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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Thiefs ruin PvP/WvW for every other class ....

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116 posts found
  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2541

11/06/12 2:26:11 PM#81
Originally posted by negativf4kk

Oh MMO player is never happy. NERF NERF NERF. Nerf ranged cause they range attack, nerf melee cause they melee, nerf everyone and everything.

L2P and no nerf is needed.

+1 here. People complained about Saboteurs in Rift, at the beginning being OP, although rather than learn how to snare and kill the Sabs, people whined until they got nerfed into oblivion.

 

A.Net will tweak things, but not in the way people will want and that is because they are looking at the actual data from the server battles and not complaints form whiners.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/06/12 2:33:37 PM#82
Originally posted by negativf4kk

Oh MMO player is never happy. NERF NERF NERF.

It's always popular to conclude that devs can't reach the same conclusions independently.

Fortunately, they have access to actual data.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Homitu

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2044

11/06/12 4:23:05 PM#83

Anytime anyone cries "OP!" I ask them to perform one simple check.  Play the class/character/champion/whatever that you think is OP and try to faceroll players using what you believe to be the OP tactics.  Almost inevitably, you will find players countering your moves very effectively.  Then stop and consider the tactics they used to counter you.  Practice those tactics, learn from this experience, and become a better player.  You're never going to improve if you don't first look to see what you could have done better yourself.  

Characters occasionally need to be retuned a little, but they are almost never as broken as those who claim they are OP say they are.  

  User Deleted
11/06/12 4:27:09 PM#84
Originally posted by Pivotelite

Thief ruins PvP in GW2, I have to agree, especially with rendering.

 

I've watched a thief stop a zerg of 20 people from capturing a supply camp for 5 minutes until the people he told to come kill them came and killed them.

 

Cloak and dagger + broken rendering = permanently invisible.

 

Hot join 8v8 on my server? Usually 6+ of the 16 players are glass cannon thiefs and while you're fighting people you just get steal+cloak and dagger+backstab combo'd by an invisible enemy in 0.5second for 12k HP and drop to the ground.

I agree. By default, Thieves themselves aren't really OP. It's the rendering issue. It's already a problem in WvWvW for NON stealthing classes. 

  negativf4kk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 370

11/06/12 5:03:17 PM#85
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by negativf4kk

Oh MMO player is never happy. NERF NERF NERF. Nerf ranged cause they range attack, nerf melee cause they melee, nerf everyone and everything.

L2P and no nerf is needed.

+1 here. People complained about Saboteurs in Rift, at the beginning being OP, although rather than learn how to snare and kill the Sabs, people whined until they got nerfed into oblivion.

 

A.Net will tweak things, but not in the way people will want and that is because they are looking at the actual data from the server battles and not complaints form whiners.

Aion had Spirit Masters. Swtor had Scoundrels. Point is- all games had and will have pvp class that have slight advantage. And at the end nerf to the point of unplayabulity. Problem with GW2 is that u dont nessesary have to lvl your char to pvp. On positive note Anet doesnt pay to much attention to the nood cries.

 

<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg" border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>

  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2466

11/07/12 5:18:34 AM#86
Originally posted by wireyankee

You can always tell what classes are op in MMO's

1. Highest population

2. Most QQ on the forums against said class

3.  Epic tears from the masses who play op class when a nerf is called for.

I always notice that too.  :D  It crops up in every MMO I've ever played.

  wrightstuf

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 714

11/07/12 2:09:38 PM#87
a "thief" pluralized (more than one) is "thieves," not "thiefs"
  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

11/07/12 3:09:19 PM#88

As a cloth wearer, I admit I dont like thieves at all.  But they arent OP nor do they ruin WvW.  If a thief is caught with low initiative, or is over extended, they are dropped easily.  I suggest practicing your response to a thief's opening salvo.  Many thieves thrive on people panicing when they appear and take out a significant portion of your health pool quickly.   Measuring your response afterwards will put many thieves in an uncomfortable position.   They will blow all thier CD's in order to regain the initiative.

One tip i can share is to assign a hot key to your "about face" command.  Use it so they cant land cloak and dagger and other abilities.

People always complain about thieves/rogues in every MMO, it's the same people who dont take the time to learn thier class and overcome what the thief brings to the table.  Cry more.

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

11/07/12 5:54:56 PM#89

Found this video....

Cant wait to hear the reactions to this.

http://vimeo.com/52977465

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6511

"I fight so you don't have to."

11/07/12 6:00:46 PM#90
Originally posted by Shatter30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

 

There u go

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

11/07/12 6:04:18 PM#91
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Shatter30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

 

There u go

LOL......

binding your keys to your toaster and your cat is pretty pro.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

11/08/12 2:59:13 AM#92
Originally posted by Maephisto

Found this video....

Cant wait to hear the reactions to this.

http://vimeo.com/52977465

Yes - precisely this.

Anyone who can watch this and claim Thieves are 'fine' is one of two things - neither of which I need to spell out for anyone with an IQ of more than 90.

  Kuro1n

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 775

11/08/12 3:22:45 AM#93
Originally posted by Maephisto

Found this video....

Cant wait to hear the reactions to this.

http://vimeo.com/52977465

Yes but that thief wont do much damage, I checked his traits out and its all there in order to do that 'perma' stealth. If an enemy walks into his field his stealth will break with revealed buff also as its really hard to avoid them with HS. I think the CnD perma is better in that case if you are skilled enough to time it well.

On the other hand I can't wait to see if warriors also get nerfed since they have same high damage thiefs do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX6VrSvyuHg

Generally it's more a global problem right now with quickness that makes the damage insanely fast on a few classes. 100 blades is the same as PW before the nerf.

 

The only thing another thief nerf will do is bring the masses to sd perma daze spam. If the thieves gets too nerfed and they hurt my current build (not cookiecutter backstab) I'll probably reroll to a warrior, more damage and less QQers. :>

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

11/08/12 7:05:42 AM#94

Pfft 100b... dual axe whirling axe ftw (not rooted).


Anyways my thief is boring to play but when I play it I use pistol/pistol, more challenging than heartseeker-deathblossom-CnD spam. Everyone saw the pistol whip nerf coming from a million miles away, and backstab was getting abused to oblivion that it was obvious.


  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

11/08/12 7:07:52 AM#95


Originally posted by ShakyMo
Oh also you can't steath as often as you want with a theif, their stealth is their heal skill and subject to the same cooldowns.

Technically you can't but with the game's renderring/culling issue, thieves can appear stealth permanently if they cycle stealth.


  LadyEuphei

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 226

11/08/12 7:27:08 AM#96
IS it weird to anyone else that the only people that ever defend the class in question of being OP are the people that play said OP class. Strange that everyone else thinks they are OP but they themselves do not. Must be a fluke.

  timeraider

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/11
Posts: 552

11/08/12 7:31:55 AM#97
Originally posted by LadyEuphei
IS it weird to anyone else that the only people that ever defend the class in question of being OP are the people that play said OP class. Strange that everyone else thinks they are OP but they themselves do not. Must be a fluke.

Thief is not OP

Sincerly greetings,

- Elementalist

  Lazarus71

Old School

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 986

I play the games I like and don't dwell on the ones I don't, complicated philosophy I know....

11/08/12 7:35:13 AM#98

  I have a lvl 50 thief and I honestly can't say wether they are OP in PVP or not seeing as I have only taken him into PVP for about 10 minutes in that whole time. I only PVE with my thief and I can say I don't use stealth at all. I run daggers/shortbow exclusively and might be stealthed five percent of the total time I have played him and that's probably high. I will say though that the one time I did go into PVP i was getting almost instakilled by a stealth Thief so I am sure there is something to what the OP and others are saying.

Leave it to me to randomly pick a class and play it as my main and it be the class everyone is bitching about lol.

No signature, I don't have a pen

  blastermaster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/07
Posts: 118

11/08/12 8:40:43 AM#99
Originally posted by LadyEuphei
IS it weird to anyone else that the only people that ever defend the class in question of being OP are the people that play said OP class. Strange that everyone else thinks they are OP but they themselves do not. Must be a fluke.

Well, I don't think it's that weird actually.

If most people who say a class is OP would actually try to play the class before they said it's OP, I'm pretty sure we would see less of these post saying how " <insert any class> is OP once they realize that they have the good and bad sides as much as any other classes...

One could say that pretty much any class has it's OP moments  (depending on build/situations,etc.).. I just think that thieves are the black sheep of the family (always been..) because of the stealth mechanic.. people feel it's "cheap" and rage because of it (especially when combined with any form of backstab), but we have to keep in mind that stealth is a thief's main form of defense. After all they are a melee class, yet don't have durability.. so they need ways to come in and out without getting too much attention.  

--

For the record, I don't think that "Thiefs ruin PvP/WvW for every other class..." as stated by the OP. (is'nt that the mesmer's job?! hehe j/k!  ;) ) 

I'm not saying thieves should'nt be looked into, they have their issues and also need some tweaks (FoTM is always a good indication of some kind of problem with a specific class/build), but I hope ANet sticks to their own agenda (based on actual data) and not on all the whinning that goes on forums, because if they react based on this kind of feedback, once thieves are done, you can be sure they will end up doing the same to any class.. The "never ending nerf cycle" (remember DAoC) !

 

  alkarionlog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 1043

11/08/12 9:10:37 AM#100
Originally posted by timeraider
Originally posted by LadyEuphei
IS it weird to anyone else that the only people that ever defend the class in question of being OP are the people that play said OP class. Strange that everyone else thinks they are OP but they themselves do not. Must be a fluke.

Thief is not OP

Sincerly greetings,

- Elementalist

its not op but with several bug exploits used on that class they will fix and nerf things get used to it

FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.

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