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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » So much for events are dynamic...(and why we can never have good things)

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152 posts found
  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

10/24/12 11:17:08 AM#21
Originally posted by IPolygon
They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

 

A more accurate term would be Scripted Events, then.  The only thing that's dynamic, is how they scale to number of players.. and they don't even do that particularly well.

 

I really wish they were more random.  Then, not only would they be indisputably dynamic, but they'd be a hell of a lot more difficult to just farm monotonously.  but then they'd also be harder to control, and most devs seem to be such control freaks these days.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Naevius

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 319

10/24/12 11:21:36 AM#22

So far Arena Net has been good about adjusting the game as they get feedback, so I would definitely make sure they see stuff like this on the official forums. They have already said they will change the way events scale to improve that aspect.

 

I agree that waypoint costs and repair costs distort the way people play the game, which is unfortunate. Neither existed in GW1.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3291

10/24/12 11:22:49 AM#23
Yes scripts, triggers, patterns and memory all contribute to dynamic content. It all boils down to 1111's and 0000's at the end of the day.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3291

10/24/12 11:27:54 AM#24
Put it this way, the most dynamic thing we could use to be 'dynamic' is the human brain - and that simply means greater pattern recognition and cognitive experimentation. People getting high and mighty about 'dynamic' should offer the new solution that goes beyond patterns and experimentation- should be an interesting read :)

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  fundayz

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/14/10
Posts: 471

10/24/12 11:31:25 AM#25
Originally posted by Dulu

Just awful design.

 

They had to know this was coming. Can't see why people are still playing this awful game.

Yes, a couple of events can be farmed (at no real detriment to other players) so clearly the whole game is just downright broken.

 

 

 

Oh wait.....

 

I don't get people like you and Bcbully. Did you really expect GW2, or any other game  for that matter, to be absolutely flawless? The fact that the game still manages not to hurt players' fun in spite of relatively few loopholes/exploits is a testament to the great underlying design.

If you go through life raging at every little thing that isn't perfect you must be very bitter person in real life.

 

 

Originally posted by Vhaln

A more accurate term would be Scripted Events, then.  The only thing that's dynamic, is how they scale to number of players.. and they don't even do that particularly well.

 

I really wish they were more random.  Then, not only would they be indisputably dynamic, but they'd be a hell of a lot more difficult to just farm monotonously.  but then they'd also be harder to control, and most devs seem to be such control freaks these days.

Dynamic =/= unpredictable

How people still don't understand this kinda puzzles me. "Dynamic" simply means that something changes depending on certain parameters.

Dynamic events have different outcomes depending on player actions, they scale with number of players and DE's can interact when they happen to overlap.

Also, harder to control content leads to even more exploitable scenarios.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3291

10/24/12 11:35:47 AM#26
Bcbully started months ago complaining that everyone would quit through boredom at end game, 'no end game'. Now lo and behold that not happening, we are moving on to something else. The benchmark he often uses is TSW. As far as I can tell TSW is all about repeating content, that's all there is in fact. Bit odd.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1132

10/24/12 11:36:18 AM#27
Originally posted by bcbully

It's bad design.

 

People follow the path of least resistance. From fishing for kills at the base entance in swtor, to people farming the Stilmore spawn in RIFT (at first/ designs changed) to the Fusang facility Zerg in TSW.  It's all bad design. 

Yep bad design. You should be able to afford or acquire reasonable end game gear by the time you reach level cap. But unless you have followed certain specific strategies to max your gold in GW 2, you will fall well short. So you either grind for gold/karma or buy gems with RL $ and convert them to gold. You would think completing your personal story should either give you a full set of exotic gear or enough gold to buy the same when combined with what you have from normal playing, but that isn't the case either. So your choices are grind, craft your own stuff if you can afford to, buy gems and convert them to gold, or forget about level 80 and just reroll.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3291

10/24/12 11:38:45 AM#28
Or do all of those, or stop playing because you do t find any of that fun. If you are stupid enough to play a game you don't enjoy then you are creating you own problems.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  AegisSaga

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/12
Posts: 33

10/24/12 11:38:46 AM#29
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by mmoguy43
I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

What people say on forums about 'optional grind' and reality in game is quite different. People under estimate the amount of grind peple are ready to do for simply looking different. If this doesn't prove it then nothing will.

Yeah, its more of a one-off grind. You still have to grind to get full exotic in one way or another. Karma grind, PvP grind, money grind (for crafted) or Dungeon Grind.

If there was an easy to obtain but ugly set of Exotic gear then people would be less focused on the grind and more focused on doing things they want to do, unfortunately unless you did AC explorable mode repeatedly to level up, chances are it will take you a while to get fully exotic once you are 80.

A full set of crafted exotics armor costs less than 10g, and that's if you don't have guildies who have armorcrafting (or if you don't have it yourself).

Stop exagerating and posting misinformation.

 

I haven't played GW2 for about 2 weeks now, but back then when I got my full exotic gear with gold it cost me 50g and upwards of 70g with the sigils and runes (with only one weapon set and underwater weapon). Crafting was useless since buying the raw materials and crafting the pieces was actually MORE expensive than buying the finished product. Again, I don't know if things changed since I stopped playing, but that is how it was: a huge grind. 

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4646

10/24/12 11:39:10 AM#30
 
 

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2851

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

10/24/12 11:43:18 AM#31

Pretty much the whole "Dynamic Event" deal boasted by GW2 is just glitter and sparkels. It doesn't exist. Most of it is very genrick with it being often a simple 'event step' program which lacks really much in terms of advancement or even variation to 'spice' it up. There are a few events that do have some more effect but they are very few and far between. The end areas are pretty much making laps with a zerg which is anything but fun and more so a 'get to boss, press 1, afk' event.

 

Over-all, their dynamic events actually feel weaker then rift. As simple as 'rifts open, invasions poor to capture points, defend and stop it' is, its a lot more dynamic then most events in GW2. Don't get me wrong, the events they do have can be a bit more entertaining then standerd quests, but they are far from that dynamic aspec tthat makes them really feel that exciting after seeing it for the 20th time in a row in very predictable patterns.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3086

I am more than some of my parts

10/24/12 11:43:40 AM#32

so what you are saying is that a large number of people is playing the game in the fashion that they want, and because the way that these people play doesn't coincide with the way that you want to play, the game is broken.

 

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3291

10/24/12 11:46:41 AM#33
Puritzil that's all they are meant to be, more interesting than quests. The sparkle crap comes from forums like this.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

10/24/12 11:47:33 AM#34
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Put it this way, the most dynamic thing we could use to be 'dynamic' is the human brain - and that simply means greater pattern recognition and cognitive experimentation. People getting high and mighty about 'dynamic' should offer the new solution that goes beyond patterns and experimentation- should be an interesting read :)

Take your typical "defend this spot from centaurs" event, and add these random variables;

  1. spawn types - sometimes a few centaurs, sometimes a lot, sometimes including veterans or even a named leader type, drawn from a pool of centaur characters.
  2. spawn path - they come from one of three different centaur camps, the path of one overlapping with a nearby bandit event (also random, so a little rare, but resulting in possible bandit vs centaur chaos.)
  3. event location - they simply attack one of three different spots, so until the event happens, you don't know where it will be.  
  4. event timing - might happen again in a few minutes, might not be for another few hours.  You'd never know.
  5. Randomize some event NPCs that spawn to help defend, partially scaled to the number of nearby players, or lack thereof.
Sure, it'd still be a pattern, but it'd be impossible to predict, because it'd simply be shuffled every time, and play out differently every time.
 
Multiply that by most of the events in the game, and you'd have a crazy world where all sorts of unpredictable things happen..

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

 
OP  10/24/12 11:50:09 AM#35
Originally posted by eyelolled

so what you are saying is that a large number of people is playing the game in the fashion that they want, and because the way that these people play doesn't coincide with the way that you want to play, the game is broken.

 

 

No not even close. Try again.

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

10/24/12 11:50:26 AM#36
Originally posted by Dulu

Just awful design.

 

They had to know this was coming. Can't see why people are still playing this awful game.

Tell me, how many games don't have this problem when it comes to acquiring points for something or other. 

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

 
OP  10/24/12 11:51:48 AM#37
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by mmoguy43
I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

What people say on forums about 'optional grind' and reality in game is quite different. People under estimate the amount of grind peple are ready to do for simply looking different. If this doesn't prove it then nothing will.

Yeah, its more of a one-off grind. You still have to grind to get full exotic in one way or another. Karma grind, PvP grind, money grind (for crafted) or Dungeon Grind.

If there was an easy to obtain but ugly set of Exotic gear then people would be less focused on the grind and more focused on doing things they want to do, unfortunately unless you did AC explorable mode repeatedly to level up, chances are it will take you a while to get fully exotic once you are 80.

Follow the method in my OP and you will have cultural exotics in no time. Why would you even bother for crafted exotics?

Granted you have the stomach for such a grind. People in these zerg trains are making 30 to 40 gold in couple of days.

Plinx trains gives you karma as well as gold so it covers majority of your grinds at one place.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3291

10/24/12 11:53:15 AM#38
That's my point we are just talking more complexity of variables and triggers. At one end of the spectrum we have a single static quest, at the other end we have such complexity we users cannot spot the pattern. All gw2 does is move the benchmark a little further down this 'dynamic' scale. That's good btw not bad.

Everyone can say I want it more dynamic, I'm sure Anet devs say the same. Il

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3291

10/24/12 11:54:25 AM#39
Reply to vhaln^^

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  User Deleted
10/24/12 11:55:03 AM#40
Originally posted by IPolygon
They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

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