Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Ambros123
Whats the big deal?

 

EVE had this and is a great for the new players.  Safe zones are limitied and with limited rewards, for greater rewards one must venture out into the free-for-all space where one can lose everything.

---

 

There are a few points you are missing.

1) Only about 15% of EVE player base actually venture out where one can lose everything.
2) Majority of the players do not care about greater rewards.
3) There is tons of content in safe zones.

I'm not sure which way you are meaning this so please excuse me if I am mistaken but I hope you are not implying that lot of players in DF:UW will actually stay in the starter cities and farm goblins because they are safe from attack? If so do you know how utterly pitiful the goblin loot is? No player will stay unless they have absolutely nowhere else to go.

---

Originally posted by Falesh

I'm not sure which way you are meaning this so please excuse me if I am mistaken but I hope you are not implying that lot of players in DF:UW will actually stay in the starter cities and farm goblins because they are safe from attack? If so do you know how utterly pitiful the goblin loot is? No player will stay unless they have absolutely nowhere else to go.

---

I would say you got it right. Some don't get it even after 3 years of launching their own product...

I've updated my original post in my thread on the official DF forums, mainly responding to points other people have bought up and providing solutions to them.

I can't read through every response here, and on the official forums... I do have a life too, surprisingly.

But basically, if these safe zones aren't done right, the whole game will revolve around safe zones. People won't "live" in their clan holdings. If you didn't play DF 1.0 you probably won't understand what the hell I'm babbling on about.

But the point of me doing this, is to provide AV with a solution instead of simply adding "100% safe for everyone zones". My solution provides 100% safe zones to EVERY newbie, and 99% safe cities (think EVE Jita) for everyone else.

I think it's a good solution, and I really hope Aventurine do read it.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Falesh

I'm not sure which way you are meaning this so please excuse me if I am mistaken but I hope you are not implying that lot of players in DF:UW will actually stay in the starter cities and farm goblins because they are safe from attack? If so do you know how utterly pitiful the goblin loot is? No player will stay unless they have absolutely nowhere else to go.

---

 

I would say you got it right. Some don't get it even after 3 years of launching their own product...

 

Then you know nothing about the game if you think people would kill goblins forever.

---

Originally posted by Adam1902

But basically, if these safe zones aren't done right, the whole game will revolve around safe zones. People won't "live" in their clan holdings.

---

And that is fine.

---

Originally posted by Falesh

Then you know nothing about the game if you think people would kill goblins forever.

---

Tell Aventurine, not me :)

Originally posted by Tayah

I can't believe people complain they can't kill a completely noob person. I mean, come on, what's the fun in killing someone you know you're gonna one shot. I love pvp to death, and any mmo I've played I always play a PvP server if possible, I like the sense of danger everywhere, but one thing I never, ever got was lowbie ganking.

I guess I prefer a real challenge, myself, someone I know that's going to put up a good fight and the fight could go either way. I find it absolutely boring and unchallenging killing lowbies that I just one shot. Yay, I just one shot that lowbie, and got their crappy gear... I just never got it. Guess you have to be a teenage little boy or a 20-30ish pathetic momma's boy living at home still getting your epeen on in a video game since you fail in real life, I dunno.

What I've usually found when playing pvp when I go out searching for those lowbie gankers is those people are absolutely terrible pvp players and that's probably why they're out there ganking lowbies, they suck.

People are worried the safe zones will be exploited by non noobs.

People are concerned that it is too much of a two tier system. Switching from 100% safe to utter anarchy (zero alignment systems) seems at face value a ridiculous system.

People are concerned that it looks like a total cop out from a team that can't manage to work an alignment system so have just decided to "turn off pvp" in a pvp centric game.

People are concerned that with the limited amount of content Darkfall has in comparision to say an EVE or a UO, that these safe zones are not the answer if they are trying to appeal to pve players. CONTENT is the answer, this appears to be a lame quick fix.

People wanted safer zones for noobs via npcs, via an alignment system actually worth something. Not artificial, "oh turn it off here" switches.

But yeah you are totally right, we are just unsure about it because we can't all group up naked and gank the shit out of noobs in noob town because we are scared of "real pvp" because we all suck.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Adam1902

But basically, if these safe zones aren't done right, the whole game will revolve around safe zones. People won't "live" in their clan holdings.

---

 

And that is fine.

Debatable.

I had planned to troll this post, but op is right:

All the racial capitals and satellite faction cities as well as surrounding areas where players will make their initial steps have all PvP actions disabled. Even players belonging to enemy clans will be unable to damage each other in those areas. The vast majority of the world of course remains as it was. As a side note, while NPC guard towers are now completely off as they serve no purpose, Player holding towers will continue to faction as before.

The identity of darkfall just left...sad

Originally posted by Galadourn

although I would have preferred an EVE approach to security for starting areas, I guess that this change will only be good for the general population of Darkfall.

However, the trully ideal approach would be to allow pvp but also allow players to call guards. But apparently that's too hard to implement for AV.

This is my stance on it really.

Allow killing anywhere but in main hubs have guards roaming and towers watching.  You hit someone you get ganked. 

EvE is the best model. You can do what you want but in hubs its hard to get away with it.  Not being able to hurt someone in a zone is just as unrealistic as killing anyone, anywhere without consequence.

Originally posted by chryses

Originally posted by Galadourn

although I would have preferred an EVE approach to security for starting areas, I guess that this change will only be good for the general population of Darkfall.

However, the trully ideal approach would be to allow pvp but also allow players to call guards. But apparently that's too hard to implement for AV.

This is my stance on it really.

Allow killing anywhere but in main hubs have guards roaming and towers watching.  You hit someone you get ganked. 

EvE is the best model. You can do what you want but in hubs its hard to get away with it.  Not being able to hurt someone in a zone is just as unrealistic as killing anyone, anywhere without consequence.

100% Agreed.

Originally posted by chryses

Allow killing anywhere but in main hubs have guards roaming and towers watching.  You hit someone you get ganked. 

Yeah right, that would help new players from griefers....not.

So if a new player try to kill a goblin, the griefer just run infront of him and get hit. The new player gets insta killed by towers and the griefer laughs.

My only objection to the new alignment system is that murderers and flagged players can walk into safezones. Within a month, 80% of the playerbase will be red because there is no reason not to be. If red players couldn`t enter safezones, that number might be reduced to 50%. :)

Originally posted by GwapoJosh
I like this..  Vets ganking new players was the absolute biggest reason people quit playing. I do think that new players should be able to kick the the crap out of each other in these "safe zones" though ;)

You never played DF i see.

Vets were never busy ganking new players.  In fact most vets would spot a new player and give them a bag of loot to help them out.

When the game launched new players ganked new players and that was a problem since everyone was in the same area though.

In DF vets were busy harassing other clans they were enemy too and looking for quality pvp not an easy gank...anyway there is never anything worth looting off a noob so they go for the well geared players.

I should add, your purposed scenario is always a fantasy that people who dislike games like this envision as reality in game, for whatever reason. Reality of DF was, aside from launch, that the starter areas were mostly quiet and empty, the only vets around were the ones who were not criminal and allowed to use the npc cities, and would spam craft junk, always looking for noobs to give their spam crafted items to.  Of course wandering near a hostile clans holding might get you ganked, no one would dry loot a noob with crap, and usually it would spark a conversation ect that would result in advice.

Not the fantasy hell where unstoppable vets stomped every new player they could find, no matter how good the fantasy sounds to your point of view on FFA full loot games.

Originally posted by Crunchy222

Originally posted by GwapoJosh
I like this..  Vets ganking new players was the absolute biggest reason people quit playing. I do think that new players should be able to kick the the crap out of each other in these "safe zones" though ;)

You never played DF i see.

Vets were never busy ganking new players.  In fact most vets would spot a new player and give them a bag of loot to help them out.

Wrong - I played a good 3-4 months at various stages of the game ; I was fodder for vets. That and the lack of real sand is why I left the game each and every time. The few times I asked why a Vet killed me I always got the same response " I needed throw away armor, or reagents. " I have many mates who also left for like reasons multiple times, Vet's were not this merry band of newbie friendly players. Some where ... those formed and supported the NEW Clan, most however were not and the contiual politics and agression towards the NEW clan is obvious testimony to it.

 In a FFA Full loot game you need sheep just as much as you need the wolves, to sustain a healthy population of sheep you must have a safe area either forced by mechanics or by players themselves to protect those sheep at times.  Granted a proper system within those safe zones should exsist to push the sheep out at times, for better loot and crafting.

Originally posted by Crunchy222

Originally posted by GwapoJosh
I like this..  Vets ganking new players was the absolute biggest reason people quit playing. I do think that new players should be able to kick the the crap out of each other in these "safe zones" though ;)

You never played DF i see.

Vets were never busy ganking new players.  In fact most vets would spot a new player and give them a bag of loot to help them out.

 

Thats complete BS, there where entire guilds whos sole purpose was killing noobs.  There was never a shortage of douchbags in Darkfall. My first day back for the current free play had "vets" trying to party/guild me just to gank me in town. 

Originally posted by Redemp

Originally posted by Crunchy222

Originally posted by GwapoJosh
 

Wrong - I played a good 3-4 months at various stages of the game ; I was fodder for vets. That and the lack of real sand is why I left the game each and every time. The few times I asked why a Vet killed me I always got the same response " I needed throw away armor, or reagents. " I have many mates who also left for like reasons multiple times, Vet's were not this merry band of newbie friendly players. Some where ... those formed and supported the NEW Clan, most however were not and the contiual politics and agression towards the NEW clan is obvious testimony to it.

 

 In a FFA Full loot game you need sheep just as much as you need the wolves, to sustain a healthy population of sheep you must have a safe area either forced by mechanics or by players themselves to protect those sheep at times.  Granted a proper system within those safe zones should exsist to push the sheep out at times, for better loot and crafting.

 

How many times did you get ganked in those 4 months, in how many hours played? How many times did you get repeatedly killed by the same person, over and over and over again?

Not all vets run around with sweetness and flowers no. You tend to end up dead a fair few times. Still I think back and can't really recall any strings of deaths, or any time someone griefed me over and over. I can though recall having a bank ram packed with stuff, most of which was given to me by random vets who could have simply smashed me into the ground at the time.