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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » So much for events are dynamic...(and why we can never have good things)

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152 posts found
  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

10/24/12 12:08:49 PM#41
Teleporting should never have been put in the game for this exact reason...
  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/24/12 12:09:39 PM#42
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by IPolygon
They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

 

we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

 
OP  10/24/12 12:13:41 PM#43
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by IPolygon
They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

 

we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/24/12 12:20:27 PM#44
Originally posted by mmoguy43
I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

There is no gaming system ever created, where players in large numbers do not quickly adopt the path of least resistance.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/24/12 12:21:15 PM#45
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by IPolygon
They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

 

we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

 

there's plenty other events and ways to get karma than just running the same couple events hell even dungeons give karma now

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

 
OP  10/24/12 12:24:23 PM#46
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by IPolygon
They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

 

we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

 

there's plenty other events and ways to get karma than just running the same couple events hell even dungeons give karma now

Yeah but which one are quickest and have least down time? all these factors are very important. And right now Plinx trains beat everything else.

  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

10/24/12 12:25:17 PM#47
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by mmoguy43
I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

There is no gaming system ever created, where players in large numbers do not quickly adopt the path of least resistance.

Actually there are: the system just needs to lead to a problem so difficult that whoever sits on the solution does not release the solution to the public.

 

Edit: Of course, it depends on  if you refer a "local" "path of least resistance" as in only the alternatives you've tested or "global" in the sense that even those paths you haven't tested are taken into consideration.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

10/24/12 12:28:17 PM#48
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by IPolygon
They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

 

we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

Again, you are making a generalization. Not all players just do those events. Many do but not all. We definately can't blame the players that do that though, it happens in all games.

 

BTW its like every week that I have to remind posters that generalizations are always wrong. Didn't know so many people didn't know or just don't care.


  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/24/12 12:28:19 PM#49
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by IPolygon
They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

 

we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

 

there's plenty other events and ways to get karma than just running the same couple events hell even dungeons give karma now

Yeah but which one are quickest and have least down time? all these factors are very important. And right now Plinx trains beat everything else.

 

this is important to you why? You have tons of options to get good amounts of karma

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

10/24/12 12:31:08 PM#50
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by IPolygon
They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

 

we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

 

there's plenty other events and ways to get karma than just running the same couple events hell even dungeons give karma now

Yeah but which one are quickest and have least down time? all these factors are very important. And right now Plinx trains beat everything else.

 

this is important to you why? You have tons of options to get good amounts of karma

I suppose one would have to do a "karma per hour" analysis of the different options to see how "good" different options are.

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

 
OP  10/24/12 12:36:23 PM#51
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by IPolygon
They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

 

we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

 

there's plenty other events and ways to get karma than just running the same couple events hell even dungeons give karma now

Yeah but which one are quickest and have least down time? all these factors are very important. And right now Plinx trains beat everything else.

 

this is important to you why? You have tons of options to get good amounts of karma

Are you seriously asking me why? because it kills half of the zone and i like to do DE'S but can not solo the damn Cursed Shore on my own because zerg only want to farm three events for gold and karma. isn't that the waste of resources and Anet's hard work?

And in OP if you read it i already said that i did this routine for two days, got stick to my stomach and went back to W v W.

  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

10/24/12 12:39:07 PM#52
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Aerowyn
(...)

 

this is important to you why? You have tons of options to get good amounts of karma

Are you seriously asking me why? because it kills half of the zone and i like to do DE'S but can not solo the damn Cursed Shore on my own because zerg only want to farm three events for gold and karma. isn't that the waste of resources and Anet's hard work?

And in OP if you read it i already said that i did this routine for two days, got stick to my stomach and went back to W v W.

I think dynamical diminished returns would be a solution so that they get severely punished for farming in a manner that is too similar to another manner for too long time regardless of which map it is done on, but we'll have to wait for Arenanet to implement them. It would though be consistent with their policies. 

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6381

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

10/24/12 12:44:06 PM#53
Originally posted by LethalJaxx
It's not much better in WvW, at least on my server. It generally ends up into groups of each server running circles after eachother capping the same points for hours. Fast Karma, yes. Fun? no.

Yep, why I quit when I realised you just go around in circles for karma and some gold. Really not much incentive to actually hold a keep except karma and gold, which you also get for taking back the keep.

Reminds me of WAR's O-RvR system which was similar and even groups ignoring each other because it was more profitable to retake a keep rather than keeping it.

Dont understand why it is so difficult for devs to design a system which rewards you to the extent that it is better to defend a control point rather than retake it. *shrug*

  Muntz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 279

10/24/12 12:55:18 PM#54

I see a fun game with plenty of potential to be more fun that is still young enough to grow (if it was designed that way). I agree with the sentiment about the 3+ Orr events and there structure. I think they could be tweeked and maybe they will be over time to provide a better user experince and lessen the farm/botting of the 2 events. I don't know if you have ever been there after a reset but these areas need to be retaken and it seems to chain to all of the pact cities in Orr.  I experienced this and it was really damn fun. For me this system can shine more, by having the events work that way. It is in the game now if they can capture it or force it or allow it to happen.

Really it isn't all the events. If you expand beyond the few events most people seem to be at. There are in fact events I can solo even in Orr. Most events can be done with 5 people. I find starting and finding chains another way to have fun.

For me I really enjoy the concept of what was done. I'm certainly biased. I used to raid, I hated raids because it was funnelled to content and funnelled by the developer. In GW2 the developer in no way funnelled you to this type of play. You do not have to get karma or gold by farming 2-3 events. IMO you can step outside the zerg and play the way you want. Enjoy!

  User Deleted
10/24/12 1:39:00 PM#55

How does it affect anyone if a bunch of lobotomized farmers camp the same 3 events all day long? Personally, it doesn't affect me even just a little bit - it's them who are either lobotomized, as I said, or bored to death, not me.

[mod edit]

  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

10/24/12 1:44:12 PM#56
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
How does it affect anyone if a bunch of lobotomized farmers camp the same 3 events all day long? Personally, it doesn't affect me even just a little bit - it's them who are either lobotomized, as I said, or bored to death, not me.
[mod edit]

I would guess that Arenanet disagrees with you though and it is only a matter of time before they "nerf this" too. It can be considered an exploit of current spawning mechanics and a bypass of the "don't the same thing over and over again" philosophy.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5313

10/24/12 1:44:30 PM#57
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
How does it affect anyone if a bunch of lobotomized farmers camp the same 3 events all day long? Personally, it doesn't affect me even just a little bit - it's them who are either lobotomized, as I said, or bored to death, not me.
[mod edit]

 Yeah, I have seen those farm groups in Orr...I spent like maybe 10 minutes with one, then realized it sucked and moved on.  Same thing with the groups in WvW that just go from tower to tower and beat on the door for like 5 minutes until one person that still has part of their brain left decides to build a ram.

GW2 definitely can be played in a boring matter.  But no one is forcing you to do it.  In WvW, I don't stay with the door scratching zergs, and if I do, I make sure I do something smart and fun, like build siege.  The crazy thing is, is that the mindless zerg is usually completely ineffectual...just yesterday we took a tower but ONLY because my friend and I built a ballista up on a ridge that took out the wall defenders.  The zerg would have just stayed at the door endlessly scratching it, and dying horribly because the defenders were bombarding them and build a door cata.

What baffles me is that SO MANY people choose to play this game in a boring manner, and then complain about how it sucks.  It's like...if you're not having fun doing something, then try doing something else ;)!

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  Fion

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10/24/12 2:13:04 PM#58
The Karma botting issue I think is now going to be a lot less severe now that dungeons and daily/monthly achievements reward Karma. Since the patch I've gotten over 16k Karma, ~12k of that from daily achievements and the rest from the small number of dungeon runs I've done. Note, this is with Karma boosters.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6477

10/24/12 2:18:27 PM#59
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Bcbully started months ago complaining that everyone would quit through boredom at end game, 'no end game'. Now lo and behold that not happening, we are moving on to something else. The benchmark he often uses is TSW. As far as I can tell TSW is all about repeating content, that's all there is in fact. Bit odd.

I also said Orr was just another pve zone just like the others. 

  vort3x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/05/06
Posts: 117

10/24/12 2:27:44 PM#60
Originally posted by halflife25

So i have been taking a break from PVP these days and decided to spend more time in Cursed Shore. I usually travel there only to collect ori but for last few days i have been spending more time in ORR. i was pretty excited actually and was looking forward to these huge meta events but what i have found is really disappointing.

(this is about my server far shiverpeak so not sure how it works on other servers)

People farm two to three events only with an ocassional grenth or melandru (mostly it is ignored). All these events are on timer and people just go afk waiting for the timer to end.

Zerg starts from location of Plinx events (Fields Of Gold), if broodmother is up (since it is in same area) they kill it and then move on to penitent, once completed next stop is Shelter.

Then zerg stops, goes afk..waiting for Plinx event to start and rinse and repeat. To explain what i am talking about.

 

On my server all these three locations are simply referred to as 'Plinx train'. 

I was so disappointed but since i needed karma and make some gold i decided to follow. I did those for a day or two and got bored out of my mind. All other events on maps are ignored for two main reasons

 

1;) High cost of teleports from one waypoint to another.

2;) Contested waypoints which don't allow teleport or the nusiance of running through hordes of unded to reach your location.

 

So by doing this not only you save teleport costs but repair bills. Not to mention quick amount of gold you make by continuous farming of these three locations.

And since Plinx, Penitent and Shelter in close proximity and can be repeated every 10 to 15 minutes it is like being in merry go round. This kills whole 'dynamic' nature of zones and events.

Who is to blame here? players or bad design which encourages people to farm karma continuously within these three locations. Also since DR has been reduced recently and they are not actually staying in one locaiton and movig between three spots in close proximity, DR is not a problem.

I have decided not to ride this merry go round anymore and went back to PVP once again. its because of tactics like these which leads to nerfing of karma by Anet.

 

Players. And you yourself. No one told you you HAVE to follow the Phlinx train or whatever they call it. I'm also on Cursed Shore right now, mostly spending my time in pvp tho. I have been playing the game since pre-launch and only got to cursed shore with my only character just now. However I do not care what people are doing in the game, nor do i find it necesary to do it the way they do. I just explore every map to the fullest. I never use teleports, where ever i go i go there on foot, I do the events i run across before i get to my final destination. I find the game fun playing that way and that's the only way i care to play it. It would never cross my mind farming events in a circle just so i could get karma. I don't give a flying F*ck about karma nor gold. I play the game. That's it.

 

So if you find runing that event circle boring, why bother doing it? I don't understand...

 

Oh and another thing. In other MMOs there were people that would farm the same exact place 24/7. Not as many people seemed to be bothered by that... 

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