Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Khebeln

 

Uhh yeah, but only in set of best gear and perfect control of your character by everyone in your group. Voice coms help as well.

Gw2 dungeons are chaotic and no mater how much ppl will say get over it or others can do it etc, wont fix this.

I have 500h+ played (majority of it runing dungeons)

Right now im waiting for more content as pvp as fun as it is mechanics wise its not motivating enough to do it.

which is my favorite part.. in games i played in the past like Rift once you know the mechanics of a dungeon it's the same exact fight over and over with people doing the same exact things over and over gets really boring after a couple runs imho now saying that gw2 dungeons have mechanics as well which make it a ton easier but still has that element of chaos that makes them that much more fun.

Your statement makes no sense because, regardless of the perceived "chaos", the mobs / bosses are still only performing a limited script of actions. Therefore, you're pretty much ALWAYS doing the same thing over-and-over again; however, in GW2 you're much more likely to die because the aggro mechanics are practically non-existant.

"Chaos" has nothing to do with dungeons getting stale. It's still the same dungeon, it's still the same bosses, and they still perform the exact same moves.

I have to agree with the OP.  I've really enjoyed the PvE experience in GW2 and finally did my first dungeon run with some guildies over the weekend.  

We did CM story mode with two guardians, a necro, an elementalist and a warrior.   Most people in the group were level 80's except myself and one of the guardians.

We must have had at least 15 total wipes, not to mention a whole bunch of times where one or two people would die and have to run back.   There really didn't seem to be a strategy, it was more like see how many mobs we can down before we die, rez, repeat.

The story was ok but the boss fights just felt like trash mobs with more health.  In most cases, I didn't even realize we were fighting a boss until the chest of loot appeared after we cleared the room. 

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer boss fights to feel like a unique experience compared to trash mobs, this particular dungeon never really felt that way (maybe other dungeons are different).

Still enjoying GW2, just didn't have much fun in my first dungeon.    

Its not chalangeing if you run in experianced/geared group.

But try a run with 5 dps speced elementals. They get 1-2 shoted by ranged that you cant cc enough with to short duration. Yeah you will eventualy do it but its corpse run.

Then again if you have a group of say... 4 warriors + 1 support (healing ele ? mesmer ?) then everything is reasonabely easy as the warriors are nut like tough and hold agro while doing 2x the dps of dps speced elementalist (even tho there are no TANKS per say in gw2, fact is good mele CAN and WILL tank - cough....  so much for no trinity)

If they would make its as easy or hard for warriors as it is for elementals then i would not complain (as much)

I like being in control in a battle and stray shots can and will 1 shot you as elementalist, unless you are speced in survival and have enough vit/toughness.

Even if you put all those issues aside (duno about you but those are issues for me) there is no real drive to do dungeons as 95% of th time you are fully geared in best crafted gear by the time you start doing dungeons, what makes them feel like you are not progressing at all.

I would even understand doing it for the skins but then you cant use skins in spvp (ones you gained in dungeons), you dont get as much money as you once did (so you don run it for the money), to get any other drops than blue you have to have all geard with + loot chance (crafted ofc :P)

I just wish they would either test those things before release by experianced veterans, or just use commons sense.

Actualy i have way more bones to pick about the dungeons in Gw2 but this would take a long while to type down here, so ill just leave it at that for now.

I normally just read and leave threads like this, but for some ODD reason I felt the need to post and throw in my 2 cents... ok back to the OP. I am sorry but AC was by far my _favorite_ dungeon experience in GW2, it only took 4 of us, all 3 others than myself RL friends. We must have attempted that dungeon ~4 times, 3 times failures one time win. First time was an EPIC wipe, didn't even get past first room, keep in mind all of us are new to the game. Second time, we couldn't pass the champion archer at first, third time we got raped at Ralena and Vassar and gave up for a few weeks thinking; damn, how is that even POSSIBLE. THen.... we struck gold, screw throwing rocks. We trapped Ralena in the sliding doors from the Necro's room, and managed to kill her solo then take on Vassar. After that, we played what the 4 of us called "catch" with King Adelbern, we made a square around him, throwing the same 2 rocks to the opposite corner player to kill the king. Not a single drop. The journey was epic, and honestly all 4 of us play and have to challenge SE, COF, COE, HoTW and Arah still. It is a journey that we follow, much like destiny's edge. Honestly I think AC is hard... RIGHTFULLY SO. I don't see how it was ever advertised as PUG friendly, I have never heard that ever in my 2 straight months of playing this game. As for one of the posts with the spinny dude in CoF, I ask you, WHY DO PEOPLE GIVE UP EASILY? I mean really, I got a PUG and killed that guy, after being wiped with other more "weak" PUGS earlier. It is not that hard, really the key to ANY dungeon in GW2, yes even the fabled Path 3 COF is just a friendship and cooperation. PUGS provide that granted you find players willing to speak, and interact with one another. I mean really it is just flat out annoying that people complain how "difficult" these dungeons are. 

Now for people who say it is "NOT FUN". As you mentioned OP, there are plenty of other things to do ingame, hell the Halloween event just ended and now you have November to look forward to. If not WvW, Map Completion, sPvP or simple socializing, then maybe another game?! But really... if you don't find it fun, simple answer, don't do it. For people who don't insta-drop and are willing to find out TACTICS TO WIN, then it is an absolute blast. What isn't fun for me is the trinity and knowing the formula before you even enter. One boss in Twilight Arbor had an INSANE amount of beasts (champion #2 the necro dude), we got wiped so much. We finally learned that usign ranged and running in a simple circle while one of us run AOED the mobs proved to be the most viable tactic. Honestly, this whole notion of "IT IS NOT NOOB FRIENDLY," "IT IS NOT PUG FRIENDLY," "IT IS TOO DIFFICULT" just agitates me. 

I am sorry for the ridiculous rant but it is just infuriating, and I am not a GW2 fanboy, I never really even post here. I just wanted to share what I thought because I see what I always see happening, a nice, intriguing system designed so people _THINK_, and a group of people who want that to come down. 

About "progression" : The dungeon's STORY MODE gives you the journey of the Destiny's Edge group, which is interesting for some people. The explorables drop tokens so you can get the skins to use in WvW and PvE. You can't dis an entire set of content (Dungeons) as being useless simply because you cannot use their skins in just sPvP, that is a game in and of itself. Not to mention you can get the same skins in sPvP if you work hard enough anyways.

Originally posted by C1d0s

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Khebeln

 

Uhh yeah, but only in set of best gear and perfect control of your character by everyone in your group. Voice coms help as well.

Gw2 dungeons are chaotic and no mater how much ppl will say get over it or others can do it etc, wont fix this.

I have 500h+ played (majority of it runing dungeons)

Right now im waiting for more content as pvp as fun as it is mechanics wise its not motivating enough to do it.

which is my favorite part.. in games i played in the past like Rift once you know the mechanics of a dungeon it's the same exact fight over and over with people doing the same exact things over and over gets really boring after a couple runs imho now saying that gw2 dungeons have mechanics as well which make it a ton easier but still has that element of chaos that makes them that much more fun.

Your statement makes no sense because, regardless of the perceived "chaos", the mobs / bosses are still only performing a limited script of actions. Therefore, you're pretty much ALWAYS doing the same thing over-and-over again; however, in GW2 you're much more likely to die because the aggro mechanics are practically non-existant.

"Chaos" has nothing to do with dungeons getting stale. It's still the same dungeon, it's still the same bosses, and they still perform the exact same moves.

look at it this way.. in a trinity dungeon you know everyones role they perform their roles and if everyone knows the dungeon mechanics it goes off like clockwork.. In GW2 without real defined roles this adds another level of "chaos" you need to deal with every time you run a dungeon.. you need everyone to be able ot CC well and contol the situation well.. not only that you have all the extra things many dungeons throw in like traps and such which add even more chaos to the mix.. personally i think it's a great change of pace compared to other MMO dungeons..

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Khebeln

 

Uhh yeah, but only in set of best gear and perfect control of your character by everyone in your group. Voice coms help as well.

Gw2 dungeons are chaotic and no mater how much ppl will say get over it or others can do it etc, wont fix this.

I have 500h+ played (majority of it runing dungeons)

Right now im waiting for more content as pvp as fun as it is mechanics wise its not motivating enough to do it.

which is my favorite part.. in games i played in the past like Rift once you know the mechanics of a dungeon it's the same exact fight over and over with people doing the same exact things over and over gets really boring after a couple runs imho now saying that gw2 dungeons have mechanics as well which make it a ton easier but still has that element of chaos that makes them that much more fun.

Weren't  you the person who recommended to watch a video and learn the mechanics of how to run it? A bit of contradiction wouldnt you say?

I am definately willing to give it a few more goes. However last night did leave a sour taste. I understand dodging and the importance  it plays. I was also using wind rush knock backs and  burning escape for get aways. With all the debate going on though, I still feel the combat felt more like a kite fest than tactical. The trash mobs were also just insane.

Overall my Experiance of GW2 has been very fun and enjoyable. Then again I also enjoyed TERA when I played it for about a month over the summer. I left it due to real life issues that arose.  I just got back into gaming last month when I picked up GW2. I definately can say I had more fun in the TERA dungeons that I got a chance to run. If the GW2  dungeon Experiance doesn't improve imay find my way back there, or maybe Vanguard which from what I have heard is actually putting out new content later this month.

I am personally meh about the dungeons. I enjoy the overall world much better. I just wish they had one giant insanely hard map or part of a map that is like a miniature dungeon. Make it like underground, and random crap always happens, and it is a giant maze that can change based on different events. 

It would have anti Zerg elements, things like rockslides that can potentially insta kill, and happen more frequently the more people that are with you. It can also have a debut called "plague" that can potentially be spread to other people. 

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Khebeln

 

Uhh yeah, but only in set of best gear and perfect control of your character by everyone in your group. Voice coms help as well.

Gw2 dungeons are chaotic and no mater how much ppl will say get over it or others can do it etc, wont fix this.

I have 500h+ played (majority of it runing dungeons)

Right now im waiting for more content as pvp as fun as it is mechanics wise its not motivating enough to do it.

which is my favorite part.. in games i played in the past like Rift once you know the mechanics of a dungeon it's the same exact fight over and over with people doing the same exact things over and over gets really boring after a couple runs imho now saying that gw2 dungeons have mechanics as well which make it a ton easier but still has that element of chaos that makes them that much more fun.

Weren't  you the person who recommended to watch a video and learn the mechanics of how to run it? A bit of contradiction wouldnt you say?

I am definately willing to give it a few more goes. However last night did leave a sour taste. I understand dodging and the importance  it plays. I was also using wind rush knock backs and  burning escape for get aways. With all the debate going on though, I still feel the combat felt more like a kite fest than tactical. The trash mobs were also just insane.

Overall my Experiance of GW2 has been very fun and enjoyable. Then again I also enjoyed TERA when I played it for about a month over the summer. I left it due to real life issues that arose.  I just got back into gaming last month when I picked up GW2. I definately can say I had more fun in the TERA dungeons that I got a chance to run. If the GW2  dungeon Experiance doesn't improve imay find my way back there, or maybe Vanguard which from what I have heard is actually putting out new content later this month.

the videos will give you insight in how the traps and fight mechanics work but no way you can prepare for what people will do or how they will play unless you fight with the same core group

Welcome to dungeon runs without a holy trinity. It's nothing but a zergy wipefest, and without making major changes to the class system it's impossible to fix. This one thing is what kinda kills my hopes for them figuring out a decent end game for GW2.

Also, want to add that this is the reason folks haven't smelled the coffee yet. When there are so many folks doing AC for the first time still, it just shows how few of this games population have hit the content wall yet.

to the OP

my very first time AC was chaotic we died a lot of time , me and my gf we said we would never do this dungeon again because it  was so hard and not fun to die that often

dungeon is supposed to be hard and it was till we understand the mechanic of it , how to deal with the differents group of mobs and bosses

now i run the three path in less than 2 hours because we know what to do

any first time dungeon is always like that,  hard like hell (first time Arah was .....no comment)

after some  runs you might appreciate the dungeon

If I'm being taking out of play or dying due to no fault of my own, I get pissed. 

Is this the issue? If so it starts to feel like luck of the draw. That gets old fast.

I bet the OP has submitted a ticket to Anet for a God Mode consumible to be purchased on The Blacklion Trading Post.

I can't for this instant I win button!

Run 4war + support or 5war if you want to cheese it.  Once again, anet blows at class balance so warriors lead the way in shitting on content.  Not interested in cheesing?

You didn't do well because the game doesn't encourage you to play well until you're inside the dungeon.  Your previous gameplay revolved around:

1. Doing hearts

2. Zerging DEs or PvP objectives

3. Playing point capture

Obviously, hearts have no difficulty whatsoever and can be done with practically any build - even no build, just pressing your 1 key.  Since there's no demand for skillful play, you don't learn anything.

When you zerg those DEs, even though they're supposed to scale, they don't scale as much as each player brings to the zerg in terms of raw damage output and boon coverage.  Make a zerg big enough and you'll end up with endless boons and crazy damage - it's just inevitable.  Pressing 1 is a perfectly valid method of contributing in this situation. 

In PvP, each specific ability you use is less useful as the enemy zerg grows (they will effect a smaller percentage of the zerg), which makes tactical play in WvW zergs either impossible or useless (hint: the only tactic you need to know to be good at WvW is 'always make sure another teammate is between you and any invader).

Point capture might be the best option, but you're probably not r80 by the time you are hitting your first dungeon, so you really don't know shit about tactics in sPvP (no offense).

The solution?

Roll warriors.  Or, have GW2 encourage skillful play before dungeons somehow.

Originally posted by WargRider2

I normally just read and leave threads like this, but for some ODD reason I felt the need to post and throw in my 2 cents... ok back to the OP. I am sorry but AC was by far my _favorite_ dungeon experience in GW2, it only took 4 of us, all 3 others than myself RL friends. We must have attempted that dungeon ~4 times, 3 times failures one time win. First time was an EPIC wipe, didn't even get past first room, keep in mind all of us are new to the game. Second time, we couldn't pass the champion archer at first, third time we got raped at Ralena and Vassar and gave up for a few weeks thinking; damn, how is that even POSSIBLE. THen.... we struck gold, screw throwing rocks. We trapped Ralena in the sliding doors from the Necro's room, and managed to kill her solo then take on Vassar. After that, we played what the 4 of us called "catch" with King Adelbern, we made a square around him, throwing the same 2 rocks to the opposite corner player to kill the king. Not a single drop. The journey was epic, and honestly all 4 of us play and have to challenge SE, COF, COE, HoTW and Arah still. It is a journey that we follow, much like destiny's edge. Honestly I think AC is hard... RIGHTFULLY SO. I don't see how it was ever advertised as PUG friendly, I have never heard that ever in my 2 straight months of playing this game. As for one of the posts with the spinny dude in CoF, I ask you, WHY DO PEOPLE GIVE UP EASILY? I mean really, I got a PUG and killed that guy, after being wiped with other more "weak" PUGS earlier. It is not that hard, really the key to ANY dungeon in GW2, yes even the fabled Path 3 COF is just a friendship and cooperation. PUGS provide that granted you find players willing to speak, and interact with one another. I mean really it is just flat out annoying that people complain how "difficult" these dungeons are. 

Now for people who say it is "NOT FUN". As you mentioned OP, there are plenty of other things to do ingame, hell the Halloween event just ended and now you have November to look forward to. If not WvW, Map Completion, sPvP or simple socializing, then maybe another game?! But really... if you don't find it fun, simple answer, don't do it. For people who don't insta-drop and are willing to find out TACTICS TO WIN, then it is an absolute blast. What isn't fun for me is the trinity and knowing the formula before you even enter. One boss in Twilight Arbor had an INSANE amount of beasts (champion #2 the necro dude), we got wiped so much. We finally learned that usign ranged and running in a simple circle while one of us run AOED the mobs proved to be the most viable tactic. Honestly, this whole notion of "IT IS NOT NOOB FRIENDLY," "IT IS NOT PUG FRIENDLY," "IT IS TOO DIFFICULT" just agitates me. 

 

I am sorry for the ridiculous rant but it is just infuriating, and I am not a GW2 fanboy, I never really even post here. I just wanted to share what I thought because I see what I always see happening, a nice, intriguing system designed so people _THINK_, and a group of people who want that to come down. 

 

About "progression" : The dungeon's STORY MODE gives you the journey of the Destiny's Edge group, which is interesting for some people. The explorables drop tokens so you can get the skins to use in WvW and PvE. You can't dis an entire set of content (Dungeons) as being useless simply because you cannot use their skins in just sPvP, that is a game in and of itself. Not to mention you can get the same skins in sPvP if you work hard enough anyways.

Uhh you miss the point, its easy alright, but its anoying as well. There is not much feeling of reward after finishing the dungeons as you feel like its all random and its not much in your control.

But then again some ppl like it some dont.

I personaly love dungeons in TSW for example (elite ones) All of them are treated like 5 man raid encounters, rewards are well distributed (so there is always a reason to do them every day) and they look way better than gw2.

Only bone to pick i have with TSW is the game is to static outside dungeons (would love rift like dynamic, oh well)

The fact is in this generation of gamers dungeons (Atleast the easy version of them) need to ramp up the difficulty and present a challenge that can be understood.

Guild wars 2 while a great game in its own right misses this point entirely, the dungeons feel too random, to uncontrolled and its not about the challenge but the enjoyment, simply put the Gw 2 dungeons are not an enjoyable experience.

Thats all there is to it to me, I like a challenge but I want a challenge that feels like it can be contained and controlled with enough skill not the randomness of GW 2 dungeons.  The fact that they literally NEED a voice communicating group even at entry level puts off the players who would otherwise invest time in the content but dont have the structure to do so any more.

Sorry to say but while I love the game outside of the dungeons (atleast up to level 80 anyway) the Dungeon game is sadly lacking, it feels like Anet went too hipster in their "Quest to be different" this is a change that feels too contrived and too much for the sake of looking different.