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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Do you stand by your score rating of GW2 ?

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167 posts found
  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6497

"Only cunts name their swords" -The Hound

10/27/12 6:18:56 PM#81
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk
Originally posted by Yamota

[mod edit]

I am sorry to burst your bubble mate but, inspite of the meaning of RPG, very very few are actually doing any role playing in MMOs. And this is a fact which has been studied and proven many times, since the release of UO.

But if you are making the argue of role playing progression, heck that is infinite. You can have no leveling, no weapon or skills progress and continue with role playing progression forever because that is such an abstract activity.

And dungeon and map completions is now role playing? Come on man, you are talking to a nerd who used to actually role play those pen and paper games when I was a kid. Role playing is not about finishing maps or dungeons but rather fleshing out the role of you as a virtual character and sadly very little of that is going on in MMORPGs and has been like that for over a decade.

On the last one we can agree, I'm an old hand at PnP's as well. However, in the RPGs I've run, the no1 rule was that each character's motivation is his own. As a game master I would not ever presume on my players to follow some designed pre-set path I've made for them. (We were a punkish, anarchist nerd bunch back then. We had some special names for GMs who couldn't handle freeform and were stuck with reading boxed descriptions in TSRs modules, but I digress...)

If we consider a PC to be the equivalent of a game master, then todays standard in RPGs is is not much better than "canned adventures" right out of Dungeon magazine (that's your standard themepark nowadays). To me the level above that would be " the perfect freeform" - a GM who has the whole world in his mind/notebook and just lets the players roam about and do weird stuff... But in them old days such sessions invariably ended in rapine, pillage and falling off the edge of the world, one way or another. (aka what passes for sandboxes in mmos). Imo the third level and the ultimate one is a combination of the two - a GM which provides full freedom to his players and yet is competent to design a riveting story on the fly, no matter what the players do... and if the world and the whole system is rich enough, the players will naturally and spontaneously start behaving "in character" and the will have epic adventures without being led by the nose.

In all my 20+ years of weekly gm-ing (I've let off a bit though in the past few years, RL family stuff etc) I've maybe had 5-6 such sessions, so... Imo we are putting pretty high standards on something that is, when you get down to it, just dumb machines executing limited sets of instructions designed by mere mortals.

Peace.

In single player RPGs yes I think we are putting too high standards on them if we think they will be like an experienced RL GM. However in MMORPGs the key to get a good RP experience is for the devs to stop and think they can create the content and give the tools to players to do so. That is the only way to have a proper RP experience in computer RPGs because, with the current technology, no AI or dev. scripted dynamic event is going to come close to what houndreds of individuals can do, granted they are given the proper tools.

And I still have a strong belief that once a triple A sandbox RPG is created with the proper tools given to the players, that will be the ultimate computer RPG ever created. It wont be for everyone, for sure, but neither was pen and paper RPGs. That is why I feel WoW was an altogether bad experience because it took MMORPGs out of the hand of us nerds and put it in the hands of every John Schmoe out there who does not care jack shit about RPGs and virtual worlds and just want to have "fun".

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/27/12 6:22:55 PM#82
Originally posted by Yamota
 

In single player RPGs yes I think we are putting too high standards on them if we think they will be like an experienced RL GM. However in MMORPGs the key to get a good RP experience is for the devs to stop and think they can create the content and give the tools to players to do so. That is the only way to have a proper RP experience in computer RPGs because, with the current technology, no AI or dev. scripted dynamic event is going to come close to what houndreds of individuals can do, granted they are given the proper tools.

And I still have a strong belief that once a triple A sandbox RPG is created with the proper tools given to the players, that will be the ultimate computer RPG ever created. It wont be for everyone, for sure, but neither was pen and paper RPGs. That is why I feel WoW was an altogether bad experience because it took MMORPGs out of the hand of us nerds and put it in the hands of every John Schmoe out there who does not care jack shit about RPGs and virtual worlds and just want to have "fun".

I agree with that as wow was the first RPG targeted for "everyone" and once the industry saw that the money was in developing games like wow that's where it headed.. 

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6497

"Only cunts name their swords" -The Hound

10/27/12 6:29:04 PM#83
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Yamota
 

In single player RPGs yes I think we are putting too high standards on them if we think they will be like an experienced RL GM. However in MMORPGs the key to get a good RP experience is for the devs to stop and think they can create the content and give the tools to players to do so. That is the only way to have a proper RP experience in computer RPGs because, with the current technology, no AI or dev. scripted dynamic event is going to come close to what houndreds of individuals can do, granted they are given the proper tools.

And I still have a strong belief that once a triple A sandbox RPG is created with the proper tools given to the players, that will be the ultimate computer RPG ever created. It wont be for everyone, for sure, but neither was pen and paper RPGs. That is why I feel WoW was an altogether bad experience because it took MMORPGs out of the hand of us nerds and put it in the hands of every John Schmoe out there who does not care jack shit about RPGs and virtual worlds and just want to have "fun".

I agree with that as wow was the first RPG targeted for "everyone" and once the industry saw that the money was in developing games like wow that's where it headed.. 

Then I dont understand why you feel GW 2 is so good because GW 2 is the next step of the evolution of ThemeParks. It continues the path which WoW started and will never lead to the root of MMORPG or RPGs but rather away from it and even more mainstream.

That is why I have said that GW 2 is a very good game, but not a good MMORPG. And the reason is that it builds on a fundamentally flawed concept of dev. created content which means programming routines in the place of real humans and we are decades if not centuries away from having proper technology to create that.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/27/12 6:33:58 PM#84
Originally posted by Yamota
 

Then I dont understand why you feel GW 2 is so good because GW 2 is the next step of the evolution of ThemeParks. It continues the path which WoW started and will never lead to the root of MMORPG or RPGs but rather away from it and even more mainstream.

That is why I have said that GW 2 is a very good game, but not a good MMORPG. And the reason is that it builds on a fundamentally flawed concept of dev. created content which means programming routines in the place of real humans and we are decades if not centuries away from having proper technology to create that.

GW2 is an amazing game it is not the sandbox hybrid I'm looking for but knew from the manifesto it never was going to be.. i never try to see it has something it's not and for me it's the most fun MMO i have played in many many years.. for me a holy trinity free non hub based game with massive cities a multiple path branching story that changes based on my decisions a very fun combat system and a pve foundation built on cooperation make this to be a great game for me.. will i be around in a year? who knows depends on content updates.. am I still wanting a great sandbox hybrid? hell yes and still patiently waiting..

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Pilnkplonk

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

10/27/12 6:43:09 PM#85
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk
Originally posted by Yamota

[mod edit]

I am sorry to burst your bubble mate but, inspite of the meaning of RPG, very very few are actually doing any role playing in MMOs. And this is a fact which has been studied and proven many times, since the release of UO.

But if you are making the argue of role playing progression, heck that is infinite. You can have no leveling, no weapon or skills progress and continue with role playing progression forever because that is such an abstract activity.

And dungeon and map completions is now role playing? Come on man, you are talking to a nerd who used to actually role play those pen and paper games when I was a kid. Role playing is not about finishing maps or dungeons but rather fleshing out the role of you as a virtual character and sadly very little of that is going on in MMORPGs and has been like that for over a decade.

On the last one we can agree, I'm an old hand at PnP's as well. However, in the RPGs I've run, the no1 rule was that each character's motivation is his own. As a game master I would not ever presume on my players to follow some designed pre-set path I've made for them. (We were a punkish, anarchist nerd bunch back then. We had some special names for GMs who couldn't handle freeform and were stuck with reading boxed descriptions in TSRs modules, but I digress...)

If we consider a PC to be the equivalent of a game master, then todays standard in RPGs is is not much better than "canned adventures" right out of Dungeon magazine (that's your standard themepark nowadays). To me the level above that would be " the perfect freeform" - a GM who has the whole world in his mind/notebook and just lets the players roam about and do weird stuff... But in them old days such sessions invariably ended in rapine, pillage and falling off the edge of the world, one way or another. (aka what passes for sandboxes in mmos). Imo the third level and the ultimate one is a combination of the two - a GM which provides full freedom to his players and yet is competent to design a riveting story on the fly, no matter what the players do... and if the world and the whole system is rich enough, the players will naturally and spontaneously start behaving "in character" and the will have epic adventures without being led by the nose.

In all my 20+ years of weekly gm-ing (I've let off a bit though in the past few years, RL family stuff etc) I've maybe had 5-6 such sessions, so... Imo we are putting pretty high standards on something that is, when you get down to it, just dumb machines executing limited sets of instructions designed by mere mortals.

Peace.

In single player RPGs yes I think we are putting too high standards on them if we think they will be like an experienced RL GM. However in MMORPGs the key to get a good RP experience is for the devs to stop and think they can create the content and give the tools to players to do so. That is the only way to have a proper RP experience in computer RPGs because, with the current technology, no AI or dev. scripted dynamic event is going to come close to what houndreds of individuals can do, granted they are given the proper tools.

And I still have a strong belief that once a triple A sandbox RPG is created with the proper tools given to the players, that will be the ultimate computer RPG ever created. It wont be for everyone, for sure, but neither was pen and paper RPGs. That is why I feel WoW was an altogether bad experience because it took MMORPGs out of the hand of us nerds and put it in the hands of every John Schmoe out there who does not care jack shit about RPGs and virtual worlds and just want to have "fun".

Personally, I thought that the first true "next gen" mmo (the one that would break away from sandbox vs themepark paradigm) would grow out of sandbox milleu.... The vision that I speculated some years ago was a sandbox that would contain scripted content that was designed by the developers but initiated by the players. For example, building a keep in that hypothetical sandbox would involve triggering a designed quest chain/event to be performed by playes, rather than letting them lug stone blocks around and dropping em all over the landscape... Taking over another guild's keep wouldn't involve banging on a door, but having a choice of different contested quests/events that would lead to a definite conclusion. Such a model would leave the players free to choose their fate and what they want to do with the world and yet would provide the game with a sentient, creative direction.

GW2 surprised me because I can see they've came to a similar conclusion, but from a wholly different direction. ANet begun with base themepark model and decided to give it more freedom and emergenece. I didn't expect it to pan it that way, tbh. Maybe if sandbox crowd wasn't so stuck with remaking a 10+ year old game in 3D and selling it as "innovative" and "revolutionary", the true next gen mmo would have sprung from that direction. Imo GW2 is still far away from the ideal, as I see it, but it is a definite step forward and it does feel so. I do hope the next step will come from the "sandbox" crowd but it will happen only when they finally start learning the lessions from the past 10 years of mmo development. Sadly, though I agree that themeparks have become intolerably set in their old ways, the lack of any conceptual progression in sandboxes is really becoming ridiculous.

(edit, sorry i got my sandboxes and themeparks confused in a few places.. it's getting late here...)

  clumsytoes44

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 385

10/27/12 7:25:24 PM#86

The game would still be an 8.5-9, if they would remove the RNG phukya forge. With the forge in, I give it about a 4-4.5.

 

P.S. can ya tell I hate the mystic forge, and i'm not 1 of the people that dumped a ton of money into the game trying to get a precursor.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8542

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

10/27/12 8:04:04 PM#87

Despite all the bugs and shortcommings, its still by far the best MMO released since WoW...

 

 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/27/12 8:05:21 PM#88
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Despite all the bugs and shortcommings, its still by far the best MMO released since WoW...

 

 

same for me.. need to update your sig:P

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  suffolk190

Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/11
Posts: 1

10/27/12 8:25:20 PM#89
I gotta say,I must agree with Sammy. GW2 best sixty bucks I have spent in years. I am a sandbox mmo fan. (swg pre cu/cu) but I must say , I give GW2 a solid 9.8. I have been playing it for a few months and I am having a blast. I put in at least 25/30 hours per week into the game.
  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3468

10/27/12 9:37:14 PM#90

Think I gave it a solid 7 and I stand by it.

Although, not particularly happy with some of their interactions; esp the FOV issue that was 'dismissed' by one of their devs.

Haven't had an issue with their CS so no complaints there.

There are issues though; the GW2 story is horrendously bad and the later *spoiler* stuff ('change of focus') is just really bad. 

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/27/12 9:39:00 PM#91
Originally posted by jpnz

Think I gave it a solid 7 and I stand by it.

Although, not particularly happy with some of their interactions; esp the FOV issue that was 'dismissed' by one of their devs.

Haven't had an issue with their CS so no complaints there.

There are issues though; the GW2 story is horrendously bad and the later *spoiler* stuff ('change of focus') is just really bad. 

you try the FOV fix they just put in? works very well on my setup

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3468

10/27/12 9:49:01 PM#92
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by jpnz

Think I gave it a solid 7 and I stand by it.

Although, not particularly happy with some of their interactions; esp the FOV issue that was 'dismissed' by one of their devs.

Haven't had an issue with their CS so no complaints there.

There are issues though; the GW2 story is horrendously bad and the later *spoiler* stuff ('change of focus') is just really bad. 

you try the FOV fix they just put in? works very well on my setup

Yeah and its good.

Like I said, from the initial post Anet really botched their comm about the whole FOV.

It only was the 'programming AMA' we got a reasonable response.

I want a slider or some way to custom my FOV though. What is this 1995?

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  knuckledust13

Novice Member

Joined: 9/23/12
Posts: 23

10/27/12 9:51:34 PM#93

Still about 3 on my rating.

 

The game has no content and the devs keep nerfing everything. The game requires huge grind and time sink for SKINS, which is the only thing that keeps players. 750 hours to get one weapon skin which isn't even good? No thanks. Greedy cash shop policies, with lottery style boxes being sold and encouraged just like every other f2p mmo. The only good thing about this game is the graphics. GW1 lasted me 7 years, this game lasted me 2 weeks.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/27/12 9:52:09 PM#94
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by jpnz

Think I gave it a solid 7 and I stand by it.

Although, not particularly happy with some of their interactions; esp the FOV issue that was 'dismissed' by one of their devs.

Haven't had an issue with their CS so no complaints there.

There are issues though; the GW2 story is horrendously bad and the later *spoiler* stuff ('change of focus') is just really bad. 

you try the FOV fix they just put in? works very well on my setup

Yeah and its good.

Like I said, from the initial post Anet really botched their comm about the whole FOV.

It only was the 'programming AMA' we got a reasonable response.

I want a slider or some way to custom my FOV though. What is this 1995?

not many MMOs i can think of let you adjust FOV on a slider and most games I have played you need to go into the ini to edit the FOV

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  revy66

Novice Member

Joined: 11/12/10
Posts: 470

10/27/12 9:56:30 PM#95
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by jpnz

Think I gave it a solid 7 and I stand by it.

Although, not particularly happy with some of their interactions; esp the FOV issue that was 'dismissed' by one of their devs.

Haven't had an issue with their CS so no complaints there.

There are issues though; the GW2 story is horrendously bad and the later *spoiler* stuff ('change of focus') is just really bad. 

you try the FOV fix they just put in? works very well on my setup

Yeah and its good.

Like I said, from the initial post Anet really botched their comm about the whole FOV.

It only was the 'programming AMA' we got a reasonable response.

I want a slider or some way to custom my FOV though. What is this 1995?

Actually, most MMOs don't let you change the FOV. In fact, most games dont let you do that. For online games at least I can see why because they want everyone on an even playing field.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3468

10/27/12 9:59:27 PM#96
Originally posted by Aerowyn
 

not many MMOs i can think of let you adjust FOV on a slider and most games I have played you need to go into the ini to edit the FOV

Most MMOs don't have FOV of 65 in the first place. :P

It kinda lends credence that the FOV was limited to 65 because Anet wants to make a console version.

FOV 60-65 is usually only for console games and PC ports have some way to increase that.

More bizzare was lying about the FOV as 75 and then getting called out on it by the community. Just really head scratching stuff.

 

To the above poster, not letting us change is fine IF the FOV changes depending on resolution or is high enough in the first place.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1362

10/27/12 10:05:12 PM#97
Ratings these days are so confusing.  Is 8 average or very good?  My rating was and is 7 which is very good.  I'm in the camp that 5 should be average not fing 8.
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5906

10/28/12 1:37:33 AM#98
Originally posted by Mannish
I never rated the game high so I stand by my low rating.

This

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 975

10/28/12 1:56:27 AM#99
I stand by my low rating.
  Thillian

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3221

10/28/12 2:06:47 AM#100
I gave it 2/10. One of the few games I refunded witin 3 days of my purchase. So yeh, I still stand by my score.

REALITY CHECK

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