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General Gaming  » Every Mmo since WoW has been a failure.

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105 posts found
  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2586

10/24/12 5:42:57 PM#21
Originally posted by Badaboom

OP, you have no concept of what you are talking about.

There are plenty of good games out there.  So from a gamers point of view, there have been a lot of successes.  Most importantly...options.

From a investors point of few, there are also a lot of winners.  However, when you compare them to the behemoth of WoW, nobody is a winner.

 

Uh, what fictional world are you talking about?

Choice? The ONLY choice from AAA MMORPGs of the last 7 years has been WoW clone or... nothing. The ONLY non WoW clone AAA MMO of the last 7 years was Vanguard. The ONLY one. GW2 is the first one since then to actually be a bit different. 

And good investments? Which investment was a good one? The high profile failure of WAR? The failure of AoC? The failure of Rift? The failure of STO? The failure of Vanguard? The failure of SWTOR?

All these games started shrinking and closing servers almost right away. That is a pretty solid measure of failure. 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12316

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

10/24/12 5:46:49 PM#22
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by MercArcher

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

No MMO has been a success.

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 15m+ subs)

I agree with RefMinor. Merc is lowballing the number intentionally just to get WOW in under the cutoff. Nice try, Merc.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Badaboom

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2389

10/24/12 5:50:19 PM#23
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Badaboom

OP, you have no concept of what you are talking about.

There are plenty of good games out there.  So from a gamers point of view, there have been a lot of successes.  Most importantly...options.

From a investors point of few, there are also a lot of winners.  However, when you compare them to the behemoth of WoW, nobody is a winner.

 

Uh, what fictional world are you talking about?

Choice? The ONLY choice from AAA MMORPGs of the last 7 years has been WoW clone or... nothing. The ONLY non WoW clone AAA MMO of the last 7 years was Vanguard. The ONLY one. GW2 is the first one since then to actually be a bit different. 

And good investments? Which investment was a good one? The high profile failure of WAR? The failure of AoC? The failure of Rift? The failure of STO? The failure of Vanguard? The failure of SWTOR?

All these games started shrinking and closing servers almost right away. That is a pretty solid measure of failure. 

Are you insinuating that every MMO released in the last 7 years has lost money?

  MercArcher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 59

 
OP  10/24/12 5:50:19 PM#24
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by MercArcher

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

No MMO has been a success.

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 15m+ subs)

I agree with RefMinor. Merc is lowballing the number intentionally just to get WOW in under the cutoff. Nice try, Merc.

Actually I based it off of about 1/10th of wow's sub #s.

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1770

10/24/12 5:51:39 PM#25
Originally posted by MercArcher

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

What credentials do you have to make such sweeping statements?  If you say something along the lines of "I have been playing MMOs since Meridian 59" , that doesn't mean anything,...just in case you wanted to use that.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2586

10/24/12 5:52:06 PM#26
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Badaboom

OP, you have no concept of what you are talking about.

There are plenty of good games out there.  So from a gamers point of view, there have been a lot of successes.  Most importantly...options.

From a investors point of few, there are also a lot of winners.  However, when you compare them to the behemoth of WoW, nobody is a winner.

 

Uh, what fictional world are you talking about?

Choice? The ONLY choice from AAA MMORPGs of the last 7 years has been WoW clone or... nothing. The ONLY non WoW clone AAA MMO of the last 7 years was Vanguard. The ONLY one. GW2 is the first one since then to actually be a bit different. 

And good investments? Which investment was a good one? The high profile failure of WAR? The failure of AoC? The failure of Rift? The failure of STO? The failure of Vanguard? The failure of SWTOR?

All these games started shrinking and closing servers almost right away. That is a pretty solid measure of failure. 

Are you insinuating that every MMO released in the last 7 years has lost money?

I'm insinuating that every AAA MMO of the last 7 years has shrunken dramatically immediately after launch, and not grown over time like the classic MMOs did. And yes, I will say that most of them barely recouped their development costs. 

  Silok

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 745

10/24/12 5:55:04 PM#27
Originally posted by MercArcher

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

Seriously? there is game out there with 200-500k of sub and still kicking, for me a game who fail is a game being shutdown. If the game bring money this is not a failure.

Heck AO is still bringing money to funcom.

  MercArcher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 59

 
OP  10/24/12 5:55:26 PM#28
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by MercArcher

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

What credentials do you have to make such sweeping statements?  If you say something along the lines of "I have been playing MMOs since Meridian 59" , that doesn't mean anything,...just in case you wanted to use that.

I took the most successful game in the genre, took 10% of their player base as a determination of success, and applied that constraint to the rest of the games in the genre.

 

As such there has not been a successful MMO since WoW.

  Silok

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 745

10/24/12 6:02:06 PM#29
Originally posted by MercArcher
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by MercArcher

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

What credentials do you have to make such sweeping statements?  If you say something along the lines of "I have been playing MMOs since Meridian 59" , that doesn't mean anything,...just in case you wanted to use that.

I took the most successful game in the genre, took 10% of their player base as a determination of success, and applied that constraint to the rest of the games in the genre.

 

As such there has not been a successful MMO since WoW.

by your definition of succes, every movies who came after Avatar are a failure, and before that every movie after Titanic was a failure....

  aphydork

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/12
Posts: 133

10/24/12 6:05:01 PM#30
And every internet provider after Comcast cable and AT&T DSL was a failure.
  MercArcher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 59

 
OP  10/24/12 6:06:02 PM#31
Originally posted by Silok
Originally posted by MercArcher

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

Seriously? there is game out there with 200-500k of sub and still kicking, for me a game who fail is a game being shutdown. If the game bring money this is not a failure.

Heck AO is still bringing money to funcom.

So WAR, AoC, SWTOR, and TSW are all successes?

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

10/24/12 6:08:23 PM#32

A game is not a failure if it makes a profit for a company.  Especially if it turns a profit over a long period of time.  And generally speaking, if a game is not making a profit, it will shut down.  Those are the failures.  It works the same way as just about any business.

It's also silly to base your point on subscriptions.  What about MMOs that don't have subscriptions?  Are they all failures?  Even if they make the developers and investors a whole bunch of money?

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  Entinerint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 716

10/24/12 6:09:40 PM#33

The only actual "failure" is when your game is forced to shut down completely.

APB, Hellgate, Tabula Rasa, SWG, etc.  All failures (regardless of their bastardized ressurections).

Changing from sub to F2P or freemium, dropping below 1 million subs, none of these are failure conditions.  Granted there's a wide spectrum between success and failure, but an actual shut down should be the only time we use the word "failure."

  MMOGamer71

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1548

10/24/12 6:09:42 PM#34
In before lock, this thread is pointless as "success" is measured by investors.
  MercArcher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 59

 
OP  10/24/12 6:11:12 PM#35
Originally posted by Silok
Originally posted by MercArcher
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by MercArcher

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

What credentials do you have to make such sweeping statements?  If you say something along the lines of "I have been playing MMOs since Meridian 59" , that doesn't mean anything,...just in case you wanted to use that.

I took the most successful game in the genre, took 10% of their player base as a determination of success, and applied that constraint to the rest of the games in the genre.

 

As such there has not been a successful MMO since WoW.

by your definition of succes, every movies who came after Avatar are a failure, and before that every movie after Titanic was a failure....

Avatar made $2.7b so 10% of that is 270m. If a movie makes less than $270m then I would indeed classify it as a failure according tthis method. many movies since then have made well in excess of $270m, so your statement is wrong.

  AG-Vuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/26/04
Posts: 818

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Oh, I see it's too late to help you.

10/24/12 6:11:21 PM#36
Originally posted by MercArcher

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

 I don't consider maintainng a 1m+ subs a success.  I'll just say Eve. Just because a lot of people play something doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. It just means that the alternatives are limited. It's like saying McDonalds is the best restaurant in the world because it has the most franchises. So don't confuse volume with quality.

  dreamsofwar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/09
Posts: 471

10/24/12 6:16:52 PM#37
The fact that Blizzard observes other MMO's and  the new features that they offer and then adds them to their own game is evidence enough for me that they aren't failures.
  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6510

"I fight so you don't have to."

10/24/12 6:18:21 PM#38

I agree with OP. I don't think there is a number or formula which can say if an MMORPG is a success or not but the dramatic drop in subs just a few months after release would be a strong indication of failure as an MMORPG.

That would not prevent it from making money but any game, MMORPG or not, can make money. What makes an MMORPG a success is if it can retain subs over time and since WoW, almost no MMORPG have had good retention. Which is odd seeing as many MMORPGs before WoW had good retention, even a year after release.

Besides, why would I as a gamer care of a game makes money or not? I care in the sense that it keeps the game running but that is not a metric I use to measure success as an MMORPG gamer.

  Silok

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 745

10/24/12 6:20:33 PM#39
Originally posted by MercArcher
Originally posted by Silok
Originally posted by MercArcher
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by MercArcher

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

What credentials do you have to make such sweeping statements?  If you say something along the lines of "I have been playing MMOs since Meridian 59" , that doesn't mean anything,...just in case you wanted to use that.

I took the most successful game in the genre, took 10% of their player base as a determination of success, and applied that constraint to the rest of the games in the genre.

 

As such there has not been a successful MMO since WoW.

by your definition of succes, every movies who came after Avatar are a failure, and before that every movie after Titanic was a failure....

Avatar made $2.7b so 10% of that is 270m. If a movie makes less than $270m then I would indeed classify it as a failure according tthis method. many movies since then have made well in excess of $270m, so your statement is wrong.

aha and that my statement who is wrong lol. You should learn the real definition of succes or failure.

Geez man you are so over your head with this tway of thinking.

If i make a movie and it cost me 25 million and this same movie make lets say 50 million then i just double my initial fair. So this is a succes. If my movie is really good an i make more then your ridicule 10% theorie about avatar and i make 270m+ then this is just a bigger succes but in any case if i dont lose money this is not a failure.

  aphydork

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/12
Posts: 133

10/24/12 6:38:21 PM#40

There are movies that would have been deemed failures, but due to their extremely small budget, they are actually very profitable and successful.

The movie, "Clerks," took $27,000 to make and made $3.2 million. $3.2 million is considered awful by today's sales records, but, because it only took $27,000 to make, it was extremely profitable. And that's a success.

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