Originally posted by CalmOceans

And to PvE raiding, if you fail to down a boss for months, then what? What did you lose? Some gold thats value has been inflated? Also, "hardcore PvE only" players calling people carebears amuses me. Its like Unreal Tournament players who play against godlike bots laughing at those who play is at as an e-sport.

 

What are you even doing looking at Everquest then, you're complaining about PVE and raiding, that is EQ, it's why EQ is still alive, in EQ 90% of the players are PVE raiders nowadays, log into the guild lobby and check out the gear, everything is PVE raided gear with very few exceptions. As for your question, what you lose if you fail to mobs are players, who leave the guild, PVE guilds constantly compete with each other and you need enough players to fill 54 spots every night, with 40 or less you're not killing anything and your guild dies, no on stays in a guild that drops below 40. Applying to a new guild means you lose all your DKP. In many guilds you don't see new loot for months after applying.

I hope EQNext is less about raiding and more about adventuring, but currently that's not the case.

Maybe your wish will be granted, that EQNext is some FFA PVP game where there isn't any raiding, but then you probably have a higher chance of winning the lottery and getting hit by lightning.

I am not complaining about PvE or raiding. I just stated that in my mind PvE is dull due to lack of risk vs. reward scenarios (P.S nice -snip- on that Siege PvP part, which would have explained what I was after). The thing I exactly hate about PvE, is the mindset that evolves around it. Such elitism to occur for the sake of bragging rights from defeating a script, people leaving the guild if you have some set backs etc. (I've been part of PvE raiding group, so I am speaking from experience). And on the contrary, there are PvP guilds you join for years and the ruthless murderers possess more loyalty, ironic.

I'm done with it. I bet many others are done with it. And "currently", we have Smedleys word, where kill, loot, kill loot, slay dragon boss for the 282 time for tier 800 gear won't exist. (He specificly mentioned "kill dragon x times for 800 tier gear". So, typical instanced raiding does not occur. But I bet there are open world bosses, the question is, will carebears (If someone frowned at this word, please refer to page 68-70, I've posted a carebear's term there, read it through and through) cause a shit storm if SoE attempts to incorporate raiding with open world and PvP, especially if they implement death penalties? Naturally, its most likely that SoE will create seperate servers for PvE and PvP, so I am asking this in regards on PvP servers.

For Smedley's "plans" he reveals something:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/20/soe-live-2012-john-smedley-on-eq-next-and-soes-future/

[QUOTE]This is a very interesting question. I think it's at the core of why what we're doing is sustainable. I'll go right to the heart of the matter. You get to the point where we make an expansion, and when I say we, I mean the entire MMO community. You make your expansion, the real hardcore players consume it in a month, and they're doing the raids over and over and over until the next round of live content that we put in. Typically, three or four times a year, we as MMO companies put new endgame in there to keep the raiders happy.

We absolutely need to build that style of content into every game we make because players want that. We're not talking about the end of raids, the end of this incredibly high-level content. We're talking about changing the nature of the world around it so that there's a lot more to do "in between" expansions. A good example, but a very narrow example, is battlegrounds in WoW or EQII, where players get bored doing it over and over again. But imagine the entire world as part of the interaction. Imagine seasons changing. Imagine if you're a Druid and you need to literally seek out reagents for your spells or worship your deity in a glade somewhere off in the wilderness, but you don't know where. Or image forests growing back after they're burned to the ground by invading forces. What we want is a dynamic world that gives all those other possibilities and doesn't just say OK, go to raid X with group composition of X, Y, Z, and kill the dragon for the 52nd time to get the tier 800 gear. It's this rinse-and-repeat gameplay that's got to change, and so we're changing it.[/QUOTE]

I like the "seek reagents part", Smedley clearly has been glancing at Ultima Online.

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Although, if this turns out to be some sort if fantasy eve (which I highly doubt)
I will
A) probably play it, it would be the first EQ game I would enjoy
B) laugh like hell at the epic whine which would come from the EQ fanbase
C) enjoy the irony that the founder of the themepark emerged as the saviour of sandbox
D) enjoy the irony that in just about every mmo I have betaed you got all these ex EQ players trying to make the game into a super grindy raid progression themepark with 0 pvp, then a new EQ comes along and does the opposite of what they try and make choose other mmos into.

Your dreaming if you think SOE and Smed would ever lose the feeling EQ and what made EQ the game it was.

EQ still has a vast following, it will be like coming home but coming home modern nday.

Really? Like EQ2 you mean? I wonder who's dreaming here?

Originally posted by Telil

Lets put this "eq was the origonal themepark" argument to bed with a simple fact.

There was no such term in mmo's as themepark back in 1999 and i challenge each one of you to find one.

EQ had a big open world that did not take you on a path progression. it not have quest hubs.

It was simply a world to play in. it was like you were given a world and a few tools to play inside with......wait a sec, outside my son has a big sqare box full of sand with a few tools to play in too. he cant take these tools apart and build them again but he can build the sand in any way he wants to.

Now in EQ back in 1999 you could not build the sand in anyway you wanted to, so it was not a complete sandbox, but it was coser to a sandbox than a themepark because we could go and do what we wanted ( with obvious mmo restrictions )

Another cheeky point about a sandbox is that if my son cuts his hand with one of those tools, it hurts him....almost like he is being punished for a mistake lol....but thats another argument haha!

If they could do a hybrid i would be happy....full sandbox? boring for me. i went sandbox crazy a few years ago and tried many. i soon found out that there was just no excitment for me. unless they throw tools into that big pit then i am not going in.

A bit of logical fallacy going on here, just because a term is coined after something exists does not mean that something can not be described by that term. In any case I remember the term themepark being used  on a list serve that Kosnner hung out on in 79 not coined by him if memory serves. Since you ask, no linky needless to say.

Incidetally, anyway you look at it EQ was 'gated' through and through.  Whether that prevents it being a sandbox I'll leave up to those who seem more concerned about that.

Originally posted by Tamanous

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by yorkforce

I think the fact he said sandbox 'style' is a prelude to a get-out-clause. This is hype talk to get people interested. The big AAA MMO companies are slowly coming around to the fact that players are wanting a proper sandbox mmo, just look at the top 5 development games on this site.

And people are finally waking up to the fact that the devs lie too. He better deliver on his promise because a lot of people aren't buying the lies anymore.

My money is on him lieing though until he can prove otherwise. I won't hold my breath.

Well there isn't enough information to prove it either way so the only thing you are expressing is your fear of dissapointment. When people grow up they start to learn they can be excited about something prior to proof knowing the outcome. Until more information comes available you can either continue expressing your insecurity or you can sit back and wait for information.

 

I simply say this because personally I would feel like a bit of a pansy crying on the forums about being afraid a game lets you down 2 years in the future. I think we can all agree that there is no certainty of success for any mmo.

i think we can all agree that the past are there and the wise one look to learn from it. if we take deep a look at Smedley past we can safely say that he is greedy and a professional bullshitter, so i wont hold my breath until some real facts come to the light of the day.

Smed has all but begged for forgiveness and not only stated he has learned from past mistakes but has made a small measure of headway into proving it with his approach to the PS2 development and beta.

He displays the traits of a man that was pulled into a bigger office than his own and was told "Unfuck yourself, your team, and your projects, or we will find someone that can." left that office and immediately wiped clean several dry-erase boards back in the development offices, called meetings, and puckered buttholes.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
I don't get this they are doing x in planetside 2 so eqn will have x argument.

If that was the case why is eq2 absolutely nothing like planetside1

PS2 and EQN are using the same game engine, Forge Light

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111555-EverQuest-Next-and-Planetside-2-To-Use-New-Forge-Light-Engine

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Venge

What I mean by progression pve is tiered raiding and what have you. You have to grind raid x to do raid y, then grind raid y to do raid z.

That is linear and in no way sandbox whatsoever, the two don't mix.

Ah.  That I agree with in essence.

I don't mind that someone might need to conquer a particular dungeon in order to get a particular weapon that is needed to kill something that can't be killed without it, or maybe a key to access a closed door.

But other than that having raids to get gear to do raids to get gear.... your right, not really sandboxy.

For instance, if you can buy the key item from another player in order to access a raid/dungeon/area then that's sufficiently sandboxy.

Anyway, with respect to PvP - I'm still expecting SOE to introduce EVE-style "security zones". These allow players to choose the level of risk and the style of PvP that suits their preferences. I'd expect EQN's "lo-sec" PvP option to be faction-based rather than "FFA but with NPC standings hits" like EVE's though.

Originally posted by Neherun

 

But I bet there are open world bosses, the question is, will carebears (If someone frowned at this word, please refer to page 68-70, I've posted a carebear's term there, read it through and through) cause a shit storm if SoE attempts to incorporate raiding with open world and PvP, especially if they implement death penalties? Naturally, its most likely that SoE will create seperate servers for PvE and PvP, so I am asking this in regards on PvP servers.

I wouldn't mind that but EQ had that at the beginning, EQ was open world raiding, the instances were a result of guilds griefing others. Guilds stayed up all night to make sure they got the spawn and grief'd others. Smedley tends to say a lot fo stuff, but he's not the main designer of the project, while open world bosses are nice, they caused issues in the past and that's why practically all raiding became instanced.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Neherun

 

But I bet there are open world bosses, the question is, will carebears (If someone frowned at this word, please refer to page 68-70, I've posted a carebear's term there, read it through and through) cause a shit storm if SoE attempts to incorporate raiding with open world and PvP, especially if they implement death penalties? Naturally, its most likely that SoE will create seperate servers for PvE and PvP, so I am asking this in regards on PvP servers.

I wouldn't mind that but EQ had that at the beginning, EQ was open world raiding, the instances were a result of guilds griefing others. Guilds stayed up all night to make sure they got the spawn and grief'd others. Smedley tends to say a lot fo stuff, but he's not the main designer of the project, while open world bosses are nice, they caused issues in the past and that's why practically all raiding became instanced.

Instances raiding has caused its own issues. IE cookie cutter characters, everyone has the same gear in the high end. EQ there were actually REAL  rare items due to very long world spawn timers. Even then some items would drop only very rarely. This created much more diversity between high levels between high levels. Instead of everyone being mirror copies of each other.  Open world bosses will actually help encourage guild warfare if open world pvp is involved. 

While I enjoy a good instance especially for its story telling capability. I have to say adventuring in hard challenging open and social environments even with contested mobs is a win in my book.

Look I just wanna run around and make some bandages and arrows and shitslap some afk medding robe with a wurmslayer i crafted myself, thats not too much to ask for.

Originally posted by Aelious
Shakymo

The comparisons between PS2 and EQN are strictly based on the graphics, lighting and physics that are in the Forgelight engine. You can find a video of Smed going down the list of features in FL.

I think you are spot on, other than the engine there probably won't be much in common between PS2 and EQN.

 from purely an efficiency perspective i would expect every possible asset to be utilized in both games since they are being designed concurrently on the same engine by the same studio. That only makes sense.

that does not mean that in any way they will look or play the same.

I do believe that territory control will be the theme of both games, but planetside 2 will be purely pvp and EQN might be PVE (pvp servers as well) or some combination.

They have said time and again that the gameplay will be different than any other mmo, and territory control is the next logical step in the evolution of the mmo. It makes sense to because planetside 2 has a ton of these capabilities already.

youll get your raids alright, but they will be on crushbone with 1000 of your best friends.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Neherun

 

But I bet there are open world bosses, the question is, will carebears (If someone frowned at this word, please refer to page 68-70, I've posted a carebear's term there, read it through and through) cause a shit storm if SoE attempts to incorporate raiding with open world and PvP, especially if they implement death penalties? Naturally, its most likely that SoE will create seperate servers for PvE and PvP, so I am asking this in regards on PvP servers.

I wouldn't mind that but EQ had that at the beginning, EQ was open world raiding, the instances were a result of guilds griefing others. Guilds stayed up all night to make sure they got the spawn and grief'd others. Smedley tends to say a lot fo stuff, but he's not the main designer of the project, while open world bosses are nice, they caused issues in the past and that's why practically all raiding became instanced.

By grief, do you mean that guilds killed other guilds in order to get themselves the raid that spawned, or guilds assaulting the guild thats doing the boss? That's not griefing, its about taking possession of the spawn. If you can't keep the spawn to yourself, you don't deserve it. Simple.

Originally posted by Neherun

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Neherun

 

But I bet there are open world bosses, the question is, will carebears (If someone frowned at this word, please refer to page 68-70, I've posted a carebear's term there, read it through and through) cause a shit storm if SoE attempts to incorporate raiding with open world and PvP, especially if they implement death penalties? Naturally, its most likely that SoE will create seperate servers for PvE and PvP, so I am asking this in regards on PvP servers.

I wouldn't mind that but EQ had that at the beginning, EQ was open world raiding, the instances were a result of guilds griefing others. Guilds stayed up all night to make sure they got the spawn and grief'd others. Smedley tends to say a lot fo stuff, but he's not the main designer of the project, while open world bosses are nice, they caused issues in the past and that's why practically all raiding became instanced.

 

By grief, do you mean that guilds killed other guilds in order to get themselves the raid that spawned, or guilds assaulting the guild thats doing the boss? That's not griefing, its about taking possession of the spawn. If you can't keep the spawn to yourself, you don't deserve it. Simple.

 

 open world raiding is when the monster of doom comes to your town and starts eating your merchants.

What shes talking about is non instanced raiding where guilds would compete to get the mob. Guilds would kill mobs whether they needed them or not to prevent other guilds from progressing. Thus instancing.

Oh the insanity of it all. Greifing is defined as interacting with a person in a way they dont approve of.

on a pvp server they call it gameplay.

Originally posted by rungard

Originally posted by Neherun

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Neherun

 

But I bet there are open world bosses, the question is, will carebears (If someone frowned at this word, please refer to page 68-70, I've posted a carebear's term there, read it through and through) cause a shit storm if SoE attempts to incorporate raiding with open world and PvP, especially if they implement death penalties? Naturally, its most likely that SoE will create seperate servers for PvE and PvP, so I am asking this in regards on PvP servers.

I wouldn't mind that but EQ had that at the beginning, EQ was open world raiding, the instances were a result of guilds griefing others. Guilds stayed up all night to make sure they got the spawn and grief'd others. Smedley tends to say a lot fo stuff, but he's not the main designer of the project, while open world bosses are nice, they caused issues in the past and that's why practically all raiding became instanced.

 

By grief, do you mean that guilds killed other guilds in order to get themselves the raid that spawned, or guilds assaulting the guild thats doing the boss? That's not griefing, its about taking possession of the spawn. If you can't keep the spawn to yourself, you don't deserve it. Simple.

 

 open world raiding is when the monster of doom comes to your town and starts eating your merchants.

What shes talking about is non instanced raiding where guilds would compete to get the mob. Guilds would kill mobs whether they needed them or not to prevent other guilds from progressing. Thus instancing.

Oh the insanity of it all. Greifing is defined as interacting with a person in a way they dont approve of.

on a pvp server they call it gameplay.

That clarifies me as a griefer, a major one. I'm surprised I haven't been sued. The best time I had was to infiltrate other guilds, working my way up to a level where they give me access to their resources, only to "deny" them of them, so whoever hired me could call in a siege knowing the enemy had clear disadvantage.

Originally posted by Neherun

Originally posted by rungard

Originally posted by Neherun

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Neherun

 

But I bet there are open world bosses, the question is, will carebears (If someone frowned at this word, please refer to page 68-70, I've posted a carebear's term there, read it through and through) cause a shit storm if SoE attempts to incorporate raiding with open world and PvP, especially if they implement death penalties? Naturally, its most likely that SoE will create seperate servers for PvE and PvP, so I am asking this in regards on PvP servers.

I wouldn't mind that but EQ had that at the beginning, EQ was open world raiding, the instances were a result of guilds griefing others. Guilds stayed up all night to make sure they got the spawn and grief'd others. Smedley tends to say a lot fo stuff, but he's not the main designer of the project, while open world bosses are nice, they caused issues in the past and that's why practically all raiding became instanced.

 

By grief, do you mean that guilds killed other guilds in order to get themselves the raid that spawned, or guilds assaulting the guild thats doing the boss? That's not griefing, its about taking possession of the spawn. If you can't keep the spawn to yourself, you don't deserve it. Simple.

 

 open world raiding is when the monster of doom comes to your town and starts eating your merchants.

What shes talking about is non instanced raiding where guilds would compete to get the mob. Guilds would kill mobs whether they needed them or not to prevent other guilds from progressing. Thus instancing.

Oh the insanity of it all. Greifing is defined as interacting with a person in a way they dont approve of.

on a pvp server they call it gameplay.

That clarifies me as a griefer, a major one. I'm surprised I haven't been sued. The best time I had was to infiltrate other guilds, working my way up to a level where they give me access to their resources, only to "deny" them of them, so whoever hired me could call in a siege knowing the enemy had clear disadvantage.

 

 ya you want to make sure that that playstyle is supported by the game. I would imagine that few would, maybe darkfall or other FFa games might, and even then thats the kind of think you probbabally only get away with once unless you have multiple accounts.

i have my doubts that kind of play will be tolerated well in an eq game to be honest with you no matter how they set it up.  

Paying attention to EQ2 new mechanics and content as well as planetside 2 will provide the best window into what we can see in EQN. Anything else is pure speculation.

Originally posted by pvpirl

Paying attention to EQ2 new mechanics and content as well as planetside 2 will provide the best window into what we can see in EQN. Anything else is pure speculation.

I agree, I like the sounds of the propaganda coming out of SOE but if I start hearing shyte like porting elements of the game onto smark devices so you can play it like farmville I am freaking out of 'ere. If that is there marketing plan over nurturing a pure in game community with a complex and deep rpg gameI will be greatly upset. SOE will be dead to me ... again. Right now I consider them more of a walking zombie until proven otherwise.