Poll  - MMO Combat: Fast Paced and Action Packed or Traditional?

Originally posted by Uproar

Poll  - MMO Combat: Fast Paced and Action Packed or Traditional?

 

Bugs me (a lot) when polls allow too few options or frankly (in this case it's both) biased to get the result someone wants.

 

"Fast Paced and Action Packed" or "Traditional"

 

Not only is this phrasing BAD.  Like someone might really declare "I'll take no action & boring mode please!" -- yeah right I am surprised anyone voted for Traditional here, but can only guess they did so for wide diversity of reasons as I would bet nearly every one that did pick that option had a different meaning in mind.  Or rather maybe hated "Fast paced" enough to run the other way regardless of meaning.

 

Question needs to consider length of combat (from a second or few to 10s of seconds to a minute), style of combat (1-1 vs. wading through foes vs. a squad at a time), complexity of actions (few options, keyboard vs. mouse, tons of options), and pace (mad smash -- instants, reactionaries, positionals, etc vs. steady no twitch required to even turned-base).

 

Here's the poll as it should be (or at least more telling -- it's not perfect),

 

 

It's impossible to poll this correctly to be honest. There are simply way to many variables to consider. Like in a PvP focused game I prefer combat that requires both action and reaction, in a solo PvE situation I prefer more action on trash and only want action and reaction on mini boss or boss type mobs. I like hard content that requires grouping but I also like my solo content. Some games I prefer turn based combat lol... 

It depends on the game, the setting, what else it offers, who I'm playing with, what mood I'm in, and so many other factors it would take a dissetation to properly answer your question lol!

Thats impossible for me because i enjoy different types of combat from many different mmos. I guess you could say my favorite type of combat is the kind that fits with its particular game. My favorite game combat in general is virtua fighter but thats not possible yet in an mmo setting

Agree with preceeding respondants.

As a squishy cleric it might be more advantageous to take on mobs individually in many cases; therefore, I'd want a skill that allows me to lure singles.

As a heavy armor user, perhaps I can aggro and fight multiple mobs at once.

Aside from class capabilities, I find it a lot more interesting when mobs exhibit varying tendancies; for instance, some aggro in groups, while others attack singly, and others run away.

This was one of the things I thought was really well done with Perfect World (despite all its other faults). Mobs are remarkably varied, and as a squishy class player you really needed to have your wits about you to prevail, particularly with ranged mobs that would retreat into a group of other ranged mobs. Stalking, kiting, luring, stacking a heal or two, and wise placement before attack were generally important and kept even repetitive quests interesting.

I die a little inside when I see how the miss-use of the word "twitch" has caught on so. Even in FPS games the use of the twitch reflex is quite rare - majority of situations are still a matter of hand-eye coordination, knowledge and tactics.

My own preference is to have more action-oriented combat, but only because it is still quite rare and variety is good. I don't mind the regular tab-targetting as long as its spiced-up a bit. Gimmicks don't count.

I would also like to see combat with all of the following combined in the same game:

• projectile blocking - projectiles hit whatever is in the way, whether it was an ally or enemy you didn't mean to hit
• body blocking - no walking through anyone
• friendly fire - no fireballs or shooting into melee

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Originally posted by Quirhid
I die a little inside when I see how the miss-use of the word "twitch" has caught on so. Even in FPS games the use of the twitch reflex is quite rare - majority of situations are still a matter of hand-eye coordination, knowledge and tactics.

My own preference is to have more action-oriented combat, but only because it is still quite rare and variety is good. I don't mind the regular tab-targetting as long as its spiced-up a bit. Gimmicks don't count.

I would also like to see combat with all of the following combined in the same game:

• projectile blocking - projectiles hit whatever is in the way, whether it was an ally or enemy you didn't mean to hit
• body blocking - no walking through anyone friendly fire - no fireballs or shooting into melee

Again, just because I think it would create a drastically different metagame and playstyle.

---

I agree with all those bullet points. Friendly fire alone would add much more strategy to pvp.

Originally posted by Quirhid

I would also like to see combat with all of the following combined in the same game:

• projectile blocking - projectiles hit whatever is in the way, whether it was an ally or enemy you didn't mean to hit
• body blocking - no walking through anyone
• friendly fire - no fireballs or shooting into melee

Realism? Never gonna happen G.I.

Not when three generations of game players expect any successful game will let them spit thunder and shoot fire out their asses.

It's the same weak-kneed mentality that wants space for hundreds of items in personal inventory; characters that never get tired, hungry, or thirsty; and death that has no consequences.

Realism will never give way to instant gratification; not that it couldn't or shouldn't, but because most players want only a themepark, with all the cottoncandy, corndogs, and fried twinkies they can carry.

Originally posted by Foomerang

Thats impossible for me because i enjoy different types of combat from many different mmos. I guess you could say my favorite type of combat is the kind that fits with its particular game. My favorite game combat in general is virtua fighter but thats not possible yet in an mmo setting

I played Virtua Fighter in arcades and on the Sega 32X in Tokyo, and Vendetta Online comes pretty damn well close to capturing that feeling.  It's really all about the physics.

/vet rant

Christ... that was a ton of options lol. I like croud control. Used to use it a ton in Eq2 and vinilla wow. 

Originally posted by Simphanatic

Originally posted by Quirhid

I would also like to see combat with all of the following combined in the same game:

• projectile blocking - projectiles hit whatever is in the way, whether it was an ally or enemy you didn't mean to hit
• body blocking - no walking through anyone
• friendly fire - no fireballs or shooting into melee

Realism? Never gonna happen G.I.

 

Not when three generations of game players expect any successful game will let them spit thunder and shoot fire out their asses.

 

It's the same weak-kneed mentality that wants space for hundreds of items in personal inventory; characters that never get tired, hungry, or thirsty; and death that has no consequences.

 

Realism will never give way to instant gratification; not that it couldn't or shouldn't, but because most players want only a themepark, with all the cottoncandy, corndogs, and fried twinkies they can carry.

Not going for realism, just for a variety in metagames. It only happens to be in the direction of realism. Getting hungry, tired, thisty or realistic recovery from wounds would only be a major nuisance in a game (depending ofc) with little to no additional gameplay value. Just like character aging wouldn't have any value.

First and foremost, people want good games. Realism rarely makes a good game. But I sense my explanations are falling on deaf ears since you used the term "instant gratification".

Originally posted by Praetalus

Christ... that was a ton of options lol. I like croud control. Used to use it a ton in Eq2 and vinilla wow.

Who doesn't love crowd control? Except I don't like the type of cop out crowd control like putting characters to sleep or "mesmerising" them. Things like body blocking, knock back, raising magical walls and the like is cc at its best imo. Something devastatingly effective if the used right - not these lame "I win"-buttons.

Originally posted by Quirhid

I die a little inside when I see how the miss-use of the word "twitch" has caught on so. Even in FPS games the use of the twitch reflex is quite rare - majority of situations are still a matter of hand-eye coordination, knowledge and tactics.

My own preference is to have more action-oriented combat, but only because it is still quite rare and variety is good. I don't mind the regular tab-targetting as long as its spiced-up a bit. Gimmicks don't count.

I would also like to see combat with all of the following combined in the same game:

• projectile blocking - projectiles hit whatever is in the way, whether it was an ally or enemy you didn't mean to hit
• body blocking - no walking through anyone
• friendly fire - no fireballs or shooting into melee

Again, just because I think it would create a drastically different metagame and playstyle.

You get most of them in DF. Be nice if other companies ran with them, tweaked, polished and improved upon them.

The lack of friendly fire is something I find particularly bad in any team orientated game to be honest. Allowing people to blast rockets, fireballs, whatever into the middle of their own team is just utterly ridiculous.

Having to pick and choose targets, having ranged team members have to work more in tandem with close combat team members. All the additional tactics it offers.

Can't say I am a fan of TAB target unless the game is extremely strategy centric with less emphasis on speed of reaction or if it is a game which makes little to no sense having manual aiming (i.e. you are a massive capital ship or something).

I also agree with your later posts sentiment with regards to CC. Raising barriets, body blocking et al is cool. Fetch! type pull mechanics and dizzy KD, perma stun cycles are not.

Originally posted by Praetalus

Christ... that was a ton of options lol. I like croud control. Used to use it a ton in Eq2 and vinilla wow. 

 

 

I too like crowd control splitting pulls.  Individual mobs need to be stronger and there should be some preparation in pulls.

I've enjoyed all types of combat in MMO's I don't care for WoW solo combat (no dodging) and FPS games are not my favorite.  I still enjoy the strategy and slowness of EQ1 up to the aim based stuff that isn't necessarily FPS.  I think there is room for all different types of combat I just think individual mobs should be stronger in general and pulling two or three is not gonna be a faceroll.

Strategy should be more important than super speedy imo along with situational awareness.

Originally posted by Quirhid

First and foremost, people want good games. Realism rarely makes a good game. But I sense my explanations are falling on deaf ears since you used the term "instant gratification".

Oh, fudge! And here I was laboring under the misguided notion that MMORPGs were supposed to have been a departure from Pong, Asteroids, and Pacman.

But then, again, you and many others really want to play MMOGs, not MMORPGs.

Originally posted by Quirhid

I die a little inside when I see how the miss-use of the word "twitch" has caught on so. Even in FPS games the use of the twitch reflex is quite rare - majority of situations are still a matter of hand-eye coordination, knowledge and tactics.

[...]

I would also like to see combat with all of the following combined in the same game:

• projectile blocking - projectiles hit whatever is in the way, whether it was an ally or enemy you didn't mean to hit
• body blocking - no walking through anyone
• friendly fire - no fireballs or shooting into melee

Again, just because I think it would create a drastically different metagame and playstyle.

I identify completely with this post, however these bullets are the very reason I've found so much depth in Vendetta's combat.  These features are already there, and have been since I started playing in 2003.  In fact, the longer I stick with Vendetta, the more depth I find in it's relatively simple combat model, simply because it is true to some basic physical principles:

-projectile blocking: yes, you can hit a target that has not been selected, hit an unintended target or a friendly ship

-body blocking: yes, this is a major pet peeve of mine, and one of the reasons I got turned off from WoW.  One physical body that has volume should not be allowed to pass through another, virtual or no.

-friendly fire: this is a consideration when in a furball or a skirmish, and adds to the complexity of group tactics

When I find posts from people wishing for these features among MMOs I have to speak out, because they do exist.  They just are not mainstream.

---------------------------------

Another thing I wanted to talk about was flare recovery.  Recovery is a major part of the strategy in fighting games.  Anyone who has played Virtua Fighter or Tekken should know what I am talking about.  This mechanic is present in Vendetta because certain weapons carry concussive force which has the ability to displace the target or cause it to spin around.  The ship's mass and moment of inertia affect which recovery strategy is the best to take.  It's almost like snowboarding; when you spin, you have to know how to land, how to come out of it, etc.  The same feeling goes with VO.

Originally posted by Foomerang

Thats impossible for me because i enjoy different types of combat from many different mmos. I guess you could say my favorite type of combat is the kind that fits with its particular game. My favorite game combat in general is virtua fighter but thats not possible yet in an mmo setting

Same here. I enjoy EVE combat, UO combat and GW2 combat. for me, it's all about what works best for the game.