A Themepark MMO with the Theme being PvP is a Sandbox.

Player made content is no longer a requirement, as long as the game gets no/very little PvE support,

and the main theme is PvP.

This seem to be the new age definiton of Sandbox MMO.

You dont even need to be able to change the world at all, as long as players know the PvE in the themepark is very lacking, and that PvP rules the game world, The general population wll see it as a Sandbox MMO.

things like FFA full loot only adds to the PvP theme of the Themepark. making it more of a Themepark with the theme being PvP.

what you describe is a case of the game being a themepark but the metagame being sandbox.

it's a weird mutant.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

A Themepark MMO with the Theme being PvP is a Sandbox.

Player made content is no longer a requirement, as long as the game gets no/very little PvE support,

and the main theme is PvP.

 

This seem to be the new age definiton of Sandbox MMO.

You dont even need to be able to change the world at all, as long as players know the PvE in the themepark is very lacking, and that PvP rules the game world, The general population wll see it as a Sandbox MMO.

things like FFA full loot only adds to the PvP theme of the Themepark. making it more of a Themepark with the theme being PvP.

Have you ever played a sandbox? Sandbox does not  = pvp. Its a huge misconception and its gone to far.

Out of the handful of sandbox games, only a few are pvp "themed".

Sandbox = freedom, open exploration, social features, proper crafting, proper resource gathering, making your own content, doing what you want to do when you want to do it, quests, open leveling, player housing, player cities, guilds, not being led around on a leash, community, grouping, and so much more.

You name one sandbox that is based on pvp, ill name 3 that arent.

And no game released today even offers half those features above, well archeage and the repopulation, but thats months to years before release.

PVP is not the main "theme" of a sandbox in any way, shape, or form. SWG for example, you could chose to be a civilian = no fighting at all minus beasts, a combatant = fight against faction npc's and beasts, or a full fledged special forces = full pvp combat with player, npc's, and beasts. That is the way mmo's should be. Not force you to do one or the other.

Tales of the deset = no pvp at all.

Shall i name more?

As I said A HUGE MISCONCEPTION..........

PVE/PVP has nothing to do with a game having sandbox elements.

The only game atm that comes close to a sandbox game atm is Minecraft. Because it can be modified to be turned into anything you can think of.  Any feature in Minecraft affects PVE and PVP. Server admins can install tools to determine if there is no PVP allowed, or just partly or FFA PVP. With the right server plugins, a server admin can even add lineair quests, dungeons, shape the world with specialised tools while the serverworld already exists.

That is a sandbox. Because the game's features and serverrules are not set in stone and can be changed to the player's likings.

MMO's atm can't even come close to this. The reason why FFA PVP is not making a MMO a sandbox is because it doesn't say anything about how you can use the rest of the game's features. Most of the time they are specifically just PVE or PVP and can't be used otherwise by the players if they would want to.

EDIT : An MMO example

SWG housing. This affects both PVE and PVP. Depending on the building type it could be a safe haven for a player flagged for PVP. So housing was a feature that was not just strictly PVE or PVP. Players could chose themselves on how to use it.

Most housing in nowadays MMO's. Strictly PVE. No choice to let it play a role for PVP at all. Or it is the other way around. It is forced for us in PVP areas.

You've became more shallow in your questions recently Ex.

Honestly Shadowbane and Pre-Tram UO could be seen like this.

But it was so much more because there were no rails. You didn't have to join a city, build walls, attack other player's castles. You could explore, craft crazy loot, go treasure hunting, play markets or anything really in those games.

That's the difference between sandbox and themepark. It's not the pvp aspect, a pvp focused themepark game would be a pvp focused themepark game because ultimately nothing could really change.

In UO players had an effect on the landscape. In Shadowbane players controlled territory and resources. Things changed dynamically.

Originally posted by MMOwanderer
You mean like adding a PVP server to a pve themepark and removing the majority of the actual pve content? 

yes. Look at Darkfall. Its nothing but a giant PvP Themepark server, with limited PvE content.

in today's terms, that would be considered a Sandbox.

all my sandbox definitions now  require, at a minimum,  the requirement to build sandcastles and to destroy them.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by MMOwanderer
You mean like adding a PVP server to a pve themepark and removing the majority of the actual pve content? 

yes. Look at Darkfall. Its nothing but a giant PvP Themepark server, with limited PvE content.

in today's terms, that would be considered a Sandbox.

darkfall is not a sandbox lol.

And some are pvp themed, some are not. You can not label an entire genre due to a few games being for the hardcore pvp'ers.

Its like saying all themeparks are kiddy, console based  rpg's, with eye candy galore, and no skill whatsoever to play................ oh wait................

Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

yes. Look at Darkfall. Its nothing but a giant PvP Themepark server, with limited PvE content.

in today's terms, that would be considered a Sandbox.

Actually in todays terms a themepark game with a lot of fluff is considered sandbox.

Lots of people were even wondering if GW2 is sandbox.

Sigh

Originally posted by Robokapp

what you describe is a case of the game being a themepark but the metagame being sandbox.

 

it's a weird mutant.

It's Darkfall.

Ok, lets look at my definition for sandbox gaming:

If you can create, modify, destroy and interact with persistent objects in a persistent world. And as more objects you can do this as more is the sandbox value.

Lets look at your theory:

Darkfall:

- all crafted items will count for that, even if we can argue how persistent those items really are, but at least if you killed someone, you would get all those items from that person. So a little bit more persistent than in other games. And no item is bind on equip or bind on pickup

- other players will count to some degree, although not really destoyable nor persistent

- and player towns will count

So, you have in Darkfall basicly 2-3 persistent objects you can create, modify, destroy and interact with.. thats not a great sandbox, but you can call it so.

Look at Planetside 2, another game with just PVP as main theme, or even only theme

well, and as much as i can recall there is no single one object you can create, modify, destroy and interact with, beside of other players. And i dont know how much other players even count, because they are actually not persistent. If you log out you are gone. And you cant destroy them.. at least as long as there is no permadeath.

So you have at most 1 persistent object you can change, and withit the world, if you count the other players. Not really sandboxy.

Now look at old UO: (or i could do the same with any other Sandbox)

- player crafted stuff(incl. Ships) and those stuff was even rather persistent, because you could drop it, log out, log in 3 hours later, and if noone took it away it was where you have dropped it

- houses, although the destroying was rather limited

- some other stuff, i cant recall at the moment

Take this test, and any sandbox will have more than one of those objects. And then look at themepark games, and they will have none or at least not more than one of those objects.

Everyquest: No object

WoW: No object.

GW2: No object

Edit/PS: The ideal sandbox would be a game like minecraft, where you can do that with all objects.

Edit2: And dont forget even the basic interact. And how many MMOs nowadays you can even sit down on a chair? Not even to talk about to destroy or create this simple chair.