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Darkfall: Unholy Wars

Darkfall: Unholy Wars 

General Discussion  » Repairs! (hope this isnt too nitpicky)

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22 posts found
  itchmon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1614

 
OP  10/23/12 9:39:04 PM#1

one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

 

maybe it could take a portion of the items needed to craft it to fix it.  or maybe the item could only be repaired a finite number of times.  either way, if i have armour made out of hide, and i have some spare hides, i think i should be able to patch it up with those hides.

 

thoughts?

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

Henry Rollins

  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

10/23/12 9:40:42 PM#2
Originally posted by itchmon

one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

 

 

 

thoughts?

NO!!! (You just dont get it)

  itchmon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1614

 
OP  10/23/12 9:43:49 PM#3
enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

Henry Rollins

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 928

There's some lovely filth down here.

10/23/12 9:48:50 PM#4

OP, are you really planning on having the same gear long enough to repair it repeatedly?

 

Really, though, for the full loot aspect and the game itself to work, gear should degrade and not be repairable.  Otherwise, crafting would be meaningless (unless you DO lose all that stuff you had made).  I'm sure there are more and better points to make, but it's been a long day and I spent too much time out in the sun after work.  Little fried, am I.

  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

10/23/12 9:50:20 PM#5
Originally posted by itchmon
enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

Crafted items require a large number of unique resources,  repairing as you go or using gold would only devalue said resources. Which in turn will make controlling resources less important, plus you wont have your gear long enough to matter.

 

I dont understand why people keep trying to "fix" things that arent broken.

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 754

10/23/12 9:51:48 PM#6
Originally posted by Hancakes
Originally posted by itchmon

one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

 

 

 

thoughts?

NO!!! (You just dont get it)

I understand where you're coming from OP, but there's actually a good reason.

Gear HAS to have a time limit on it.  All gear has to be temporary for two major reasons.  What it does is makes sure you never get attached to one piece of gear.  Now this doesn't always work, people still get attached to gear, but it gives the impression that if you use that piece of gear, it will eventually go away forever.  This is an important psychological aspect to FFA full-loot systems. 

It is also important for the player-driven economy that there are no permanent items.  It ensures the economy won't get too flooded with undestroyable high-end items and devalue the resources needed to make them.

I can see how a one-time repair could be good, but it would have to just be prolonging the life of a weapon or piece of armor.  Once something is repaired once it can never be repaired again, I'd be cool with that, as long as it took a fraction of the resources needed to make the item, to repair it.

  123443211234

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/08/07
Posts: 250

10/23/12 9:54:44 PM#7

Repairing is just not something that would work.  The entire economy of the game is based on the destruction of items, the continual need for stuff if you will.  Also, it really would not be necessary and likely would be more cost prohibitive than just getting a new thing made.  Most things are very cheap if you compare high end gear in darkfall in terms of hours or days to attain a set compared to the amount of time it takes in a grinder like say wow for example we are talking dirt ass cheap.  Really  no need to repair.

 

Along those lines an idea that has been talked about at length I'm not sure if its actually gonna be in or not though would be something like a salvage.  I.E. you get some thing thats at like %50 durability left and break it down for a portiion of materials.  This would be extremely handy as usually you end up with a shit ton of mob dropped weapons or gear that have crappy stats compared to crafted stuff, but there still made out of the same stuff.   So you could break down 10 crappy mob dropped swords  and maybe craft 1-2 shiny new swords.

  itchmon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1614

 
OP  10/23/12 9:56:21 PM#8
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Hancakes
Originally posted by itchmon

one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

 

 

 

thoughts?

NO!!! (You just dont get it)

I understand where you're coming from OP, but there's actually a good reason.

Gear HAS to have a time limit on it.  All gear has to be temporary.  What it does is makes sure you never get attached to one piece of gear.  Now this doesn't always work, people still get attached to gear, but it gives the impression that if you use that piece of gear, it will eventually go away forever. 

This is an important psychological aspect to FFA full-loot systems.  It is also important for the player-driven economy that there are no permanent items.

I can see how a one-time repair could be good, but it would have to just be prolonging the life of a weapon or piece of armor.  Once something is repaired once it can never be repaired again, I'd be cool with that.

i gotcha at least to a point.  thanks.  i guess it woujld help to state that my point of view for stuff like this is one of a 5 year player of eve.  in eve, of course, no gear is *really* permanent because it dies if you die.  however if your ship is merely damaged,, instead of smashed completely, then at an outpost you can repair your stuff.

 

nothing lasts forever... because eventually you-sa gonna die.  but if you are careful you can keep your "precious" for a while.

 

would something along those lines work?  damage from non-fatal encounters is repairable but dying permanently and irrevokably damages an item?

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

Henry Rollins

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

10/23/12 9:56:28 PM#9
Originally posted by itchmon
enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

It's just a knee jerk reaction to a proposed change. UO handled this rather well in the early days. Items had a max durrability that degraded with each repair meaning eventually items went poof. This allowed players to repair but maintain the need to continue to buy new items. 

  hcoelho

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 533

10/23/12 9:58:21 PM#10

haha its so fucking funny to read those posts.

 

The hype this game is building will be a bad thing in the end, people that have no clue what the game is about and the concept behind it are getting too damn excited to play it and that smells like frustration.

Take no offense OP, but if you don't get or accept that item decay is MANDATORY for this type of game you will suffer playing it. Btw, Most of  your gear you'll drop before it breaks.

 

WIthout item decay the economy is dead, fights over resourcers will be dead at some point and the game will have more itens than players to use it, but it'll be in such a ridiculous rate that looting an enemy will be worthless.

Crafting would be just for consumables and enchants.

  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

10/23/12 10:02:22 PM#11
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by itchmon
enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

It's just a knee jerk reaction to a proposed change. UO handled this rather well in the early days. Items had a max durrability that degraded with each repair meaning eventually items went poof. This allowed players to repair but maintain the need to continue to buy new items. 

How does repairing items add anything to the game? I also remember UO high end items being rather rare and coveted, thus only pulled out for PvP prior to server down/roll back.

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 754

10/23/12 10:05:48 PM#12
Originally posted by itchmon
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Hancakes
Originally posted by itchmon

one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

 

 

 

thoughts?

NO!!! (You just dont get it)

I understand where you're coming from OP, but there's actually a good reason.

Gear HAS to have a time limit on it.  All gear has to be temporary.  What it does is makes sure you never get attached to one piece of gear.  Now this doesn't always work, people still get attached to gear, but it gives the impression that if you use that piece of gear, it will eventually go away forever. 

This is an important psychological aspect to FFA full-loot systems.  It is also important for the player-driven economy that there are no permanent items.

I can see how a one-time repair could be good, but it would have to just be prolonging the life of a weapon or piece of armor.  Once something is repaired once it can never be repaired again, I'd be cool with that.

i gotcha at least to a point.  thanks.  i guess it woujld help to state that my point of view for stuff like this is one of a 5 year player of eve.  in eve, of course, no gear is *really* permanent because it dies if you die.  however if your ship is merely damaged,, instead of smashed completely, then at an outpost you can repair your stuff.

 

nothing lasts forever... because eventually you-sa gonna die.  but if you are careful you can keep your "precious" for a while.

 

would something along those lines work?  damage from non-fatal encounters is repairable but dying permanently and irrevokably damages an item?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in EvE, isn't it that you don't get all the items a ship drops when it is destroyed, like maybe 50% of them will drop at most, but the rest are destroyed?

That's the major difference.  In Darkfall, ALL your gear drops, as is.  So whoever kills you gets it all, (or you come back and pick it up if you're lucky and/or killed by a mob) ostensibly, so that gear just gets recycled back into the economy immediately.

There might be a rare occasion where your grave will disappear unclaimed (after about an hour) but I doubt that would ever happen.  So 99% of the time, ALL your items go back into the economy, if they were permanent there would be much less need to continue gathering resources and, well, playing the PvE/crafting/gathering aspects of the game.

  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

10/23/12 10:08:26 PM#13
Originally posted by Entinerint
So 99% of the time, ALL your items go back into the economy, if they were permanent there would be much less need to continue gathering resources and, well, playing the PvE/crafting/gathering aspects of the game.

 

 

Well said 

 

  /thread

  Lustmord

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 1108

10/23/12 10:56:07 PM#14
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by itchmon
enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

It's just a knee jerk reaction to a proposed change. UO handled this rather well in the early days. Items had a max durrability that degraded with each repair meaning eventually items went poof. This allowed players to repair but maintain the need to continue to buy new items. 

exactly.

  Flute

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 432

10/24/12 2:03:51 AM#15
Originally posted by itchmon

one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

 

maybe it could take a portion of the items needed to craft it to fix it.  or maybe the item could only be repaired a finite number of times.  either way, if i have armour made out of hide, and i have some spare hides, i think i should be able to patch it up with those hides.

 

thoughts?

What they were talking about a year or two ago was being able to melt down old gear and use the bits you recovered to make new gear (likely getting only  proportion of the resources back when you cut t up, but still more than nothing).

 

Part of why gear was always "going to break no matter what" was to soften the loss of gear in pvp - new old or nearly broken, most things in the game would break into nothing anyway if you didn't lose it in pvp, so everyone was simply in the habit of having spares.  When you made a bow, it was common to make a batch rather than just 1, for example.  I really like the idea of smelthing things down with recycling, and prefer that to repairing things. 

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 754

10/24/12 2:10:14 AM#16
Originally posted by Flute
Originally posted by itchmon

one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

 

maybe it could take a portion of the items needed to craft it to fix it.  or maybe the item could only be repaired a finite number of times.  either way, if i have armour made out of hide, and i have some spare hides, i think i should be able to patch it up with those hides.

 

thoughts?

What they were talking about a year or two ago was being able to melt down old gear and use the bits you recovered to make new gear (likely getting only  proportion of the resources back when you cut t up, but still more than nothing).

 

Part of why gear was always "going to break no matter what" was to soften the loss of gear in pvp - new old or nearly broken, most things in the game would break into nothing anyway if you didn't lose it in pvp, so everyone was simply in the habit of having spares.  When you made a bow, it was common to make a batch rather than just 1, for example.  I really like the idea of smelthing things down with recycling, and prefer that to repairing things. 

I like that too, could be cool.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2691

10/24/12 3:19:58 AM#17

One thing to keep in mind is that while you cant directly repair items, there are skills you can master which as they get higher continue reducing your durability loss allowing you to keep your stuff longer before it breaks. In a way it works kind of like having limited repairs on your gear. Your stuff will last you much longer than the guy who doesnt have that skill, or has it at a lower level.

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 754

10/24/12 4:55:22 AM#18
Originally posted by kaiser3282

One thing to keep in mind is that while you cant directly repair items, there are skills you can master which as they get higher continue reducing your durability loss allowing you to keep your stuff longer before it breaks. In a way it works kind of like having limited repairs on your gear. Your stuff will last you much longer than the guy who doesnt have that skill, or has it at a lower level.

Maintenance.  I maxxed that!

Also the better you are at crafting, the more durability a weapon or armor piece will have too, and therefore the longer it lasts.

  DarthRaiden

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4547

i make art,
till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

10/24/12 8:34:35 AM#19

NO !

 

But the direction DF takes i wouldn't be surpised if you can can repair items or better ites dobnt decay and are all looted.  

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  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2691

10/24/12 8:39:39 AM#20
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by kaiser3282

One thing to keep in mind is that while you cant directly repair items, there are skills you can master which as they get higher continue reducing your durability loss allowing you to keep your stuff longer before it breaks. In a way it works kind of like having limited repairs on your gear. Your stuff will last you much longer than the guy who doesnt have that skill, or has it at a lower level.

Maintenance.  I maxxed that!

Also the better you are at crafting, the more durability a weapon or armor piece will have too, and therefore the longer it lasts.

Also there is transmuting via enchantment. While it wont repair your item directly, you can transmute it to an elemental enchanted weapon of that type (sword, bow, knives, etc). You can take a nearly broken sword, transmute it, and get a sword with a decent amount of durability still on it.

While it wont let you keep that same exact weapon longer, if youre doing transmuting with higher ranked weapons youre going to usually get stronger versions of the transmute.

Anyway, point is there are some ways to reduce the "loss" of items without having an actual repair function. Personally I prefer it the way it is. It creates more of a purpose to mastering such skills and learning how to make use of them rather than everyone in the game being able to just click repair and be done with it. As the main enchanter in my clan I typically had a lot of people in the clan giving me low dura stuff to transmute so they could turn around and use elemental weapons for farming specific mobs with weaknesses to those elements.

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