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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Thiefs ruin PvP/WvW for every other class ....

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116 posts found
  DeathByCactus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 39

11/04/12 10:15:43 PM#21

I can faceroll thieves on my Ranger. Lbow, sbow, axe+horn, no matter. They die.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 434

11/04/12 10:31:23 PM#22

I believe thieves play the way they should. If there is a glitch causing them to remain invisible that does not mean they are overpowered.. the glitch just needs to be fixed... I run full tough/vit thief and i'm still super squishy.. there is no getting around it... of course thieves can kill u quickly.. they are thieves..... supposed to be the highest burst damage in game.. in every game.... i believe the only class they "shouldn't" be able to kill is a guardian..

  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1046

11/04/12 10:48:43 PM#23
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by TheHavok
Originally posted by evilastro
It's not that thieves are OP, it's that some classes are a bit underpowered and could do with a survivability buff - rangers, eles and necro particularly. Especially since none of them qualify as spike damage. My Mesmer has more issues with Engineers and Warriors than thieves. But everyone is manageable if you react quick enough.

Actually, this isn't necessarily true.  Thieves are broken atm.  They are able to get off multiple abilities before being seen by their opponent, something that was not intended by the devs.  Anet calls it a "visual culling bug". Source

Now the question is, should they still be able to do 20k damage in less then 6 seconds?  Should they be able to reset fights by stealthing and running away when targetted? 

No, they should not.  And that is why thieves are getting nerfed com nov. 17 (or atleast tweaked).

warrior can do well over that in 6 seconds if built right:) done it myself using a similar build to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NOvGobUzk

Yeah they can do that every 60 seconds and takes double dmg while they have frenzy active, its also easily counterable with a stun break dodge roll, or a block on the knockdown, or a stun, immobolise, a daze and kinda of CC or break CC you can think or and also a invun from utility skill such as ignore pain, Now theifs can do there dmg every 10 seconds and the only realy counter is 2 CC them which just meand they will stealth and do it again in about 3 seconds or pop an ignorepain or shield block which just means they will either stop burning initiative till its gone or burn there initiatiuve then attempt to run away till initituive is back.

Anyway i heard Anet is planning to nerf thiefs burst dmg and increase there consistant dmg or sioomthing like that.

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

11/04/12 11:03:23 PM#24

Funny, I'm running a dual dagger necro with minions and no higher than second tier traits and have yet to be beaten by a Thief.  I've been destroyed by Warriors, Guardians and other Necros, but not a Thief by themself, yet.  Granted, I've only played WvWvW a handful of times so far, but I've gone up against a couple of Thiefs and found them to be fairly easy to kill.

 

Maybe they just weren't very good, or I'm a little better than I thought I was.  And I never thought I was very good at PvP style play.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  Isawa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

11/04/12 11:23:41 PM#25

Been playing WvW a lot recently, and a decent amount from the beginning, and sure the thief is a total pain to my elementalist in an open road ambush. If I ever need to revenge my elementalist, I just switch to my Guardian and wipe the floor with those glass cannon stealth bandits :) Heck, most of the time I don't even end up taking them out, because they hightail it out of the area and search for easier prey.

While we're on it, any full suited exotic lvl 80 can really rain hell on non lvl 80s in WvW. It's not unreal to take out 3-4 characters probably under lvl 30 with just one maxed out 80. The other day I destroyed a necromancer in 3 attacks with my guardian.

Now if I'm defending a keep or something, I much prefer my elementalist and the aoes.

  Betakodo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 339

11/04/12 11:35:31 PM#26
[mod edit]

Guild Wars 2 needs balance. Badly. Anet doesn't have a good track record at making it. See Guild Wars 1. I don't think the skills guy can do basic math.

 

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

11/04/12 11:39:01 PM#27
    Nothing compares to the stealthing classes DAoC had to ruin the fun of battlegrounds.....
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7195

11/05/12 12:17:37 AM#28
Originally posted by Shatter30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

 

There u go

Thank you.  Well worth all 98k views.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

11/05/12 2:19:24 AM#29
It is OP.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  mazut

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/23/08
Posts: 826

11/05/12 2:21:01 AM#30
Thiefs are not that powerful, but they are very annoying disapearing all the time.
  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

11/05/12 3:57:40 AM#31

With ground targeted Wells, increased damage Marks and Retaliation when I enter Death Shroud I find Thieves to be fine.

But I would not like to face one if I wasn't playing my Necro (or my Mesmer alt).

Stealth does indeed last too long, and their ability to finish downed players entirely in stealth is also a poorly designed ability.

I beleive that both Thieves and Mesmers have the same OP abilities - I am finding this playing my Mesmer alt at the moment. It is laughably easy to win 1v1 and no problem to remove myself from combat and come back when the circumstances favour me again. Thieves enjoy the same inherent advantages even though they achieve it in different ways.

The fact I beleive remains - good Thief players take more skill to kill than good players of other classes (with the exception of Mesmers).

One only has to face a team with a good number of both classes to see this as clear as crystal.

No revamp necessary - just a tone-down on the 'There's 80% of your health gone and now I'm not here until I am ready to finish you off' gameplay.

And for the logic-challenged who might be tempted to call me a 'noob' or some other label to avoid tackling what I am saying - let me repeat myself.

I don't find Thieves a problem - with my Necro main or Mesmer alt (I haven't played any other classes yet). I do however see how many other players do, and I get irritated when I face teams with two Thieves working in tandem who rip through the rest of my team with derisory ease and leave me holding the baby 3:1 or worse. I might not be as irritated when they are on MY side - but that is because I haven't lost an sPvP match where it happened.... not ONE....

.... and that tells me all I need to know about the effectiveness of Thieves.... no other paired class can compare in effectiveness - hands down.

Just because YOU find Thieves 'fine', because either you have a trick or two to deal with them, or because you play one and want things to remain as they are, doesn't mean they don't need some adjustment.

  User Deleted
11/05/12 5:55:54 AM#32
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by TheHavok
Originally posted by evilastro
It's not that thieves are OP, it's that some classes are a bit underpowered and could do with a survivability buff - rangers, eles and necro particularly. Especially since none of them qualify as spike damage. My Mesmer has more issues with Engineers and Warriors than thieves. But everyone is manageable if you react quick enough.

Actually, this isn't necessarily true.  Thieves are broken atm.  They are able to get off multiple abilities before being seen by their opponent, something that was not intended by the devs.  Anet calls it a "visual culling bug". Source

Now the question is, should they still be able to do 20k damage in less then 6 seconds?  Should they be able to reset fights by stealthing and running away when targetted? 

No, they should not.  And that is why thieves are getting nerfed com nov. 17 (or atleast tweaked).

warrior can do well over that in 6 seconds if built right:) done it myself using a similar build to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NOvGobUzk

Yep, warriors definitely have better spike damage than thieves, and even they can be managed.

To TheHavok:

Never had an issue with thieves not rendering after leaving invis. I am guessing thats more of a latency / hardware issue? Dozens of thieves have tried to do the dagger combo from stealth and failed, personally I have never seen this 'visual culling bug'.  The video from the 'source' clearly shows the thief becoming visible as soon as he hits the player.

  moguy2

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/12
Posts: 364

Wish I had something positive to say =(

11/05/12 6:02:00 AM#33
Id make a thief then. Go do what they do to others. And yell while you are at your computer " HAHAHA I GOT YOU ! "
  LifeEnder

Novice Member

Joined: 7/26/12
Posts: 47

11/05/12 6:14:23 AM#34
Dual axe warrior destroys 2 thieves at a time.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/05/12 6:15:32 AM#35
I kill them ll the time on my ranger.

Frost trap, other traps drop them around, soon spot a their. Also have in spvp aoe frost on my pets (Imobilize or heals in WvW as so no point sending my pet in)

They're a git for finishing you when stealthed though, but generally if I get the first hit, which I do with my range or traps, I win.

I have a way harder time with mesmers, necro ain't fun either.


Some classes beat others that's just the way it is, op plays elementalist, they nuke the hell out of people from range, the trade off is they don't like people in their face, which is why I swap to greatsword or sword and torch and get in their faces if I fight one one on one, as if I trade rdps with them I cone off worst.
  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

11/05/12 6:21:43 AM#36
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Warhammer didn't have rogues

It had witch hunters and witch elves neither of which were op.

Now "mages" where op when backed by a buffing tank.

With gw2 freeze is your weapon vs theifs, various necro skills, ranger frost trap etc..

That is BS. Witch Elves were brought on to same level of WH but quite late after release. There were too many complaints about Witch Elves and even videos of them destroying heavy armor classes in matter of seconds. They were just way too over tuned. I have never seen so many complaining about any class being OP as i saw in Warhammer in regards of WE.

Thiefs are not even in same league.

  alkarionlog

Elite Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 1025

11/05/12 6:22:11 AM#37
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by TheHavok
Originally posted by evilastro
It's not that thieves are OP, it's that some classes are a bit underpowered and could do with a survivability buff - rangers, eles and necro particularly. Especially since none of them qualify as spike damage. My Mesmer has more issues with Engineers and Warriors than thieves. But everyone is manageable if you react quick enough.

Actually, this isn't necessarily true.  Thieves are broken atm.  They are able to get off multiple abilities before being seen by their opponent, something that was not intended by the devs.  Anet calls it a "visual culling bug". Source

Now the question is, should they still be able to do 20k damage in less then 6 seconds?  Should they be able to reset fights by stealthing and running away when targetted? 

No, they should not.  And that is why thieves are getting nerfed com nov. 17 (or atleast tweaked).

warrior can do well over that in 6 seconds if built right:) done it myself using a similar build to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NOvGobUzk

Yep, warriors definitely have better spike damage than thieves, and even they can be managed.

To TheHavok:

Never had an issue with thieves not rendering after leaving invis. I am guessing thats more of a latency / hardware issue? Dozens of thieves have tried to do the dagger combo from stealth and failed, personally I have never seen this 'visual culling bug'.  The video from the 'source' clearly shows the thief becoming visible as soon as he hits the player.

no its a know bug, they still keep in stealth for 2-3 secs, you can target then sooner if you know where they are or you tab and it target then, but other then that they can look perma stealth, annoying too when ou want to kill then and they run, but they will nerf thiefs, only who don't like to hear that is theifs, but they will just wait

FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.

  Woopin

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/14/07
Posts: 1029

11/05/12 6:25:46 AM#38

Thifes are not overpowered at all. 

They can be dropped fast as hell if they stealth AOE, and why are you standing around for 3 to 6 seconds being smacked on you have utility skills and dodges use them.... 

As a ranger I had loads of thiefs try and fail pretty damn hard. They jump out I dodge look at them and knockback then rappid shot they usually stealth by then I AOE or cast traps. If they are stupid and come out and try to carry on I just root them and rappid shot is usually up by then and they are done.

The only time I die to a thief is when stuff is on cooldown but that is when fighting more than a few.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6908

11/05/12 6:26:23 AM#39


Originally posted by Aerowyn
warrior can do well over that in 6 seconds if built right:) done it myself using a similar build to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NOvGobUzk


Stun + burst DPS...

Imbecile developers? :)

  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1017

11/05/12 6:30:51 AM#40

I play a thief and the developers have already confirmed that the burst is getting another nerf. 

 

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/thief/Backstab-time-to-nerf/page/2

 

"Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate."

 

The reason you get torn to bits in like two seconds is very simple and a lot of people do not understand how it works. Maybe someone went over it in this thread, but I don't have time to read it all right now. So here is the short version.

 

1. Put on venoms (stun and damage) then start casting cloak and dagger.

2. Steal to your target. Cloak and dagger will NOT be interupted as it should be by steal.

3. You will land steal (mug) and a fraction of a second later the cloak and dagger you started will go off.

4. Now you are invisible, your target is stunned by venoms and you can launch into a massive backstab attack (with 100% crit chance from traits) a second later.

5. Congrats you just did 10-20k damage in about 2 seconds. 

 

Steal SHOULD interupt the cast for cloak and dagger, but it does not. So first step is to fix this bug, then that rotation is no longer valid. 

 

PS I use shortbow and dual pistols on my thief. I win plenty of fights, but I do not blow anyone up (with gear or a brain) in 2 seconds. 

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