laugh out of that. But I also cannot argue. 

so,

Touche

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

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