Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by grimal
There are certain people with this mindset.  However, isn't this mindset more prevalent in teenagers?  I honestly don't recall having met anyone like this for a long long time.

You can watch it happen with pop stars pretty often.  Groovy until they sell a few too many records, then the crowd turns.

No surprise, it happens with MMOs too.  The Marketing is pretty similar.

I can see that happening with the younger crowds.  But there are some...more mature folk here too.

Originally posted by grimal

I can see that happening with the younger crowds.  But there are some...more mature folk here too.

You mean  us 50-somethings?

What in the world led you to believe they're immune to peer pressure?  More resistant, at best.

Remember Celine Dion and that #&@*&$*^&! Titanic theme?  I hated the piece of crap with such a passion...simple overexposure...poor me, trapped in an office and cursed with 'lite rock' Musak that played it 1E+17 times a day, every day, for years... 

She'd best hope I'm never near Vegas with a weapon.

I rarely follow the mainstream because the mainstream seems to be not what I want most of the time. It' not because I want to portray a certain image.

Take PS3, if I followed the mainstream and look at the top 10 games I find:

Battlefield 3

Call of Duty

Mass Effect

Borderlands

Resident Evil

So .... 6 shooters.... that's the mainstream. Those 6 games are probably not the best PS3 games at all, it's just because the mainstream on consoles are boys who like playing with guns and the studios behind it have the money to deliver decent games, but that doesn't mean they are the best, they are the best known and get the best scores because they're popular.

Now take PS3 games that aren't  mainstream at all:

Folklore

Journey

They belong in that top and are way better than most generic shooters, but they are not mainstream at all, in fact I bet you every COD or Battlefield or Halo game outsells those games 10 to 1, but that doesn't mean they're bad games, they're just not mainstream.

Same with music, are Justin bieber or lady gaga really that good? They're just popular.

Maybe I've had different experiences with people in social environments, but I believe it's true, that in large groups, human beings are fucking stupid. Individually without any outside force or pressure, without the necessity to conform or receive guilt from our peers, a single person can be quite brilliant and rational. This is what I believe based on the experiences of my life.

So when someone says to me that something popular is worthwhile or succesful due to the expressed opinion of a large group of people, I feel a bit offended. Asking dissenters to think the way a majority thinks, or to do what the majority does simply because it's easy, is essentially asking me to stop critically analyzing the entertainment I ingest, and to do so would be stifling my personality, or what really makes me, "me".

"We are what we eat." Sound familiar? It applies to everything we consume, not just food.

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Maybe I've had different experiences with people in social environments, but I believe it's true, that in large groups, human beings are fucking stupid. Individually without any outside force or pressure, without the necessity to conform or receive guilt from our peers, a single person can be quite brilliant and rational. This is what I believe based on the experiences of my life.

 

So when someone says to me that something popular is worthwhile or succesful due to the expressed opinion of a large group of people, I feel a bit offended. Asking dissenters to think the way a majority thinks, or to do what the majority does simply because it's easy, is essentially asking me to stop critically analyzing the entertainment I ingest, and to do so would be stifling my personality, or what really makes me, "me".

 

"We are what we eat." Sound familiar? It applies to everything we consume, not just food.

Are you any different with say... TV-series: If I recommended Breaking Bad or Newsroom to you what would you say? (Seriously. Check out Newsroom if you haven't already)

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Maybe I've had different experiences with people in social environments, but I believe it's true, that in large groups, human beings are fucking stupid. Individually without any outside force or pressure, without the necessity to conform or receive guilt from our peers, a single person can be quite brilliant and rational. This is what I believe based on the experiences of my life.

 

So when someone says to me that something popular is worthwhile or succesful due to the expressed opinion of a large group of people, I feel a bit offended. Asking dissenters to think the way a majority thinks, or to do what the majority does simply because it's easy, is essentially asking me to stop critically analyzing the entertainment I ingest, and to do so would be stifling my personality, or what really makes me, "me".

 

"We are what we eat." Sound familiar? It applies to everything we consume, not just food.

Are you any different with say... TV-series: If I recommended Breaking Bad or Newsroom to you what would you say? (Seriously. Check out Newsroom if you haven't already)

You can probably imagine that I don't watch very much TV. In your specific examples, I'd probably tell you that I've thought about starting Breaking Bad several times, though never have, and that I absolutely detest Newsroom. Hopefully that's not a surprise.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Originally posted by Quirhid
 

What an amazing rant for accepting what you're given uncritically.  And just because something is popular because it's good at something that doesn't mean the thing is good. McDonald's is really good at marketing. That doesn't make McDonald's good.

The point is: there is no "fine dining" in MMOs, therefore the fastfood metaphor is trashed.

There has been fine dining in MMO's. You're inability to recognize it, doesn't mean it's not true.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by evolver1972

The masses don't always know what they're talking about.  Which is why true democracy sucks.

"Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are wiser than one man. How's that again? I missed something."

"Autocracy is based on the assumption that one man is wiser than a million men. Let's play that over again, too. Who decides?"

That's why I'm glad I live in a Democratic Republic....:)

Originally posted by Quirhid

Have you noticed how everything popular seems to be bad and everything unpopular seems to be the greatest thing on earth? We are surrounded by hipsters, I tell you. And I hate hipsters...

Its not like the games they like require a refined taste or anything. They're unpopular for a reason: they are crap. They love to make the McDonalds argument whenever it suits them, but when they encounter a game they like its like dining in a 3-Michelin-star restaurant. I've played enough games to know there's no such thing as refined taste. So take that fastfood metaphor and shove it.

I know when I'm playing a mediocre game, and I'm not afraid to say so. Pirates of the Burning Sea was one of them. But only because I'm a sucker for Age of Sail-games. I'd only give it 6/10 but I still found it entertaining for good 3 weeks. Not everything I play is a masterpiece.

So if something is popular, it must be good at something. Anyone who says "its full of shit" is talking out of their arse.

There. I said it. I feel better for it.

Honestly i have no idea what the hell your problem actually is. 0-o   Some people need to dislike something that is popular for the sole reason that it gives them a certain satisfaction. For those individuals they can feel like they are not one of those lemmings. Frankly I could not give a ddamn about something i like or dislike. Que Sera, Sera
.

Originally posted by Quirhid

They love to make the McDonalds argument whenever it suits them, but when they encounter a game they like its like dining in a 3-Michelin-star restaurant. I've played enough games to know there's no such thing as refined taste. So take that fastfood metaphor and shove it.

I haven't ingested fast-food for years, and now the smell makes me nauseous. All I ask for is a chess.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Quirhid

Doesn't matter. If you bring up up the Nazis or Hitler you lose the argument.

Kind of dubious if it constitutes an argument yet, as of the first response.

But you knew you were adopting a predjudicial stance, and so expected an argument, right?

(Careful, that's the classic, original definiton of "troll")

Its not prejudice, its an observation. Healthy critisism towards self-righteous posters who've become increasingly vocal lately. Anything mainstream is trash and anything they like and its under-appreciated.

Psh...

Ah! you're talking about GW2 fans then.... no wait a minute that must be wrong because GW2 is mainstream and under appreciated for its revolutionary gameplay, gamers just don't get it... that doesn't make sense when held up against your argument does it?

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Originally posted by Quirhid
 

What an amazing rant for accepting what you're given uncritically.  And just because something is popular because it's good at something that doesn't mean the thing is good. McDonald's is really good at marketing. That doesn't make McDonald's good.

The point is: there is no "fine dining" in MMOs, therefore the fastfood metaphor is trashed.

There has been fine dining in MMO's. You're inability to recognize it, doesn't mean it's not true.

We have only your word for it. What prevents anyone from claiming their preferred game is fine dining?

You need to prove that there is fine dining. I cannot prove a negative.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Originally posted by Quirhid
 

What an amazing rant for accepting what you're given uncritically.  And just because something is popular because it's good at something that doesn't mean the thing is good. McDonald's is really good at marketing. That doesn't make McDonald's good.

The point is: there is no "fine dining" in MMOs, therefore the fastfood metaphor is trashed.

There has been fine dining in MMO's. You're inability to recognize it, doesn't mean it's not true.

We have only your word for it. What prevents anyone from claiming their preferred game is fine dining?

You need to prove that there is fine dining. I cannot prove a negative.

Fine dining MMO's will be very niche as the cost to play will be high. Just like eating in a Michelin star restaurant.

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Quirhid

Doesn't matter. If you bring up up the Nazis or Hitler you lose the argument.

Kind of dubious if it constitutes an argument yet, as of the first response.

But you knew you were adopting a predjudicial stance, and so expected an argument, right?

(Careful, that's the classic, original definiton of "troll")

Its not prejudice, its an observation. Healthy critisism towards self-righteous posters who've become increasingly vocal lately. Anything mainstream is trash and anything they like and its under-appreciated.

Psh...

 

Ah! you're talking about GW2 fans then.... no wait a minute that must be wrong because GW2 is mainstream and under appreciated for its revolutionary gameplay, gamers just don't get it... that doesn't make sense when held up against your argument does it?

Man: So what are you all about?

Hippie:  I'm a non-conformist, an individual.  Fighting repression from the system.  I am my own person doing my own thing!

Man: So why the long hair, tie-died clothing and beads?

Hippie:  It's the uniform.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Have you noticed how everything popular seems to be bad and everything unpopular seems to be the greatest thing on earth? We are surrounded by hipsters, I tell you. And I hate hipsters...

Its not like the games they like require a refined taste or anything. They're unpopular for a reason: they are crap. They love to make the McDonalds argument whenever it suits them, but when they encounter a game they like its like dining in a 3-Michelin-star restaurant. I've played enough games to know there's no such thing as refined taste. So take that fastfood metaphor and shove it.

I know when I'm playing a mediocre game, and I'm not afraid to say so. Pirates of the Burning Sea was one of them. But only because I'm a sucker for Age of Sail-games. I'd only give it 6/10 but I still found it entertaining for good 3 weeks. Not everything I play is a masterpiece.

So if something is popular, it must be good at something. Anyone who says "its full of shit" is talking out of their arse.

There. I said it. I feel better for it.

I am a hipster

But I hate hipsters ...

I was a hipster since I was born - or let me use the right term for this NON-CONFORMIST

Its just my character, something in my blood.

Than in last few years we have this trend to hate everything mainstream , making you "HIP" and popular with "HIP" community.

I am just underlying the clear paradox of this. Being non conformist means you dont subscribe to trends. But they do.

Basicaly "hipsters" are fake.

However

And i can not stress this enough : popular =/= good ... at least not always.

Just look IMDB , you have mass vote there for movie rating. Yet some great movies have poor vote, and some shit have high vote. Why ?

Because real great works of art that move us - speak to limited number of people , when they speak to masses they are deluted in order to please everyone.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Have you noticed how everything popular seems to be bad and everything unpopular seems to be the greatest thing on earth? We are surrounded by hipsters, I tell you. And I hate hipsters...

Its not like the games they like require a refined taste or anything. They're unpopular for a reason: they are crap. They love to make the McDonalds argument whenever it suits them, but when they encounter a game they like its like dining in a 3-Michelin-star restaurant. I've played enough games to know there's no such thing as refined taste. So take that fastfood metaphor and shove it.

I know when I'm playing a mediocre game, and I'm not afraid to say so. Pirates of the Burning Sea was one of them. But only because I'm a sucker for Age of Sail-games. I'd only give it 6/10 but I still found it entertaining for good 3 weeks. Not everything I play is a masterpiece.

So if something is popular, it must be good at something. Anyone who says "its full of shit" is talking out of their arse.

There. I said it. I feel better for it.

Cancer's very popular and it is good at something, killing people. Let's embrace it.

Anyway. First things first, I love McDonalds.

Second, the "something popular so it must be good at something" argument. I'm trying to wrap my head around this one. I'm using Beiber for this as I don't follower popular culture. He's popular so he must be good at something.

IMO he's very average. Average singer, average songs(does he write his own songs?), average looking? So what the F is he good at? Making money? Manipulating what's trendy at the time to earn a fast buck? Thats not him doing it, it suits that are pulling his strings responsible.

Another thing, this has been going on for decades. People hating whats popular isn't going to change.

No I dont notice how everything popular is bad. What is bad is bad and something can be both popular and bad because there are tons of other metrics besides popularity which decides if a game is good or not. 

Innovation, difficulty, depth, virtual world etc are things I look for when deciding if an MMO is good or not. Something which games like WoW and all their clones lack.

And this goes for movies and other media as well. I for example think that Prometheus was trash, so was Avatar. Both were more about technical effects rather than story and for me story is nr 1 when it comes to movies.