How about checking the player's skill before they can advance a level or tier or whatever so that everyone at the top are guaranteed to know what they're doing. In other words, no one would be allowed to advance unless they show a certain measure of skill in the game. In the normal model everyone will eventually get to the top. Everyone. Even the most incompetent players you've ever seen playing any game will get to the end game eventually.

It bothers me in some games (particularly when I need to rely on my team mates) where there are clearly some players who just outright suck in everything. In World of Tanks if you pay a little extra you get to play with "the big boys" right away with zero game experience. And usually the side which has more of these "high tier noobs" loses. They are a burden to their team.

In games like Eve Online where you acquire skill points even when you're not playing, you are bound to come across a player who is flying a capital ship with very few hours put into the game. It shouldn't be possible!

Players should earn their advancement. If I encounter a high level player I should be able to expect some skill and knowledge from them. If some guy came up to you and said they've played through Ninja Gaiden, you can expect he knows how to play it. There is no way to brute force through the game, or just keep grinding lower level mobs. He needs to learn how to play, and pass through the skill barriers the game sets for him. You couldn't grind the first level in Mario to make the rest of the game easier either.

FFXI had an advancement  system called Limit breaks pre-Abyssea! Those fights tested you If you beat maat you could level up!

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/bestiary.html?fmob=1419

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Originally posted by Quirhid

It bothers me...

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I found your problem.

Personal bias never makes good basis for objective analysis.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Are you talking about pve or pvp?

Both, I guess. It sucks just as much if the people in your group seem like they just passed the tutorial and then you have to explain basics to these guys in an end game dungeon for example.

There are players in Eve who have played the game for 2 years and then they find out that Damage Control module is an active module (you have to put it on). Now you have to ask: Were they ever challenged in PvE? I mean, if you can play the game for two years and not know the basics... what the hell have you been doing?

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Are you talking about pve or pvp?

Both, I guess. It sucks just as much if the people in your group seem like they just passed the tutorial and then you have to explain basics to these guys in an end game dungeon for example.

There are players in Eve who have played the game for 2 years and then they find out that Damage Control module is an active module (you have to put it on). Now you have to ask: Were they ever challenged in PvE? I mean, if you can play the game for two years and not know the basics... what the hell have you been doing?

EDITED:

Removed a big old rant about the genre and players in general (not aimed at you in anyway in case you think that).

It seems to me the genre does little to nothing to really promote player improvement. PVE per say has never really been difficult (outside of a few raids perhaps). So there is little to encourage player development there.

In terms of pvp, outside of dedicated teams most players are simply "bad". But then the predominant form of pvp in mmos now is arean based. So the people in it are either casuals (bads), or already in dedicated teams anyway.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Are you talking about pve or pvp?

Both, I guess. It sucks just as much if the people in your group seem like they just passed the tutorial and then you have to explain basics to these guys in an end game dungeon for example.

There are players in Eve who have played the game for 2 years and then they find out that Damage Control module is an active module (you have to put it on). Now you have to ask: Were they ever challenged in PvE? I mean, if you can play the game for two years and not know the basics... what the hell have you been doing?

LOLed with the Damage Control Deal, dunno if the UI was different in that time, but active modules differ from the passive ones because of the overheating HP bar. its like the only way to know i guess.

Play LoL.  

Even with a horrible ELO system somone who plays at the 900 level will almost never be seen playing someone at the 1500+ level.   Very rare exceptions include things like playing with a friend and the 900 player hiring someone to advance their account.

Originally posted by anemo

Play LoL.  

Even with a horrible ELO system somone who plays at the 900 level will almost never be seen playing someone at the 1500+ level.   Very rare exceptions include things like playing with a friend and the 900 player hiring someone to advance their account.

Originally posted by Yodi2007

FFXI had an advancement  system called Limit breaks pre-Abyssea! Those fights tested you If you beat maat you could level up!

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/bestiary.html?fmob=1419

  Part of opening up the genre to every one is not only accessibility. But, forgiveness for not playing the best way possible.

- If you don't have enough time to play there is a cash shop to buy what you couldn't earn in game (paying for it doesn't mean you didn't earn it as your money supports the people who 'earn' everything and pay for nothing they don't absolutely have to).

- If your more interested in making money, you can still level if you stand around long enough while making that money. And, the money you make will buy you into OP status that will make up for your lack of actual skill.

- Can't stand the grind? Just wait on any given bonus xp event, leech, and afk for exp.

  These games for the most part, not made for the few elites that want challenge and expect that other should know what they are doing. They are made for the vast majority that require stupid, linear, mindless fun in order to open their pocket books. Hopefully upcoming games (Runescape 3, ArchAge, Yogventures etc.) will repair this trend of catering to drag foot, yawed jaws, and give MMO's back to their core, quality, players. But it is hard to make the argument to close the genre with the same weight that the argument carried to open it in the first place.

  And, for now MMO's are about one thing and one thing only, looking good regardless of how good you actually are.