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Hardware  » Windows Phone 8

16 posts found
  Gabby-air

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Joined: 7/20/08
Posts: 3447

 
OP  10/31/12 6:05:00 PM#1

After understanding the differences between all the different windows 8 platforms in my last thread, and therefore cancelling windows rt preorder and waiting on surface pro I'm still undecided on windows phone 8. I've had an iPhone for years and this year have been using a nexus alongside the nexus 7 tablet so i'm quite experienced with both platforms. But I'm in a situation where I need a new phone to switch carriers and the iPhone 5 and the Nexus 4 just aren't all that exciting. As such, I've been looking at windows phone 8 and in particular the Lumia 920 and also paying attention to the 8x and lumia 820. 

I know the whole app store situation in windows phone 8 but besides that there doesn't really seem to be any big downsides to the platform. And i've heard from multiple websites that due to the new kernel, getting the metro apps to work on all three platforms will be very easy and as such due to the large windows 8 consumer base (or soon to be), the phone will benefit from that and a lot more developers and apps can be expected. I've gone through the store and they are missing a bunch of apps i use on a daily basis. Standing at 120,000 apps right now over the course of two years and missing many big names, seems like developers were not very interested. Would it be reasonable to expect a huge surge in apps due to this compatiability?

Also, as someone who doesn't particularly dislike ios or android but is looking for something different is windows phone 8 a viable alternative? If someone has owned/extensively used one I would like to know your opinion. I have read many reviews on my own and overall the os comes highly praised and points seem to get docked for some minor annoyances and the app store. With most reviews being optimistic on the growth of the platform. 

  splitcold

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/07
Posts: 74

10/31/12 6:16:48 PM#2
Phones should be exciting? Thanks news to me. If you cant get the apps you use on a daily bases why would you even consider getting it if you cant use them for a unknown amount of time if ever. What do you really expect to happen with a windows 8 computer and phone? Sync you emails better, same lock screen or something easy? Really depends on your ablitly with devices people with no clue shouldn't get an android, better to stick with an iphone or windows phone.
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13319

10/31/12 7:04:39 PM#3

If you're going to buy a Microsoft Surface Pro, then you should be warned that its hardware will probably feel very dated, very soon after launch--and due to cheaper competitors, at that.  The day that either AMD Temash or Intel Silvermont Atom launch  (whichever comes first) is the day that Clover Trail Atom needs to be put out of its misery.  If you're fine with that, then go ahead, but just don't be surprised when it happens.

As for Windows Phone 8, don't confuse "easy to port applications from Windows Phone 8 to Windows 8" with "easy to port applications from Windows 8 to Windows Phone 8".  I haven't looked into how Windows Phone 8 works, but if you substitute Windows RT for Windows Phone 8, the former is true and the latter is not.  Not coincidentally, the latter is what would lead to a ton of apps and the former likely will not.

Will Windows Phone 8 get a ton of apps?  Did Windows Phone 7?  How about Windows CE?  If any app written for Windows Phone 7 or Windows CE could trivially be made to run on Windows XP/Vista/7, would that have changed the situation at all?  Just because you're creating software to run on Windows 8 doesn't automatically mean that you want to be tied to the Microsoft store--which gives Microsoft 30% of your revenue.  Nor does it automatically mean that you care if your software can run on Windows RT or Windows Phone 8.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10578

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

10/31/12 7:21:05 PM#4

I would recommend an iPhone. I have yet to see anyone who is unhappy with their iPhone. Not one person. I don't really see it myself, I think they're over priced...but a 100% satisfaction rating (from the people I know) is pretty impressive.

** edit **
Not sure if this matters, but the Windows Phone development path is separate from the Windows 8 and Windows Metro development paths. According to the developer documentation, you can develop for the Desktop/Tablet and then you would develop a separate application for the phone, even if they share business logic.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Gabby-air

Tipster

Joined: 7/20/08
Posts: 3447

 
OP  10/31/12 7:26:42 PM#5
Originally posted by Quizzical

If you're going to buy a Microsoft Surface Pro, then you should be warned that its hardware will probably feel very dated, very soon after launch--and due to cheaper competitors, at that.  The day that either AMD Temash or Intel Silvermont Atom launch  (whichever comes first) is the day that Clover Trail Atom needs to be put out of its misery.  If you're fine with that, then go ahead, but just don't be surprised when it happens.

As for Windows Phone 8, don't confuse "easy to port applications from Windows Phone 8 to Windows 8" with "easy to port applications from Windows 8 to Windows Phone 8".  I haven't looked into how Windows Phone 8 works, but if you substitute Windows RT for Windows Phone 8, the former is true and the latter is not.  Not coincidentally, the latter is what would lead to a ton of apps and the former likely will not.

Will Windows Phone 8 get a ton of apps?  Did Windows Phone 7?  How about Windows CE?  If any app written for Windows Phone 7 or Windows CE could trivially be made to run on Windows XP/Vista/7, would that have changed the situation at all?  Just because you're creating software to run on Windows 8 doesn't automatically mean that you want to be tied to the Microsoft store--which gives Microsoft 30% of your revenue.  Nor does it automatically mean that you care if your software can run on Windows RT or Windows Phone 8.

The pro runs i5 ivy bridge processors though not the atom and will be near a power outlet most of the time. 

As for the apps, sorry for the confusion but i was specifically talking about metro or now as their called windows store apps and not traditional windows software. I would assume windows being a big platform would bring a huge amount of developers and we will get lots of metro apps (be it just for rt or regular windows 8) which I was told were easy to port to windows phone 8 due to being the same kernel. As such, my hope was that all the big titles from android and ios were sure to come to windows through the metro ui and thus also be available on the phone if it was that easy as it seems microsoft went through big trouble getting the nt kernel on the phone for this very purpose. 

  Gabby-air

Tipster

Joined: 7/20/08
Posts: 3447

 
OP  10/31/12 7:29:26 PM#6
Originally posted by lizardbones

I would recommend an iPhone. I have yet to see anyone who is unhappy with their iPhone. Not one person. I don't really see it myself, I think they're over priced...but a 100% satisfaction rating (from the people I know) is pretty impressive.

I have nothing against the iPhone, I also recommend it to anyone who asks me and believe it is the best phone out there but i've had one for years and I'm just bored with mine and after switching to android I had some fun flashing roms and rooting but it's basically the same experience across the platforms. Windows phone is just different and refreshing to use, although i've had little time with it I really liked it. 

  Gabby-air

Tipster

Joined: 7/20/08
Posts: 3447

 
OP  10/31/12 7:34:44 PM#7
Originally posted by splitcold
Phones should be exciting? Thanks news to me. If you cant get the apps you use on a daily bases why would you even consider getting it if you cant use them for a unknown amount of time if ever. What do you really expect to happen with a windows 8 computer and phone? Sync you emails better, same lock screen or something easy? Really depends on your ablitly with devices people with no clue shouldn't get an android, better to stick with an iphone or windows phone.

Well if I'm spending over $600 on a phone, I want some excitement and a refreshign experience than what i've already had. As for apps, I can always just use the actual websites instead and most major games are already there so not too much of an issue just going forward it would be nice to have a better slection.

And not buying the phone just because I have windows 8, i'll be sticking with windows 7 and just get a laptop/tablet running windows 8 in the future but it still has benefits, specifically skydrive syncing and office.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13319

10/31/12 7:37:21 PM#8

In the past, developing software for Windows hasn't meant that developers wanted to go through a Microsoft store if they didn't have to.  Remember Games for Windows?  If you don't, that's the point.  What will make Metro any different?  Will developers really be inclined to give 30% of their revenue in Windows 8 applications to Microsoft in exchange for being able to offer the application on Windows RT and Windows Phone 8, which are both likely to have very few users?

-----

Ah, my mistake on the hardware for Windows Surface Pro.  I guess I had just been going by old rumors that ended up being wrong.  Regardless, using an Ivy Bridge dual core brings its own set of problems.  A TDP of 17 W is an awful lot for a tablet (for comparison, AMD's new Hondo is 4.5 W, and even that's something of a power hog as tablets go), which means it's inevitably going to be thick, heavy, and expensive for a tablet.  Idle power consumption is going to be very, very high for a tablet, too, which will zap the battery life.  Haswell will be a huge advance in both of those areas (10 W TDP, about 5% of the idle power consumption), though it's also going to be expensive.

Intel charges a lot for their Core i5 processors, too.  They'll charge a lot for Haswell, too, but don't expect the Surface Pro to go for $500.  It's more likely that you'll be looking at a price tag in the ballpark of $1000.

  Gabby-air

Tipster

Joined: 7/20/08
Posts: 3447

 
OP  10/31/12 8:28:51 PM#9
Originally posted by Quizzical

In the past, developing software for Windows hasn't meant that developers wanted to go through a Microsoft store if they didn't have to.  Remember Games for Windows?  If you don't, that's the point.  What will make Metro any different?  Will developers really be inclined to give 30% of their revenue in Windows 8 applications to Microsoft in exchange for being able to offer the application on Windows RT and Windows Phone 8, which are both likely to have very few users?

-----

Ah, my mistake on the hardware for Windows Surface Pro.  I guess I had just been going by old rumors that ended up being wrong.  Regardless, using an Ivy Bridge dual core brings its own set of problems.  A TDP of 17 W is an awful lot for a tablet (for comparison, AMD's new Hondo is 4.5 W, and even that's something of a power hog as tablets go), which means it's inevitably going to be thick, heavy, and expensive for a tablet.  Idle power consumption is going to be very, very high for a tablet, too, which will zap the battery life.  Haswell will be a huge advance in both of those areas (10 W TDP, about 5% of the idle power consumption), though it's also going to be expensive.

Intel charges a lot for their Core i5 processors, too.  They'll charge a lot for Haswell, too, but don't expect the Surface Pro to go for $500.  It's more likely that you'll be looking at a price tag in the ballpark of $1000.

The thing is, people I know seem to be really digging the metro apps. A good 30% of everyone I know has already upgraded to Windows 8 and the others are just getting more information before they do or just waiting for boxing day to get a new laptop running it. The one's who aren't upgrading are people like me and you that would have slowdowns in practical use or the more tech savvy group, and I know of very few people like that. In that sense, I see metro apps being quite popular for the regular folk, just not for businesses or enterprise. And if people expect to find apps in the store from now on, putting them there would just make sense since it's only a 20% cut after the first $25,000 and Mac seems to have lots of software on its store. 

Haswell seems to be coming out in March so I guess I could wait it out, more battery life never hurt but hoping a decent hybrid actually runs it. And I'm fine paying up to $800 for it, if prices are even higher I'll just stick with a traditional laptop. Big spending on tech this year now that I look back, and still need a phone and laptop...the joys of being really curious to try new tech. 

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13319

10/31/12 8:42:18 PM#10

iOS gets software development because it has market share.  If Windows RT or Windows Phone 8 are soon used by tens of millions of people, they'll get a lot of software development, too.  And if they don't sell a zillion devices, then they won't get the software.  But you already knew that.  Will they?

My personal guess is that Google Android will remain the dominant OS in phones for years to come, and soon overtake iOS in tablets, too.  iOS will remain an important niche player in both markets, just as Mac OS X is an important niche player in laptops and all-in-ones.  (Well, Mac OS X probably has the bulk of the market for all-in-ones, but it's a small market.)  Windows 8 will get considerable market share in tablets, and probably eventually beat iOS there, but it will take quite a while.  Windows RT will make sense for a narrow niche for a while, but soon die because anything Windows RT can do, some other OS (sometimes Windows 8!) can do better.  And Windows Phone 8 will fare about as well as Windows Phone 7 did--which is to say, not very.

That is, of course, just a guess.  You may have your own guess, and your own guess might even be better than mine.

  Cleffy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/09/04
Posts: 5503

11/01/12 2:06:53 AM#11

I have a Windows Phone 7, and its a really good phone.  The reason why is simple, its development platform is eons ahead of iOS and Android.  Its more effecient, and easier to develop for.  It does not cost as much to develop for as either of the other platforms.  This is why apps built for Android designed for its best hardware still run on a 1Ghz single core on the Windows Phone when ported.  Windows Phone 8 is not as effecient, but its even easier to develop for.

As far as current Microsoft Strategy, I find it all over the place which is a bad move.  A little bit of planning and consolidation would make the current Microsoft environment more appealing.  First you have 3 OSs.  Windows 8, Windows RT, and Windows Phone 8.  Windows RT and Windows Phone 8 could easily be developed on the same OS reducing the size of Windows RT.  Its not like Windows 8 apps can be ported to Windows RT easily.  Then there is the confusing Microsoft services.  You have Microsoft Live and Microsoft Outlook performing email functions.  You have the skydrive which automatically connects your phone to anything in your skydrive.  You have XBox Live which is seperate from Microsoft Live.  You have XBox Music which is seperate from Zune.  Then you have Microsoft and XBox points.  Its really fractured, and getting their shit straight on the platform would help alot.

  Gabby-air

Tipster

Joined: 7/20/08
Posts: 3447

 
OP  11/02/12 7:38:59 PM#12

I guess it basically boils down to risk and how optimistic I am that the platform will be big, looking at latest stats windows phone is the 5th platform and I'm betting they'll become third. That doesn't mean developers will still come, android rocks ios in market share yet games still seem to come to ios first and only lately have I seen the major players releasing games on both platforms at the same time. As cleffy mentioned it's easier to develop for windows phone and since every one would have just 3 resolutions and the same processor we can expect much better optimized apps. Just a question of if the third platform is work developing for.

Guess i'll see what really does end up suiting me now rather than what will in the future and make a decision. Thanks everyone as usual for the great help!

  User Deleted
11/02/12 7:56:37 PM#13
I will be buying a Windows Phone 8.  I've had the chance to demo the device and color me impressed.  I've been an avid Android user, while I've also previously owned an iPhone 4 and stil own an iPad.   Finally Microsoft has built a phone that's up to par with what's out there.  It took them long enough.  I'm purchasing one as soon as my carrier makes it available.
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13319

11/02/12 7:59:39 PM#14
Originally posted by Gabby-air

I guess it basically boils down to risk and how optimistic I am that the platform will be big, looking at latest stats windows phone is the 5th platform and I'm betting they'll become third. That doesn't mean developers will still come, android rocks ios in market share yet games still seem to come to ios first and only lately have I seen the major players releasing games on both platforms at the same time.

That's largely true.  It's also a question of how much you care about having lots of apps available.  Some people just want their phone to ring, though you're presumably not one of them.

There's a self-fulfilling prophecy aspect to it to a considerable degree, which makes it harder to predict.  If everyone thinks that a given OS is awesome, but no one thinks it will catch on, then hardly anyone buys it, and then developers don't create software for it because there isn't a market for it.

As for development, it's not so much the ranking as the percentage market share.  Third place with a 20% market share will get a lot of development.  Third place with 1% market share will get ignored.

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2642

11/03/12 2:34:01 AM#15

I am looking at getting a W8 phone also, read an article the other day that Microsoft is paying app developers 10% of a higher share than the competition, and the apps, if they do not work on all platofrms, are supposedly easy to modify.  The windows phone market may not attract a ton of app makers at first, but they think the potential to get on the windows 8 desktop is enticing, with the extra money.

 

They also said they were offering free tablets, and opening up corporate to help inspiring app developers....If it all works?  Who knows, but it sounds like they are all in.

 

I use a windows PC (will be getting a new PC probably within the year, so I may also have windows 8), so if I pick up some perks from using both the PC and phone, great.....I do not own a tablet/lap top, but the wife has been wanting one...I will wait for that market to mature a little more.

 

I saw price of the Windows Pro tablet conjectured about, and from what I have seen, it will be $999, from a website that I saw that was taking pre-orders the other day....So it could change, but the $1000 was about right.

 

  Arcondo87

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/12
Posts: 99

11/03/12 2:42:25 AM#16

i still dont understand why ppl want iphones so bad....android and every other smartphone out there offers EVERYTHING and more than the iphone does for 1/2 the price....for refrence please see my linked video...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aigwu-3-XJw&feature=related