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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

Reviews & Impressions  » The boring truth and the hype trainwreck that is GW2

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245 posts found
  RexNebular

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 259

9/29/12 2:58:51 AM#201
Originally posted by Byrhofen
Originally posted by adam_nox
*snip*

I really do like the way the OP claimed to be telling us the truth in the title of thread, when truth be told, all they provide is an opinion, it really made me laugh.

Nothing said in the OP is the truth for anyone but the OP, there is no evidence given to support anything as a fact, it is all just opinion.

Sure, the OP is entitled to an opinion, and sure, they are entitled to voice it on this forum, but at least have the decency to admit that it is only an opinion.

Yes, it's very misleading.

He should've started every sentence  with "In my opinion..."

  adam_nox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2047

 
OP  9/29/12 10:49:48 AM#202
Originally posted by RexNebular
Originally posted by Byrhofen
Originally posted by adam_nox
*snip*

I really do like the way the OP claimed to be telling us the truth in the title of thread, when truth be told, all they provide is an opinion, it really made me laugh.

Nothing said in the OP is the truth for anyone but the OP, there is no evidence given to support anything as a fact, it is all just opinion.

Sure, the OP is entitled to an opinion, and sure, they are entitled to voice it on this forum, but at least have the decency to admit that it is only an opinion.

Yes, it's very misleading.

He should've started every sentence  with "In my opinion..."

Or the word boring, since that implies opinion.  Although there's plenty in my review that's factual, whether you want others to know, or want to disbelieve it.  It's okay if what you believe is more aligned with your desires than empirical evidence, I think everyone has the right to live in their own world.  But those of you that are posting that this is ALL opinion, biased, or untrue, are imposing your fictional world on others, and that's something you shouldn't do. 

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2623

9/29/12 10:58:07 AM#203

I am sure I am in the minority, but I played for like an hour during head start and I have not played since then.  I played some in beta also, and I just don't like the characters or feel of the game or something...

 

I plan on giving it another go sometime, but I  usually play something else when that time comes.....I can't really nail down what it is I dislike, the no trinity, the skills, the swapping weapons stuff....Not sure.

 

I am sure I will give it another go sometime though.

 

  AshenTech

Novice Member

Joined: 10/10/12
Posts: 30

10/10/12 3:44:17 AM#204
Originally posted by Xthos

I am sure I am in the minority, but I played for like an hour during head start and I have not played since then.  I played some in beta also, and I just don't like the characters or feel of the game or something...

 

I plan on giving it another go sometime, but I  usually play something else when that time comes.....I can't really nail down what it is I dislike, the no trinity, the skills, the swapping weapons stuff....Not sure.

 

I am sure I will give it another go sometime though.

 

could also be what made a friend of mine dislike the game without really being able to peg why, the FOV and camara by default SUCK, you either need to use downsampling to play the game at a higher res, or play in a window(squish the game vertically to get more fov) OR use the gw2 camara tool (google it) to get the game to not feel so....wrong.....(or like my buddy, gave him an uneasy feeling and after a while a headake and sick feeling)

that said, once i got the fov worked out, my head stopped hurting and the game became alot more fun....(i didnt get the uneasy feeling or sickness just headake) 

  AshenTech

Novice Member

Joined: 10/10/12
Posts: 30

10/10/12 3:52:56 AM#205
Originally posted by Shubawkss

I only played one dungeon.  It was a chaotic yet boring spamfest, with cutscenes that only I actually watched while the rest of my group left me behind.    In general it wasn't fun.

Okay, so you played one dungeon - so that must mean all dungeons are just like that one dungeon you tried, right? Which one was it; Ascalonian Catacombs?

 

Necromancers almost get what would be considered a resource to gather and spend, but I didn't spend enough time with them to say much about it, except it was very simplistic.

So you didn't even spend much time with the class - but then you say it sucks / doesn't require any skill?

 

Even at 43 I cannot afford a black dye, let alone the truly black abyss dye.    There's also not that many different styles of armor, and if you want to keep one style you need to use a rare consumable to transfer the look.

You're level 43 - did you ever play Guild Wars 1? Black dye is considered one of the hardest things to get - it's rare, you aren't supposed to be running around with 30 friends all in Black gear, it's like the "Exotic/Legendary" of dyes.

 

 Otherwise I would have gotten to 80 before writing a review. 

You didn't even reach level cap, and you criticized the games lack of things to do and dynamic event systems - you didn't even get to the Orr area, or any high level area for that matter.

he didnt need to reach max level, he had already decided the game sucked, for whatever reason he didnt like it, it could be the reasons he stated or the wonkey camara and bad FOV that lead him like many others to just not like the game because something wasnt right and they couldnt figure out what....so they started to blame in game mechanics and such....

 

as to him only hittign 43 in a month...that is pretty pathetic, considering I hit 80 without even trying in around 3 weeks....thats without doing all my story...mostly just running around doing DE's and hearts and map completion stuff....some of its alot of fun, the stuff thats not, i dont do.....(others find stuff i dont like to be the fun stuff, and the stuff i like to be the stuff they hate....to each his own.) 

 

my advice to anybody who dislikes this game and when they think about it they just arent sure why, try either using downsampling, playing the game in a window or using the "gw2 camara tool 0.2" and see if that helps, this games camara still needs work but with the above mentioned you can get some of the FOV issues out of the way and make the game far more enjoyable(this is generally agreed on by people who have tried it on various forums, anet just wont give us an fov slider or let us fully disable camara smoothing...)

 

also, if you dont like it, you may want to wait a few months for AMD/Nvidia/Intel to get out fixed drivers OR umbra to fix their occlusion culling to properly work on gpu, this could fix alot of the performance issues people are seeing.....

I dont blame you if you hate the game, to each his own, but posting your opinions as fact, then spending hours/days argueing about it......

1.why bother, if you really dont like the game, why post about it?

2.why read about it?  

3.do you also do teh same for every other game you dont like?  

4.if so, how do you have time to play gams at all?

 

 

  Yakamomoto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 385

10/12/12 4:24:19 AM#206

have to agree with the OP.

The amount of artificial commercialized hype and subjective "fanboyism" surrounding this title was disgusting from the start. If the title would have deserved it, ok, but it doesn´t. The celebrated "innovation" in this title is nothing but superficial, and some of the innovations are plainly wrong decisions. I´m still baffled by the 10 innvation rating. At the end, nothing remains than another fantasy MMO with over casualized mechanics, set in a pretty world.

On the other hand the price of the package is fair for what you get - but a 60$ lifetime sub labelled "B2P" should have never led to astronomically high expectations.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5895

11/08/12 12:07:35 PM#207
Interesting review

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

11/08/12 12:19:27 PM#208
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

have to agree with the OP.

The amount of artificial commercialized hype and subjective "fanboyism" surrounding this title was disgusting from the start. If the title would have deserved it, ok, but it doesn´t. The celebrated "innovation" in this title is nothing but superficial, and some of the innovations are plainly wrong decisions. I´m still baffled by the 10 innvation rating. At the end, nothing remains than another fantasy MMO with over casualized mechanics, set in a pretty world.

On the other hand the price of the package is fair for what you get - but a 60$ lifetime sub labelled "B2P" should have never led to astronomically high expectations.

Don't you get that with any game now? Like SWTOR, TERA, TSW and new ones that are still in production - ESO, etc. I think it is a spurious argument and a bad one at that.

 

So a 60 dollar B2P should be held to a different standard than a 60 dollar box then sub fee game? What planet are you from - that is ridiculous. They should be held to the same standards. Why? EA really blew it with SWTOR and that was a sub game. A.Net is continuing to release patches to fix things and to make playing better.

 

Basically, please get out of this mindset that B2P are inferior to sub games because it just isn't true, even if you don't like the game, but that is your point bacause you are wearing your opinion on your sleeve.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

11/08/12 12:56:35 PM#209
Well the game is a good Online Story Driven Single Player RPG. But if you expected it to be a good MMO well a MMO it is not. These casual games will never be successful as MMOs. Doesn't matter if they make them but if they are going to call them MMOs it is defined as what is required to be a MMO and GW2 didn't have it.
  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2271

"Free to play, pay to win""

11/08/12 1:03:18 PM#210
Hang on. I'm not allowed to disagree with the OP? Aha.

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  User Deleted
11/08/12 1:20:36 PM#211
Originally posted by adam_nox
Originally posted by Connmacart

Would say surprising review, but than again you have been shitting on the game for a long time. 

Hard to look at things objectively when you go in with a negative mindset.

sorry, but no, not true.  Recently, very recently, I've given honest opinions about the game in other topics, and I've honestly kept it rather mild.  There's no reaspon why my review would look any better.

I played for almost a month with my mouth shut. 

10.28.2012 "I wish more than probably anyone that this game was fun and sociable.    I logged in to check out halloween stuff.  After running around a few minutes unsure what to do, I logged back out. "

10.24.2012 "game is already a console level game, with less depth than a lot of console games, including DCUO"

10.15.2012 "after playing GW2, I want to pay a subscription to something that has depth.  Not saying TSW is it, I haven't played it, I stumbled in here from the front page.  But I had to reply to this, because GW2 has polish and presentation, but it sets the bar very low in almost every other way."

10.12.2012 "Hearts could have worked, but as much as people will hate to admit it, anet was lazy with them.  A single bar to fill with a few possible activities all contributing to it, and that's it?  They could have had several stages for each heart, where a story develops in a single heart as you progress through it's stages, without changing the general concept."

A whole month huh? Doesn't look like it. Of course this doesn't include those posts that were reported locked and deleted.

So his statement holds true about your constant bashing. In no post by you concerning GW2 was there anything positive. post 10.12.2012 I stopped looking there.

The problem isn't that you are saying something negative the problem is the complete nonsense that you post. Only nonsense posts like those are reported here. There's plenty of negative posts that have reasonable concerns still alive and kicking on these forums.

The thing that gets me is if you have concerns go to their forums and post them in suggestion section. Anet actually does listen to their playerbase, they are one of the very few companies that do.

  korent1991

Elite Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1401

11/08/12 1:21:08 PM#212

I as a ranger had a glass cannon build (but you can't see the effect of a "build" when you can use only 20 trait points, eh?) for a while but it really took 2 mobs and they could shatter my ass in 2 hits so it wasn't worth it no matter how good dmg burst was.

Now I'm playing a condition damage + power build and works really great with my playstyle. 

There actually is a lot of builds and setups which can make your life easier or harder, depending on your playstyle. There can be tanks as well, you just have to set up the builds right for your guiardian (just taking him as an example). They only can't hold "aggro" since we actually don't really know how it works and the combat is supposed to be a little bit chaotic :)

I disagree with most of your review, but that was just the part which I wanted to point out. 

 

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  Thorkune

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 1779

Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!

11/08/12 1:27:16 PM#213

Here are my review numbers:

 

  • Gameplay and Combat: 8.0
  • Character development and customization: 8.0
  • Crafting: 1.0
  • WvW:  6.0
  • PvE:  8.0
  • Aesthetics: 9.0
  • MMO feel: 3.0
 
The crafting alone is enough to keep me away. And, I just don't get that feeling that I am playing an MMO. But, I am fairly confident that the issues that I don't like will be addressed at some point.

 

  darkhalf357x

Elite Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1086

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

11/08/12 1:32:19 PM#214
Originally posted by adam_nox

Update 2:  There are a few things worth noting up here at the top.

 

- People who claim bias based on post history have no arguments, that's why they make such claims.  If I had much negative to say about GW2 prior to at least 20 days playing it (including headstart), it was about technical difficulties.  Some fanboys take neutral observations as all out attacks on their precious, so I guess some posts are open to interpretation.  If someone says 'based on your post history', then ignore their post, because they have nothing to say.

 

- I'm not a WoW fan.  I find the idea hilarious.  I guess I'm a victim of MoP release date.  I liked vanilla WoW.  I'm not a fan of kungfu panda.  Cataclysm's remake of the 1-60 was cool, but I don't play WoW, have vowed never to return to it, and have maybe racked up a whole 6 months subbed in it's 7+ year life.

 

-  Don't like eye-catching thread titles and want to reply only to that aspect?  Ok, have fun with that.  My advice is get over it.  It doesn't say GW2 is a trainwreck.  That's idiotic.  It says it's a hype trainwreck, which it is.  And the fault of that lies more with the people here (many probably replying in this topic) than it does with the folks at Anet.  Maybe that's why people are so angry at this review.  GW2 is at best mediocre, but was made out to be the second coming. 

 

- I doubt that my review is as baseless as the die-hards want to believe, it's clear I've touched a nerve and hit too close to home.  I never expected much attention and thought it would just go unnoticed, I just wanted to post it before I moved on to other games, as I'm already forgetting about GW2 as I enjoy Torchlight 2.  I didn't even know topics updated in this section show up under recent posts on the front page of the site. 

 

And now, the review...

 

Gameplay and Combat: 6.0

 

Let's rewind to a few months before release.  I didn't have access to BWE.  I could watch videos, which don't really tell you much about certain aspects of an mmo, character creation, customization, skill choices, etc.  No one was really talking about how combat worked outside of wild claims of how much skill it took to move your character away from attacks and hit the dodge button.

 

I was honestly a little intimidated.  I look back at those feelings now and laugh.  Having come from DC Universe, I can tell you that game's movement and attacks are both more varied and involve ten times as much skill as that of GW2.  I know because I never mastered it in DCUO, but I was good enough that I could see how others were able to counter all my common block breaking and stunlock tricks.  Truly impressive gameplay there, but too high level for a casual non-tekkenish player like myself. 

 

Guild wars 2 on the other hand took all of an hour or so, and only because when you first start out you don't have access to all the skills available on the weapon you equip.  But afterwards, you learn a flow, and moving is easy, dodging even easier (especially for me, who set it to the spacebar.)

 

Outside of endurance for dodge (you get 2 dodges per full bar whooopeee), there's no resource management.  There's no mana, no rage, no energy, etc.  Necromancers almost get what would be considered a resource to gather and spend, but I didn't spend enough time with them to say much about it, except it was very simplistic.  Instead, I was a ranger.   Considered by many a powerful choice, I do not disagree.   Oddly though, my pet was more powerful than me.  I didn't test much without trait points allocated, but with 20 into pet attributes, it consistently outdamaged me, and could take more punishment, and regened life faster.    I was hoping to have a powerful sniper, but instead I was a beastmaster. 

 

That's the thing, there's no real glass cannons, there's no powerful snipers, there's no stealth class.   There's no tanks, there's no healers.  The classes are very similar in functionality, and the differences are mostly skin deep aesthetics.  DPS, dodge, use your heal skill, etc  You'll hear a lot about these magical things called combo fields.  Mostly impractically and usually ineffective, they can sometimes help your group.  I have yet to see the miracle in person though.  As if combo fields and dodging can replace resource management, healing, and agro management.  Pure hubris on the part of the devs.

 

Character development and customization: 6.0

 

You can dye your armor.  Just saying that makes me excited.  Unfortunately, GW2 seems to suck the life right out of it by restricting dyes and making any good ones cost prohibitive until you get up in levels.  Even at 43 I cannot afford a black dye, let alone the truly black abyss dye.    There's also not that many different styles of armor, and if you want to keep one style you need to use a rare consumable to transfer the look.   Strange to bring it up again, but in DCUO you colored pieces how you wanted and once you unlocked a certain style you could use it freely.   Perhaps that system is too lax, but somewhere in between these two systems surely there's perfection. 

 

On the development front, 50% of what your character can do is a simple matter of equiping a weapon.  Honestly the system is borderline bizarre.  No choices at all, really?  Then the other half of your skillbar are skills you can unlock, there's a lot of choice here, but as a ranger, most the abilities were so lackluster that it hardly mattered.  The heal was of obvious importance, but the utilities were crap.  I went with the passives after trying most of them. 

 

Then there's traits.  Magical in the same way combo fields are, I believe that they do change how your character performs in various areas, but there's no active abilities gleaned from traits.  Instead, you spend points wherever it will most increase your damage, as most consider toughness/healing power/vit pointless to up with trait points.  

 

Overall, as someone who came from Diablo 3 very recently, I was already tired of the lack of stat points, skill trees, etc, and GW2 was even more restrictive. 

 

Crafting: 4.0

 

In the beginning of the game I may have given this a 9, but as I continued to craft, but came up short on ingredients I needed, having to buy them off the trading post for more than I could really afford, I don't like it.  Not only do you already devote time to the endeavor, and despite what anyone says, it doesn't award that much xp/hour, you then lose money instead of gaining it, and outside of early levels, it's unlikely you'll keep up enough to provide yourself upgrades or make any sort of profit.  Isn't that the point of crafting?  What do mmo devs not understand about this?

 

WvW:  3.0

 

I'd like to hear from some old school DAoC (original frontiers, not new frontiers) players who liked it's RvR and how they feel WvW compares.  To me it's pretty crappy.  It's simplistic, and at the same time requires several players to get even the smallest task complete, and usually you need siege if you don't want it to take an hour.  It's a bad cumbersome unfun system.  Before the game was released, people made wild claims about WvW.  They said that everyone was on equal footing in terms of character power, no matter what their level, and they said it was the fastest way to level.  Neither claim is even in the ballpark of reality. 

 

Leveling is slow, you'll die a lot, you'll spend a lot on repair costs, and you'll spend a lot of time just running hoping to find a fight you can get some xp out of before you die again.  And level 80s have many more trait points and much better gear that directly effects the damage they can give and take, and they will beat you up and take your lunchmoney, and if they don't then they suck and have bad gear, probably from leveling all the way up in WvW.   It's not fair at all to lower level players, who don't get their own zones.  Instead of having 4 different WvW zones where one is busy and 3 are not, all at level 80, they could have had Eternal at 80, and one at 30 for a cap, 50, and 65 or 70. 

 

I didn't do sPvP, I don't care about capture the flag or whatever it is they do in there.  I like war, like in WoW early days at tarren mill/southshore, or DAoC old frontiers, or even in warhammer online. 

 

In truth there's no war here.  No factions, no world pvp.  Just a cumbersome war game outside the reality of the rest of the game.  It's just another immersion breaker, and makes you wonder, what's the point?

 

PvE:  7.0

 

It's actually not bad at first.  Just running out and doing some stuff without collecting a novel full of quests.  I always thought the way oldschool WoW did it was a bit obnoxious.  I prefer a handful of quests that chain together to make a story or drama, of which I am not the star, but an important player.  GW2 doesn't offer that.   And after a while, DE's seem all the same, boss encounters seem all the same.  spam spam spam that attack, done.   Hearts and collecting vistas and POIs and waypoints is not a replacement for questing.  It just doesn't fill the gap that's left from not having any sort of meaningful quest system.  And it gets old fast.   Not only that, but DEs are so dumbed down and simplistic, and you are never awarded loot.  In general loot is very boring even when you find an upgrade.

 

I only played one dungeon.  It was a chaotic yet boring spamfest, with cutscenes that only I actually watched while the rest of my group left me behind.    In general it wasn't fun.

 

Aesthetics: 9.0

I don't care for the style, especially of mobiles, but the scenery is nice and the graphics quality is clearly impressive.

 

Overall,:not good.  You can do the math yourself.

 

I spent 300 bucks upgrading to an i5 to play this game at better than a slideshow.  I'm not just some guy who plopped the game in and played for 5 minutes without anything invested into it.  What irks me the most is how hyped up the game was by people making wild claims that were simply untrue after playing BWEs.  Claims about world vs world, and how awesome combat was seem so out of this world.

 

I only now review it, as I think I'm ready to move on.  For the past week I've been trying very hard to log in and have fun, and it's just too boring.  With borderlands 2, TL2, and D3 1.05 looming, I don't see why I should waste anymore time.  Otherwise I would have gotten to 80 before writing a review. 

 

On a final note, doing things differently does not warrant the title revolutionary if the change is bad, and most of the divergence of GW2's systems from the mold are downgrades.   Kudos to the devs for trying, but whoever came up with the replacement systems for the trinity, dungeons, questing, and pvp simply did a bad job.

You just sound angry before I even started reading your post.  What's you deal?  Cant you just enjoy games?  And what exactly is a hype trainwreck?  That sounds even more idiotic.  Especially when you consider that hype is just marketing.  Hype cant MAKE you want to play a game.  And if it does - you get exactly what you deserve for not doing proper research.  Hell, I have a bridge to sell you.  Why focus on this

In terms of your 'review'

Why would you expect what you could do in one game (DCUO) to work the same way in another game? (GW2).  They are not even by the same developer.  Not a valid argument, but guess is how you feel.

You were 'intimidated' (your words) by 'wild claims' which you couldnt even substantiate?  Thats the preface to your 'review'  Sounds naive from the start... lets continue...

Your points are confusing.  You say you put points into your pet traits, then say your pet was stronger than  you.  Without you explaining the context to this one would logically assume your pet SHOULD be stronger than based on how you allocated your points.   Did you have more points for your ranger than your pet? 

Then you go on to say 'DEs are very dumbed down and simplistic, yet fail to explain why you feel this way or why this would be considered bad in a larger context.  "Loot is boring, even when you find upgrade" ... riiiight.

I'm not sure what country you are writing from, but you have some serious issues with just basic grammer.  Im guilty of mispelling a word here or there, but you outright have broken sentences. Doesnt help your case much.

And finally you go about how you have to FORCE yourself to log on and have fun.  Who does that?  Its rediculously obvious that you don't like the game so how can you give a review other than a diatribe of what you hate?

All in all it looks as if you have problems synthesizing information, which may explain why your post comes off as juvenile.  if you going to do a review, attempt to be professional about and give a review.  But if all you are going to do is effectively whine about why YOU didnt like the game and then try to pass it off as the GAME itself being bad.  You are only doing yourself a disservice as no one will believe you to begin with.  Then you wonder why players who like the game respond to you the way they do.

And before you start crying or trying to label me as a fanboi or hater or whatever other goofy terms.  I was in all BWEs.  Pre-purchased.  Stopped playing after 17 days.  Great game but realized I need progression...  which if you said (something like that)would have saved you the trouble.

 

  Entris38

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 179

11/08/12 1:37:48 PM#215
nm
  Betakodo

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 338

11/08/12 1:40:53 PM#216

Most people left Guild Wars 2 a while ago because they got bored. But because they were making such a large racket about it being the next great MMO, they now can't talk bad about it. Call it saving face or maybe having shame.

The remainder of people who still glorify Guild Wars 2 are either forumers who spend more time in the forums than in game, or people who are still fooled by the hype, and the casuals who's total /played is a little less than 6 hours.

The story was bland and seems like it was written for a 8 year old audience. The game needs class and skill balance. The devs just put crap they liked into the game that no one else seems to like, capture point based pvp instead of team deathmatch. Arenanet has become greednet with the cash shop. The game lacks substance and is nothing like they or their minions hyped.

Any kind of crafting that requires totems or venom or any of their friends is a pain. They didn't even play test the dungeons, or maybe they did, with God mode on. The world is barely there and it's not breathing, it's more like some puppets dancing the same tune every 10 minutes.

The only thing they got right was the Mad King's Tower.

With all this said, game was not worth $60.

  emota

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 319

11/08/12 1:42:27 PM#217
OP Review seems bang on the money
  romanator0

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 2425

11/08/12 1:44:40 PM#218
Originally posted by Betakodo

Most people left Guild Wars 2 a while ago because they got bored.

And you found these numbers where?

  User Deleted
11/08/12 1:46:45 PM#219
A trainwreck? Not even close. A train moving in a direction the op dosnt want to go? More plausible.
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11834

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

11/08/12 1:48:00 PM#220
Originally posted by Roxtarr
A trainwreck? Not even close. A train moving in a direction the op dosnt want to go? More plausible.

I found 'trainwreck' a rather humorous description. :)

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