If they really want Endgame to start from level 1, than make that the only level.

The world is split into level ranges, and endgame zones reward best.

get rid of levels already. allow new and old players make characters and do what they like in terms of PvP and PvE.

Make the game more sandbox like.

can someone please clear up the definition of sandbox for me?

I thought it simply meant the option of player created content.

Also, if ANet follows their pattern, future expansions/content will focus on max level characters rather than low level content.

But I do understand where you are coming from.

I think it could've been pretty cool, if they'd done that from the beginning.. but a little too late for a change like that now.  Still, I voted yes, because I support the idea.

Not because I think it'd make the game more of a sandbox, though.  It would still be a themepark.. but an even more unique one, and the way its already designed, I think it would've worked pretty well overall.

Originally posted by ice-vortex
Levels do not determine if something is sandbox or not.

Perhaps not, but it does define those that arent. Levels = Themepark, not having levels is one of the factors that makes up a sandbox game.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by ice-vortex
Levels do not determine if something is sandbox or not.

Perhaps not, but it does define those that arent. Levels = Themepark, not having levels is one of the factors that makes up a sandbox game.

Really? So no sandbox games have levels, only themeparks?

Originally posted by Vorch

can someone please clear up the definition of sandbox for me?

 

I thought it simply meant the option of player created content.

 

If payer created content means something like player created quests as in Neverwinter for you, you are wrong. Sandbox means "player driven" in all aspects of the game: player driven progression, player driven economy, player driven politics, player driven environment, player driven combat & tactics,  ....

Levels are unusual in a sandbox, but could be feasible. Levels = thempark is an old urban myth like sandbox = Open PvP.

GW2 is a themepark and getting rid of levels would not make a sandbox out of it. However my first idea was too, that this game needs no levels, as it need no heartsquests. This was done to give more orientation to players, but ttis also leaded to a certain grade of linearity: the plague of all themeparks. Dont get me wrong, GW2 is refreshingly unlinear. But just inside of a zone. The world design is linear, due to level-oriented zones. Looking to PVE, you have to follow a path from Level 1 to 80, even if you ignore the personal story fully. The advantage compared to other themeparks is, that there are dozens of pathes you may follow and the pathes are very broad. 

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak

Originally posted by Vorch

can someone please clear up the definition of sandbox for me?

 

I thought it simply meant the option of player created content.

 

If payer created content means something like player created quests as in Neverwinter for you, you are wrong. Sandbox means "player driven" in all aspects of the game: player driven progression, player driven economy, player driven politics, player driven environment, player driven combat & tactics,  ....

Levels are unusual in a sandbox, but could be feasible. Levels = thempark is an old urban myth like sandbox = Open PvP.

GW2 is a themepark and getting rid of levels would not make a sandbox out of it. However my first idea was too, that this game needs no levels, as it need no heartsquests. This was done to give more orientation to players, but ttis also leaded to a certain grade of linearity: the plague of all themeparks. Dont get me wrong, GW2 is refreshingly unlinear. But just inside of a zone. The world design is linear, due to level-oriented zones. Looking to PVE, you have to follow a path from Level 1 to 80, even if you ignore the personal story fully. The advantage compared to other themeparks is, that there are dozens of pathes you may follow and the pathes are very broad. 

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak

Originally posted by Vorch

can someone please clear up the definition of sandbox for me?

 

I thought it simply meant the option of player created content.

 

If payer created content means something like player created quests as in Neverwinter for you, you are wrong. Sandbox means "player driven" in all aspects of the game: player driven progression, player driven economy, player driven politics, player driven environment, player driven combat & tactics,  ....

Levels are unusual in a sandbox, but could be feasible. Levels = thempark is an old urban myth like sandbox = Open PvP.

GW2 is a themepark and getting rid of levels would not make a sandbox out of it. However my first idea was too, that this game needs no levels, as it need no heartsquests. This was done to give more orientation to players, but ttis also leaded to a certain grade of linearity: the plague of all themeparks. Dont get me wrong, GW2 is refreshingly unlinear. But just inside of a zone. The world design is linear, due to level-oriented zones. Looking to PVE, you have to follow a path from Level 1 to 80, even if you ignore the personal story fully. The advantage compared to other themeparks is, that there are dozens of pathes you may follow and the pathes are very broad. 

 

levels are a themepark element. doesnt mean a more sandbox game cant have them. which is why I stated that no levels would make GW2 more sandbox like. Didnt mean it would make the game into a sandbox.

---

Originally posted by Phry

---

Originally posted by ice-vortex Levels do not determine if something is sandbox or not.

---

Perhaps not, but it does define those that arent. Levels = Themepark, not having levels is one of the factors that makes up a sandbox game.

---

There are MMORPGs that are sand box and have levels.

well after that derailment....

....yea GW2 should as a minimum remove half in not more levels. it is completely retarded that you have to go to level 80 when BGs make you level 80 with all your skills and WvW makes you level 80 (but doesn't give you all your skills).

remind me again, why does GW2 have 80 levels?

nobody knows..

---

Originally posted by Phry

---

Originally posted by ice-vortex Levels do not determine if something is sandbox or not.

---

Perhaps not, but it does define those that arent. Levels = Themepark, not having levels is one of the factors that makes up a sandbox game.

---

I don't agree. You can have levels in a sandbox. Eve, which I would consider a Sandbox-style game, does it very well, with Skillpoints. Sure, a player with just the starting amount of SP can still compete, but certainly not well against one with millions. Unless you want to call ISK the method of character progression (of which there is certainly a good case to do), and that brings up a can of worms that easily leads to P2W.

Sandbox doesn't necessarily equate to MMOFPS, where everyone just starts with a pistol and has to duke it out for whatever they can find in the world. There can be some character progression. I wouldn't go so far as to call GW2 a sandbox, but I will say that you can have levels in a sandbox - they aren't mutually exclusive concepts.

Everyone just takes the term "sandbox" and applies it to their own utopic vision of what they would like to have in a game, and then whines whenever the next game that comes out can't possibly live up to their expectations.

*edit*

To the OP: I agree in one sense - the game would feel a lot more fluid without levels. The fact that you can always go back (and it auto-downlevels you) makes it feel that way, but only in the downward direction. I like having some form of character progression, and some way of finding something that's just "way too f'n hard" and then eventually gaining enough character power (combined with practice and improving my own skill) to finally overcome the challenge. Levels provide one means of doing that - so if they were to go away I'd like to see ~something~ more or less take it's place (hopefully a bit more transparently than just discrete level numbers), but yeah, The game almost already doesn't have levels (or at least, once you finally hit 80 it's that way).

Amusing how some people still think sandbox = no levels. Even in UO, you can't enter the game with a level 1 and go kill a dragon, you'll have to raise your skills first.

Sandbox doesn't mean lack of progression. Even minecraft has progression.