Originally posted by SirFubar

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by remyburke
For me, it took the removal of the trinity to make me realize how much it's needed in a themepark MMO. Dungeons in GW2 are a fucking mess.

I only did AC story mode once and I am still recovering from the PTSD of it....are they all that bad?  I have been toying with trying one again.

Nope msot of them are very easy, you jsut got to pick the right path to do.  Still alot of the encounters are nothing but a rez, release and return zerg strategy but not to the extent that AC was.  CoF is the easiest and can be ran with no deaths on a certain path.

Why such a lazy design?  Absolutely the worst thing you could do to the dungeon experience.

That's what happen when you play in PuGs or with people who doesn't know how to play or even learn how to properly do the dungeons. No offense but it's the truth. Its not the design that is lazy but the players. Some dungeons can be very challenging if you don't use this stupid "strat" of rez, release and return. I bet that most of the players don't even know how to use the combo mechanics properly.

No offense. but in doing that one dungeon I was turned off from doing any of them.  So, how can I develop a strategy for them if I didnt find it enjoyable in the least?

If you make it so painful an experience, how is that not bad design?

Originally posted by aionix
I think it may be the time for the sandbox to rise.  Personally I stillenjoy GW2, but thats because I'm a casual player nowadays.  What I see happening in MMO's is a shift in market focus.  GW2 may be the last successful themepark MMO, as the industry starts shifting to more sandbox player driven games (the scrapping of EQNext anyone?!).  Just like the fall of console gaming and high graphic linear AAA video games, I believe the themepark MMO is on the way out.

The problm is that everyone who makes Sandbox's feel that FFA PvP is the only thing that matters.  Give me a PvE Sandbox and I'll gladly try it out if it has solid features and good production quality.  Basically I want a Triple A Sandbox with non raid centric PvE being the focus, but that will never happen so as is I am stuck with themeparks or hybrids.

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by remyburke
For me, it took the removal of the trinity to make me realize how much it's needed in a themepark MMO. Dungeons in GW2 are a fucking mess.

I only did AC story mode once and I am still recovering from the PTSD of it....are they all that bad?  I have been toying with trying one again.

Nope msot of them are very easy, you jsut got to pick the right path to do.  Still alot of the encounters are nothing but a rez, release and return zerg strategy but not to the extent that AC was.  CoF is the easiest and can be ran with no deaths on a certain path.

Why such a lazy design?  Absolutely the worst thing you could do to the dungeon experience.

I said so as much in between all my fanboish posts about the game.  What the GW2 needs is first a dungeon finder (disagree with me all you want but its the only reason why I stuck with WoW thoughout all of BC/WotLK) and a way to normalize agro instead of playing ping pong with the mob.

Originally posted by cybertrucker

I keep reading these types of posts, and it makes me glad I'm a casual gamer these days , on the nights I get to play its only for 2 to 3 hours, a few nights might be longer. Which means the game comes at a slower rate. A month and I'm only level 36. The game is amazing minus my first bad dungeon run. My 2nd run went slightly better but I still feel trash mobs need to be to be toned down.

If your looking for a good game granted it tips the park but the combat is amazing, and th graphics are actually IMHO better than GW2 I would recommend TERA. 

I play from 12-3am every nite after I get off work and about 7-9 hours on Saturday night with usually sunday being off for family stuff and I have played as casual as one can get (or so I thought) spening alot of time researching builds while still logged in (racking up /played time) or standing around crafting or trading post gawking.  I dont see how you can only be level 6, I hit level 36 on my warrior in the first night of release (about 14 hours in) so unless you only play 1 or 2 days a week you have really poor leveling skills lol.

Originally posted by Pivotelite

I remember you making a very nasty insult towards people complaining/hating on GW2 around a week ago...I would have never thought to see this thread from you so soon. I expected it obviously, from all of you rabid defenders, just in another 2 months or so when all hope was lost and there was nothing left to cling to, similar to the SWTOR defenders.

 

Welcome to the club of people who feel the same way as you Zylaxx, GW2 has minigames to do and solo-tasks like world completion to finish but once you grow bored of that or finish...it really is over, there's no sense of purpose or community in GW2 that makes me want to stay.

 

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by cybertrucker

If your looking for a good game granted it tips the park but the combat is amazing, and th graphics are actually IMHO better than GW2 I would recommend TERA. 

I almost DL'd it the other night. Then I caught myself lol just waiting for DF:UW which I'm sure will be delayed another month for some reason or other.

 Lol I actually went back to TERA about a week ago and have been enjoying myself surprisingly even after my guild fell apart during the release of GW2 and split everywhere, just decided to join a new guild and prep myself for 3v3 ranked arena most likely coming in December.

Pivotelite, while I wont fault your assessment I do disagree with your narrative.  GW2 has plenty to do for alot of people, it jsut doesnt have enough for me to do (i.e. PvE and Exploration centric content)  On that same note, I played Asherons Call for close to 12 years, WoW for 6 straight and both of those are truely single player experiences with multiplayer persistance added on and the lack solo-tasks were never a problem there.

Originally posted by tank017

 

[mod edit]

 

A theme park is a theme park...and theme parks are only going to last you a couple months.This is why I lol'ed when people were saying they were going to make GW2 their home for years to come.

People overhyped themselves soo much for this game that some are still crash landing till this day..

 

If you learn to control your personal hype level,you'll be able to land on your feet.

No reason to gloat over me quitting.  I still love all the things it does right (which is many) it jsut there is a serious lack of self important things I like about the game to do now that I finished my task.

Did I overhype it?  Probably yes, well ok defintely yes, but at the time I had reason too because I tried to correlate a virtual semi dynamic ever changing world into my old mindset but alas I admit I was wrong.

Originally posted by tank017

 

[mod edit]

 

A theme park is a theme park...and theme parks are only going to last you a couple months.This is why I lol'ed when people were saying they were going to make GW2 their home for years to come.

People overhyped themselves soo much for this game that some are still crash landing till this day..

 

If you learn to control your personal hype level,you'll be able to land on your feet.

Haha!  I'm pretty sure the sky is falling with BadSpock and now OP.  I think necroing threads is frowned upon as it would make too many people look bad lol.

Yeah the design of the game is at fault more than anything else.  No freedom these days equals no long term playtime for most people that have been playing MMO's for 10+ years.  Also when you have a limited freedom system with all dev content that I can finish in two months, what else can happen but quit.  

While GW2  has great combat/polish and everything is streamlined, I get no sense of accomplishment from anything I do in the game as the game is too streamlined and combat frenetic....very much like a console game. 

I've not quit yet as I found learning new abilities on alts more fun than anything else.  I can't imagine how some people played this game through to 80 with no alts to switch things up.  With such limited skills one run through would be a drag.

I almost wish I could find some enjoyment in esport PvP...but I can't.  Maybe that is really what this game is meant for.

This thread almost has it all. I'd call in within a revelation of a class all its own. Great truth was in this post compared to the other people whom only have one thing to say while they exemplfy it. This is about how I think we all must feel most of the time when changing games a lot and having too many foolish hours to spend gaming.

I haven't played most of these item mall games but I have looked at over half of them or more in the last three months. It is a bit sickening to seem them go to such waste and synthetic break down. If only 20 extra of all objects congruent to one game were added to another, and the good parts kept. You would think the code junkie would be on steroids banging down door with is massive code full of all games and parts giving gamers choices for once. And one thing I saw on Wakfu was that everyone posted their pictures for and intro. This should be a mandatory for playing any mmorpg or it take away from the game and the concept of playing with others. I'm pretty sure this should be done at sign up like a dating site.

I want to quit right now also, yet it is winter and I like to go walking and workout to pass time while not playing mmo's. No gym memship yet so I looking for a new game and found a beta to two different games I can enjoy as if they existed as one. I think these will be good game I got a key for Wizardry, which i think follows good extentions of the oldest of games and also a key to Salem. I think Salem will be fun in playing a slower calmer game with a spin that doesn't focus as much in thr rpg roots of mmo-rpg. Salem so far is all about collecting things, I havent even gotten anything to kill a rabbit with yet.  But, for right now I am happy with the base comparison even in game progression being Wizardry and Salem.

Great Job,

J

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by remyburke
For me, it took the removal of the trinity to make me realize how much it's needed in a themepark MMO. Dungeons in GW2 are a fucking mess.

I only did AC story mode once and I am still recovering from the PTSD of it....are they all that bad?  I have been toying with trying one again.

Nope msot of them are very easy, you jsut got to pick the right path to do.  Still alot of the encounters are nothing but a rez, release and return zerg strategy but not to the extent that AC was.  CoF is the easiest and can be ran with no deaths on a certain path.

Why such a lazy design?  Absolutely the worst thing you could do to the dungeon experience.

I said so as much in between all my fanboish posts about the game.  What the GW2 needs is first a dungeon finder (disagree with me all you want but its the only reason why I stuck with WoW thoughout all of BC/WotLK) and a way to normalize agro instead of playing ping pong with the mob.

A dungeon finder might be OK for ultra casual games like GW2.  It worked for WoW's new (2009+) model (ugh).  It worked to some extent for SWTOR (sigh, wrong audience for this game but w/e).

For the casual game that GW2 is, I guess it's not too much to ask for.  Players in casual games don't care about community, or social aspects, so why not.

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by remyburke
For me, it took the removal of the trinity to make me realize how much it's needed in a themepark MMO. Dungeons in GW2 are a fucking mess.

I only did AC story mode once and I am still recovering from the PTSD of it....are they all that bad?  I have been toying with trying one again.

Nope msot of them are very easy, you jsut got to pick the right path to do.  Still alot of the encounters are nothing but a rez, release and return zerg strategy but not to the extent that AC was.  CoF is the easiest and can be ran with no deaths on a certain path.

Why such a lazy design?  Absolutely the worst thing you could do to the dungeon experience.

I said so as much in between all my fanboish posts about the game.  What the GW2 needs is first a dungeon finder (disagree with me all you want but its the only reason why I stuck with WoW thoughout all of BC/WotLK) and a way to normalize agro instead of playing ping pong with the mob.

A dungeon finder might be OK for ultra casual games like GW2.  It worked for WoW's new (2009+) model (ugh).  It worked to some extent for SWTOR (sigh, wrong audience for this game but w/e).

 

For the casual game that GW2 is, I guess it's not too much to ask for.  Players in casual games don't care about community, or social aspects, so why not.

 

I hear this argument all the time that dungeon finders destroy community yet have not seen any proof of it.

I think I might still be playing Asherons Call if it had a Dungeon Finder and an Auction house, those 2 themepark innovations are the greatest thing to ever hit the genre IMO.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

The whole concept around designing an MMO around the idea that fun is it's own reward is flawed. It's just not possible for most people. Once you get past the 1st few times doing something and have moved into repetition, it's over.  Which means, this game was never really designed to be a solid long term primary MMO. WE've all heard that before, but it's proving itself out. Sure there are those who aer still stimulated by what GW2 did do right and that's great. They have their game. I actually find it somewhat reassuring that there is still hope for the genre. THe rest of us just need a game that targets what stimulates us.

What stimulates you?  What is fun?

Its still the best game since WoW...

But it would have done even better on consoles.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

The problm is that everyone who makes Sandbox's feel that FFA PvP is the only thing that matters.  Give me a PvE Sandbox and I'll gladly try it out if it has solid features and good production quality.  Basically I want a Triple A Sandbox with non raid centric PvE being the focus, but that will never happen so as is I am stuck with themeparks or hybrids.

Wise words mr Zylaxx. I think I'd try and play PvE sandbox any time, given it's polished enough to play.

Originally posted by tank017

Goooooood ,Gooooooooood

 

Now its Aerowyn's turn  muahahahahahahaha

 

Seriously though,

 

A theme park is a theme park...and theme parks are only going to last you a couple months.This is why I lol'ed when people were saying they were going to make GW2 their home for years to come.

People overhyped themselves soo much for this game that some are still crash landing till this day..

 

If you learn to control your personal hype level,you'll be able to land on your feet.

 Yet the king of all ThemeParks, WoW, still has millions of players.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Its still the best game since WoW...

 

Well this is entirely subjective. For me personally it's very mediocre but this is subjective again. Didn't get into WoW either and maybe GW can beat 8 year old WoW. Don't know because I cannot compare these two.

Originally posted by SirFubar

@Karteli About the social aspect, for me, saying things like "we need tools or social structure" is really nonsense. What does it even mean? What kind of tools or social structure that other MMO's have that GW2 would need? It should be to the players to decide these kinds of things, not some in-game tools. Sure the game let you play alone without any group and you aren't punish, but it also doesn't prevent you from grouping. The problem doesn't come from the game at all, its the players and yet people don't even realise this. (???? people are realizing this)

Any game can more or less claim to be an MMORPG.  But it's the little things that really matter to customers.  Some customer's may not not care about certain aspects, since they care about others.  It's those paper cuts that count, get some cuts, and it's OK ...  get a bunch and you might die (Thank you SWTOR for the meaning of 1000 paper cuts!).

"We need tools or social structure" is not nonsense.

For social structure, everyone is the same, equipment wise.  There is no reason for anyone to feel better or worse than any other player.  Which is really bad as a driving factor to get people to keep logging on.

What social tools exist?  There is something like 10 or less emotes in GW2.  Really??  Every other game has 100+ or 200+.  10??

There is no way to examine who is in the same zone as yourself via /who.  There is no way to passively find out what members of a certain guild are currently logged on.  There is also no way to actively find out who of any class and level range are logged on.  No variations of /who.  /who doesn't exist in GW2.

Any achievements someone earns are for the birds.  Nobody else will ever see them or applaud you, so why bother.

Any new equipment designs you get are useless, nobody can inspect you or see how you specifically enhanced them. Why bother getting new equipment or legendaries.  Someone will compliment you, and then proceed to forget you all the same, since interactivity is so low in GW2.

Lack of player trading is also an issue.

Players don't decide these things.  The game comes with social tools, or it does not.  GW2 does not come with social tools.

You blame everything on the players, but you are also saying that an online version on Pong is also social because people who never see each other move their paddles independantly.  While there is no in-game chat, or social tools, players can still communicate via moving their paddles around.  Wonderful.  GW2.

Welcome to the MMO with no endgame.

It's pretty bad when even the avid fanbois are giving up on it a  month after release :)

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Before I start I want to post a couple caveats:

• I think GW2 is the most original MMO since WoW

Couldn't get beyond that. I imagine you only played the AAA WoW clones since WoW then?