Originally posted by Cakeisyummeh
Or the servers have a lot lower capacity.

I saw big foot in fort Aspendwood server too.

Originally posted by drDamage

Originally posted by maddhatter44

Low server capacity + halloween event = full servers.

 

but hey good for them.

This is right on point. I mean really where do WvW ques come from? Its basically saying "All our piece of crap servers can handle is 240 people in a WvW arena". I have no idea of the actual number and I don't think Anet publicizes that info but 240 is probably close to whats allowed in a WvW instance. The geography of the map would certainly support more so why the ques?

I'm starting to think this is the main issue.  They don't have the technology to fill their sizeable gameworld.  I don't know if they lack funds for better servers, or the code is poorly optimized or what.. but full servers should do a much better job of filling the game with players.

They also need a much better LOD system, so that they can ditch culling entirely.  The player pop-in is pretty lame in PvE, but utterly gamebreaking in PvP.

Originally posted by drDamage

Originally posted by maddhatter44

Low server capacity + halloween event = full servers.

 

but hey good for them.

This is right on point. I mean really where do WvW ques come from? Its basically saying "All our piece of crap servers can handle is 240 people in a WvW arena". I have no idea of the actual number and I don't think Anet publicizes that info but 240 is probably close to whats allowed in a WvW instance. The geography of the map would certainly support more so why the ques?

I am looking for the exact quote but Anet claimed they can handle upto 400 players or more without any problem in W v W.

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Originally posted by drDamage

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Originally posted by lizardbones I look at a lot of things when I'm trying to decide if an MMO is 'good' or not. The most important one is how the people I game with are playing the game. How much time are they putting into the game? How interested are they when they talk about the game? Are they even talking about the game still? The response to GW2 has been different from the response to Rift, SWToR and D3. They are interested in the game, and they continue to discuss the game around the office on a regular basis. They started with more than 12 hours a day game time, but have slacked off to about 4 hours a day, nearly every day. The game has been at the 4 hours a day, every day state for a few weeks. So...what does that mean? To me, it means that GW2 is a good game.

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Probably means more along the lines of ; There's nothing but crap on TV anyway and GW2 is B2P so the bar drops substantialy right there for many people. I can tell you if I was paying 15 bucks a month I'd almost certainly cancell.

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Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by drDamage

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Originally posted by lizardbones I look at a lot of things when I'm trying to decide if an MMO is 'good' or not. The most important one is how the people I game with are playing the game. How much time are they putting into the game? How interested are they when they talk about the game? Are they even talking about the game still? The response to GW2 has been different from the response to Rift, SWToR and D3. They are interested in the game, and they continue to discuss the game around the office on a regular basis. They started with more than 12 hours a day game time, but have slacked off to about 4 hours a day, nearly every day. The game has been at the 4 hours a day, every day state for a few weeks. So...what does that mean? To me, it means that GW2 is a good game.

---

Probably means more along the lines of ; There's nothing but crap on TV anyway and GW2 is B2P so the bar drops substantialy right there for many people. I can tell you if I was paying 15 bucks a month I'd almost certainly cancell.

---

Give it up. People are enjoying the game. They are happy to be playing GW2.

 

Agree Lizardbones

I would quit paying 15 bucks a month too for any game because the sub money goes nowhere. it's vapor after it leaves your account. Thank GOD Anet decided not to do that but still provide the quality and quantity of content every game should have at start. :) good launch too. Guess that's why all the players including me are sticking with them.

I logged in last night after a few weeks and all i saw was Rangers named Askwq, Askwr, Askws, and fdff all running the same pattern with a bear following them.  And when they died they just respawned and continued to run the same pattern.

I guess the good side is the bots count towards concurrent players too and help make the servers look busier than they would normally be.

You aouldhave thought NCDoft would have got a handle on this by now as all their games end up infested.

Originally posted by TalulaRose

I logged in last night after a few weeks and all i saw was Rangers named Askwq, Askwr, Askws, and fdff all running the same pattern with a bear following them.  And when they died they just respawned and continued to run the same pattern.

I guess the good side is the bots count towards concurrent players too and help make the servers look busier than they would normally be.

 

You aouldhave thought NCDoft would have got a handle on this by now as all their games end up infested.

 

here's a posting from Colin Johanson

Hey folks,

Since it has been a few weeks since we gave an update on this, just wanted to quickly update where we stand. We recently hired an entire new team of people with one mission in mind: operation bot destruction.

They’ve been getting everything in place to accomplish our goal of making botting, hacking, spamming, and malicious behavior as non-existent as possible in Gw2. In the last few weeks, over 10,000 bot accounts were banned from the game alone. Another area of massive improvement has been in account security, where our two-factor authentication as well as your password changes have led to account thefts dropping to a tiny rate. A vast majority of account thieves use those accounts to run bots and/or perform RMT transactions, so our serious beefing up of account security has led to fewer bots, and most importantly fewer stolen accounts. That being said, we have massive improvements on the way in the next couple of weeks that help us detect, verify, and remove botters.

What we don’t want to do is have someone report you as botting, we ban the account, the bot appeals, and we have no data to prove they were botting on file so we have to give them the account back. Ensuring we have 100% clear data on bots that’s incredibly easy for our GM team to quickly verify, and when an appeal is submitted verify within seconds if the person was truly botting is our most important goal. We don’t want to ban people who were not botting, and we want to keep the people who are permanently locked out.

Bottom line: We’re doing ok, but we know we can and need to do much better on this front and are putting massive resources behind ensuring we have a permanent solution to this issue. You’ll see a dramatic improvement in this area in the next few weeks as our remaining detection and bot destruction tools and staff come online.

We’ll continue to keep updating on this front as we go forward, but rest assured we are aware of issues folks are raising and take them incredibly seriously. From FOV to bots, account restoration to more awesome stuff to do at level 80 we have teams working like mad on all of these fronts.

Personally I think that the main reason that Anet doesn't allow more people into their WvW worlds is because of the limitations of peopl'es computers.  With as they are now, my computer BARELY handles things when there are about 100 or more players all fighting at a keep.  I'm sure I'm not alone with this fact either, not everybody can have super leet computers.  So if they bumped up the count, and there are substantially more players all in one place, my computer would crash easily, all the time.

The WvW limitations are just a way to keep things running smoothly for their players.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by drDamage

Originally posted by maddhatter44

Low server capacity + halloween event = full servers.

 

but hey good for them.

This is right on point. I mean really where do WvW ques come from? Its basically saying "All our piece of crap servers can handle is 240 people in a WvW arena". I have no idea of the actual number and I don't think Anet publicizes that info but 240 is probably close to whats allowed in a WvW instance. The geography of the map would certainly support more so why the ques?

 

I'm starting to think this is the main issue.  They don't have the technology to fill their sizeable gameworld.  I don't know if they lack funds for better servers, or the code is poorly optimized or what.. but full servers should do a much better job of filling the game with players.

 

They also need a much better LOD system, so that they can ditch culling entirely.  The player pop-in is pretty lame in PvE, but utterly gamebreaking in PvP.

Here we go again.

Do you see many FPS based games with 64 or more people maps?

Why don't those maps have more than that? They don't even have NPCs.

You know why?

Physics.

Do you know why most MMORPGs only let you hit what you have tab targetted and nothing else?

To save the work of calculating the projectiles and other bodies physics.

Do you know why most games have no body colision (even GW2 ditched full body for only objects that are attacking each other or are the target)?

Same reason.

That is why the damage in WoW is dealt when you press the button opposed to GW2 where the damage occurs when the animation connect.

You guys think that is something trivial to do?

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Vhaln

 

I'm starting to think this is the main issue.  They don't have the technology to fill their sizeable gameworld.  I don't know if they lack funds for better servers, or the code is poorly optimized or what.. but full servers should do a much better job of filling the game with players.

 

They also need a much better LOD system, so that they can ditch culling entirely.  The player pop-in is pretty lame in PvE, but utterly gamebreaking in PvP.

Here we go again.

Do you see many FPS based games with 64 or more people maps?

Why don't those maps have more than that? They don't even have NPCs.

You know why?

Physics.

Do you know why most MMORPGs only let you hit what you have tab targetted and nothing else?

To save the work of calculating the projectiles and other bodies physics.

Do you know why most games have no body colision (even GW2 ditched full body for only objects that are attacking each other or are the target)?

Same reason.

That is why the damage in WoW is dealt when you press the button opposed to GW2 where the damage occurs when the animation connect.

 

You guys think that is something trivial to do?

I'm trying to think of how to approach this, but all I can manage is.. huh?

You're really grasping, here.  I don't know how else to say it.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by TalulaRose

I logged in last night after a few weeks and all i saw was Rangers named Askwq, Askwr, Askws, and fdff all running the same pattern with a bear following them.  And when they died they just respawned and continued to run the same pattern.

I guess the good side is the bots count towards concurrent players too and help make the servers look busier than they would normally be.

 

You aouldhave thought NCDoft would have got a handle on this by now as all their games end up infested.

 

here's a posting from Colin Johanson

 

Hey folks,

Since it has been a few weeks since we gave an update on this, just wanted to quickly update where we stand. We recently hired an entire new team of people with one mission in mind: operation bot destruction.

They’ve been getting everything in place to accomplish our goal of making botting, hacking, spamming, and malicious behavior as non-existent as possible in Gw2. In the last few weeks, over 10,000 bot accounts were banned from the game alone. Another area of massive improvement has been in account security, where our two-factor authentication as well as your password changes have led to account thefts dropping to a tiny rate. A vast majority of account thieves use those accounts to run bots and/or perform RMT transactions, so our serious beefing up of account security has led to fewer bots, and most importantly fewer stolen accounts. That being said, we have massive improvements on the way in the next couple of weeks that help us detect, verify, and remove botters.

What we don’t want to do is have someone report you as botting, we ban the account, the bot appeals, and we have no data to prove they were botting on file so we have to give them the account back. Ensuring we have 100% clear data on bots that’s incredibly easy for our GM team to quickly verify, and when an appeal is submitted verify within seconds if the person was truly botting is our most important goal. We don’t want to ban people who were not botting, and we want to keep the people who are permanently locked out.

Bottom line: We’re doing ok, but we know we can and need to do much better on this front and are putting massive resources behind ensuring we have a permanent solution to this issue. You’ll see a dramatic improvement in this area in the next few weeks as our remaining detection and bot destruction tools and staff come online.

We’ll continue to keep updating on this front as we go forward, but rest assured we are aware of issues folks are raising and take them incredibly seriously. From FOV to bots, account restoration to more awesome stuff to do at level 80 we have teams working like mad on all of these fronts.

OK well I understand ArenaNets interest in getting the bots under control afterall the only people they hurt are AenaNet and people with lax security protocols.

I for one would rather you leave the BOTs alone and address the terrible performance of your game engine in large encounters.

Originally posted by slicknslim88

Personally I think that the main reason that Anet doesn't allow more people into their WvW worlds is because of the limitations of peopl'es computers.  With as they are now, my computer BARELY handles things when there are about 100 or more players all fighting at a keep.  I'm sure I'm not alone with this fact either, not everybody can have super leet computers.  So if they bumped up the count, and there are substantially more players all in one place, my computer would crash easily, all the time.

The WvW limitations are just a way to keep things running smoothly for their players.

Its really a lot less to do with clent pc performance than server performance. All the critical "math" is done server side. You'd have to have pretty sad PC equipment before you'd start having big performance problems, assuming you weren't being ridiculous with graphics expectaions. Heck i'd take "stick figures" as opossed to waking up dead under 35 people I neither saw nor heard prior to dieing.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Vhaln

 

I'm starting to think this is the main issue.  They don't have the technology to fill their sizeable gameworld.  I don't know if they lack funds for better servers, or the code is poorly optimized or what.. but full servers should do a much better job of filling the game with players.

 

They also need a much better LOD system, so that they can ditch culling entirely.  The player pop-in is pretty lame in PvE, but utterly gamebreaking in PvP.

Here we go again.

Do you see many FPS based games with 64 or more people maps?

Why don't those maps have more than that? They don't even have NPCs.

You know why?

Physics.

Do you know why most MMORPGs only let you hit what you have tab targetted and nothing else?

To save the work of calculating the projectiles and other bodies physics.

Do you know why most games have no body colision (even GW2 ditched full body for only objects that are attacking each other or are the target)?

Same reason.

That is why the damage in WoW is dealt when you press the button opposed to GW2 where the damage occurs when the animation connect.

 

You guys think that is something trivial to do?

 

I'm trying to think of how to approach this, but all I can manage is.. huh?

You're really grasping, here.  I don't know how else to say it.

"Huh?" is good!

Originally posted by KhinRunite
Wow drDamage, you're on a roll! Down with GW2!!! :)

Not really... Just a long long way from "outstanding", I'm sure I'll get my "Fifty bucks worth" and throw it on the pile...

Originally posted by drDamage

Originally posted by KhinRunite
Wow drDamage, you're on a roll! Down with GW2!!! :)

Not really... Just a long long way from "outstanding", I'm sure I'll get my "Fifty bucks worth" and throw it on the pile...

whatever helps anyone sleep at night right =)

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Here we go again.

Do you see many FPS based games with 64 or more people maps?

Why don't those maps have more than that? They don't even have NPCs.

You know why?

Physics.

Do you know why most MMORPGs only let you hit what you have tab targetted and nothing else?

To save the work of calculating the projectiles and other bodies physics.

Do you know why most games have no body colision (even GW2 ditched full body for only objects that are attacking each other or are the target)?

Same reason.

That is why the damage in WoW is dealt when you press the button opposed to GW2 where the damage occurs when the animation connect.

 

You guys think that is something trivial to do?

 

I'm trying to think of how to approach this, but all I can manage is.. huh?

You're really grasping, here.  I don't know how else to say it.

I'm grasping?

You can just say you have no idea how a physics engine work and that is why you don't grasp how it can affect server load.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collision_detection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_engine

GW2 uses the Havok engine.

http://www.mmogamer.com/04/04/2008/collision-detection-that-is-the-question

"The singular issue that offers the most nuance to the genre, and the idea that intrigues me, is collision detection in PvP. Collision detection is a term referring to the interaction between two objects, for example, avatars in MMOs. Games like Counter-Strike have this feature enabled while others have found it difficult or impossible to accomplish in a massively multiplayer PvP environment. Successful implementation of real time, server managed collision detection across hundreds of avatars on a given battlefield would be a revolutionary feat sure to set any game apart from all competitors. Failure to properly test this, on the other hand, could be detrimental to the early health of the game, and considerably stunt its growth.

World of Warcraft had collision detection in its early alpha stage, but Blizzard simply didn’t have or take the time to perfect it and ended up scrapping it before beta. The idea quickly vanished from all MMO discussion until a few years ago when Mythic, then under their own corporate banner, announced that their Warhammer Online MMO would feature collision detection in PvP and RvR. Most savvy gamers knew this was just a pipedream and went about their lives. But they never forgot the challenge Camelot’s creators put on themselves."

I know it make some of you happy believing that the reason GW2 is zoned and has these issues in WvW is caused by the fact GW2 doesn't charge a subscription, but anyone that can see beyond what is in front of their noses understand it isn't because of that but dueto technical limitations game developers working with online games have to deal with.

Graphics is the easy part - AI, collision detection, scripted events all are much more taxing these days.

You can be guaranteed that Anet will really try to kill every bot they can.

Why?

Because they directly compete with Anet to sell gold. Anet makes a ton of money from their gem sales, bots are their direct enemy, unlike in WoW where Blizzard lets bots operate since they don't really eat into their profit margins.