Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by Galadourn

it would work with minimal turbine-generated content, and plenty of tools to give players the option to make their own content. And a strict ruleset to regulate the player-generated content (i.e. alignment penalties, Security Levels, etc).

A sandbox, in other words.

I think that would ruin Middle Earth in my eyes. They would have to be so restrictive to what players can do to not broke lore/immersion.

For example NO new building of towns.

But it could allow building houses in towns, like exists now. Besides, the LotR lore never stopped Turbine from just inventing things and breaking the lore. I don't think invented towns would be much of a stretch.

Originally posted by asmkm22

It does have, hands down, the greatest community out of any MMO I've played.  People are respectful, polite, willing to help out, and offer advice.  It feels like walking into my local gaming club, surrounded by good people that I may or may not actually know.

I played on Landroval, so can only vouch for that server, but I rarely hear someone complain about the community on any server.

And as good as it is now, it was a thousand times better before. I don't say that lightly. The pre LotRO community was unlike anything I've ever seen in gaming, period. The vast majority of prolific community leaders left after Turbine revealed the changes to the game.

Originally posted by Nebula131

well, i played lotro for quite some time, and after now having some serious "meh...i wanna play something with a great community again" moments am currently patching up-to-date.

i think it is a fine game. it is a themepark, yes. but the story of the books is so well immersed, you can see stuff and go like "aah...wow, here i am" and "oh look, i read about that in..." Right, and all of that would have been a lot better without the invisible walls, impassable mountains, instances and quest lock outs that prevent you from actually exploring.

also anti-social is not quite what i would say. I would. Nobody groups unless there's a group quest and the way the game is set up makes it damn near impossible to group with friends and do a quest together because you have to ALL be on the same step.  sure you can't go in every dungeon if you haven't got the quest. but the social options and emotes make a fine social game of it. Every game has emotes, that doesn't make it social.

if you don't want to "fight through middle earth" then don't do it, go to bree or rivendell and sit with friends around a fire (that would then be "live in middle earth" and there are quite a few folks who do that) There are no game mechanics that support that style of play. I can sit in an Inn and chat for only so long. The difference is, in a sandbox game, there would be gameplay reasons to sit in an Inn like in SWG, where people went there to buff and heal.

 

 

surely i got some points that i find a bit negative. and of course a totally sandboxed MEO could be an awesome game with exploration and such. but it could also go horribly wrong in case of community matters ("you heard about that elven raider guild that practically burned down the shire and killed everyone there and then made their player city there? - yeah, i heard the hobbits went to settle down around Amon Sûl now") Sandbox does not mean FFA PVP.

 

fact is, i was quite happy with lotro (not so the case with swg nge) and hope when patching is finally done i get to live and fight in middle earth again because to live the most deciding factor is the community and not the game itself.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Nebula131

well, i played lotro for quite some time, and after now having some serious "meh...i wanna play something with a great community again" moments am currently patching up-to-date.

i think it is a fine game. it is a themepark, yes. but the story of the books is so well immersed, you can see stuff and go like "aah...wow, here i am" and "oh look, i read about that in..." Right, and all of that would have been a lot better without the invisible walls, impassable mountains, instances and quest lock outs that prevent you from actually exploring.

also anti-social is not quite what i would say. I would. Nobody groups unless there's a group quest and the way the game is set up makes it damn near impossible to group with friends and do a quest together because you have to ALL be on the same step.  sure you can't go in every dungeon if you haven't got the quest. but the social options and emotes make a fine social game of it. Every game has emotes, that doesn't make it social.

if you don't want to "fight through middle earth" then don't do it, go to bree or rivendell and sit with friends around a fire (that would then be "live in middle earth" and there are quite a few folks who do that) There are no game mechanics that support that style of play. I can sit in an Inn and chat for only so long. The difference is, in a sandbox game, there would be gameplay reasons to sit in an Inn like in SWG, where people went there to buff and heal.

 

 

surely i got some points that i find a bit negative. and of course a totally sandboxed MEO could be an awesome game with exploration and such. but it could also go horribly wrong in case of community matters ("you heard about that elven raider guild that practically burned down the shire and killed everyone there and then made their player city there? - yeah, i heard the hobbits went to settle down around Amon Sûl now") Sandbox does not mean FFA PVP.

 

fact is, i was quite happy with lotro (not so the case with swg nge) and hope when patching is finally done i get to live and fight in middle earth again because to live the most deciding factor is the community and not the game itself.

 

Is your first point a joke? All fantasy mmos use mountains and natural barriers to edge zones, EQ, EQII, AoC etc... etc.. Lotro is more explorable than most games, you can climb the mountains and access everything you can see in the zone. I was up high on a hill in Great River looking across the hills and forests and knowing that I could get to everything in the zone. It's not on rails like SWtoR. There are plenty of games where the features within a zone aren't accessible but lotro isn't one of them.

If you are going to criticise this game then at least tell the truth otherwise no one will have respect for your opinions.

Originally posted by Entris38
If I remember correctly it had once been "MEO---Middle Earth Online", I don't believe Turbine was even in the picture then. I do believe that was scrapped. I was in closed beta for Lotro and it has always been the same since then.

First wave of Beta as well and the game has not changed... has more content of course but the mechanics are the same since launch.

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then. And those video links to MEO adverts show nothing to prove otherwise either. 

Lotro has always struggled to improve its gameplay over the years but unfortunately the mechanics reached their limits with MoM xpac I believe and their graphics never improved past that xpac either. 

As a result, the only way Turbine is able to stay in business is to become a pay-to-win cash shop as they have done. 

I probably already posted this, but oh well.  There are two versions of LOTRO.  The game as it was released, and the game after the move to F2P. 

LOTRO was always a good game.  It was never a great game.  It was also very basic.  Everything was easy to do, easy to play.  The best thing about LOTRO was the in game community, which was clearly evident even in closed Beta.  I think the age of the player base was and is older.

The game was never a sandbox game.  If you played WOW, it took you about 30 seconds to figure out how to play this game.  There was never any great system that LOTRO touted, the best of the game was and is the music (not the /music system, which was evolded from AC2....but the actual in game music).

It did not sell very well.  They have never really marketed it well, and they offered a Lifetime Subscription on release which a lot of people actually took.  This totally backfired on Turbine, because those people paid a one time fee of a few hundred dollars and never paid another dime.  Once people started leaving, which happens in every game, the percentage of the player base was even more Lifers.

So they had to make the game F2P.  And there the game changed.  You got an inkling of it before hand with the reputation system that was included in a patch.  LOTRO always had the deed system, which was a huge grind.  Now there was a reputation system, which was another huge grind.

And they kept on adding grinds, so much so that it may be the grindiest non Asian MMO ever to exist.  Deeds, Reputation, an awful Legendary Item system, legendary relic upgrade system, token grinds for scrolls to upgrade your loot, a shard refining system to refine and combine your relics into better ones, a skirmish grind system for better loot, crafting grinds, PVP grinds....it took a lot of fun out of the game.

The move to F2P also meant that they had to redesign the way they made expansions.  The original game was sprawled out over all the zones, but now they had to sell everything in the Turbine Store in little chunks.  So goodbye were the quest chains that took you to other places, and in came the massive quest hub system so prominent in themepark games.

Go here, get 12 quests that all revlove around killing X of Y or interacting with X of Y, come back and get the meta-quest for that hub and then go on to the next hub.  If you played Mirkwood, you know what I am talking about.

If you play the game, you play it because it's an open, seamless world (more or less) and you like the story or lore behind the main quest line which is many hundreds of quests long.  Some arcs are very good, like the Angmar one.  Some are forgetable, like Endenwaith.

The regular quests are lame, so much so that it is very hard to read them as they all are basically the same.  Something epic is happening to some NPC, usually withing 200 meters, and he needs you to deal with it which involves killing about 8 somethings or looting 8 somethings.  He will give you a reward, which you will sell in three seconds to a nearby vendor.

The classes are all well thought out and the two newer classes (Warden and Runekeeper) are two of the great MMO classes.

Despite Turbines hated way of trying to bleed their customers out of every nickel, the game is still good.  It will never be great though.

Originally posted by Czanrei

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then. And those video links to MEO adverts show nothing to prove otherwise either. 

Lotro has always struggled to improve its gameplay over the years but unfortunately the mechanics reached their limits with MoM xpac I believe and their graphics never improved past that xpac either. 

As a result, the only way Turbine is able to stay in business is to become a pay-to-win cash shop as they have done. 

Well the npc models and environment details are far superior in the Isengard and now the RoR expansion, so I don't agree.

Just out of interest have you played lotro since alpha testing?

Originally posted by Thenextbigthing

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Nebula131

well, i played lotro for quite some time, and after now having some serious "meh...i wanna play something with a great community again" moments am currently patching up-to-date.

i think it is a fine game. it is a themepark, yes. but the story of the books is so well immersed, you can see stuff and go like "aah...wow, here i am" and "oh look, i read about that in..." Right, and all of that would have been a lot better without the invisible walls, impassable mountains, instances and quest lock outs that prevent you from actually exploring.

also anti-social is not quite what i would say. I would. Nobody groups unless there's a group quest and the way the game is set up makes it damn near impossible to group with friends and do a quest together because you have to ALL be on the same step.  sure you can't go in every dungeon if you haven't got the quest. but the social options and emotes make a fine social game of it. Every game has emotes, that doesn't make it social.

if you don't want to "fight through middle earth" then don't do it, go to bree or rivendell and sit with friends around a fire (that would then be "live in middle earth" and there are quite a few folks who do that) There are no game mechanics that support that style of play. I can sit in an Inn and chat for only so long. The difference is, in a sandbox game, there would be gameplay reasons to sit in an Inn like in SWG, where people went there to buff and heal.

 

 

surely i got some points that i find a bit negative. and of course a totally sandboxed MEO could be an awesome game with exploration and such. but it could also go horribly wrong in case of community matters ("you heard about that elven raider guild that practically burned down the shire and killed everyone there and then made their player city there? - yeah, i heard the hobbits went to settle down around Amon Sûl now") Sandbox does not mean FFA PVP.

 

fact is, i was quite happy with lotro (not so the case with swg nge) and hope when patching is finally done i get to live and fight in middle earth again because to live the most deciding factor is the community and not the game itself.

 

Is your first point a joke? Not at all. All fantasy mmos use mountains and natural barriers to edge zones, EQ, EQII, AoC etc... etc.. No, they don't. Many themeparks do, sure. Vanguard, SWG, Darkfall, Fallen Earth, Asheron's Call, many good games do not. Not to mention LotRO is based on worlds that already exist and are mapped out. There were never impassable mountains in The Shire, but LotRO sticks them there, rather than making a cohesive game world. They put up funnels and little hills you can't go over, destroying the way Middle Earth actually works. No other game that I know of makes instances that tell you you cannot enter without a quest either. Instancing in general is just bad game design. Lotro is more explorable than most games AHAHAHAHHAHAAH no. I tried exploring in LotRO and got insta killed by the game (game, not mob) because I was in an area that was too high for my level. And the aforementioned dungeons you can't enter... , you can climb the mountains and access everything you can see in the zone. Except what's beyond those mountains. "You can access everything you can see in this small cage! I was up high on a hill in Great River looking across the hills and forests and knowing that I could get to everything in the zone. That's great, I couldn't even get to that zone because the game doesn't let you. It's not on rails like SWtoR. It pretty much is.

If you are going to criticise this game then at least tell the truth otherwise no one will have respect for your opinions.

 

I have told the truth, you have not. Or you're telling the truth from a HORRIBLY limited perspective.

Originally posted by Czanrei

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Czanrei

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

HA! 

That was epic, one of the best counter-attack i have seen on these forums.

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Czanrei

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

 

HA! 

That was epic, one of the best counter-attack i have seen on these forums.

Middle Earth Online never even made it out of concept stages, there was no alpha.

Yeah, great counter-argument!  /facepalm

Originally posted by GolbezTheLion

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Czanrei

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

 

HA! 

That was epic, one of the best counter-attack i have seen on these forums.

Middle Earth Online never even made it out of concept stages, there was no alpha.

Yeah, great counter-argument!  /facepalm

Well, im sorry i don't spend all my time and life devoted for gaming and useless information such as the one you provided me because there is no MEO. I saw a comment and someone countering it (regardless if it is false or not) and laughed irl. 

Truth be told...this is a WoW clone mmo so there you go.

Ill just resort to the typed emotion buttons    /facepalm

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by GolbezTheLion

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Czanrei

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

 

HA! 

That was epic, one of the best counter-attack i have seen on these forums.

Middle Earth Online never even made it out of concept stages, there was no alpha.

Yeah, great counter-argument!  /facepalm

 

Well, im sorry i don't spend all my time and life devoted for gaming and useless information such as the one you provided me because there is no MEO. I saw a comment and someone countering it (regardless if it is false or not) and laughed irl. 

Truth be told...this is a WoW clone mmo so there you go.

 

Ill just resort to the typed emotion buttons    /facepalm

Oh I see, so game companies are only allowed to make games in the genres YOU like...

Hmmm then I HATE Betheda for making open world single player rpgs. They should be making FPS instead! I like thoose.

The WOW clone argument is as stupid now as it was 5 years ago.

Originally posted by GolbezTheLion

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Czanrei

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

 

HA! 

That was epic, one of the best counter-attack i have seen on these forums.

Middle Earth Online never even made it out of concept stages, there was no alpha.

Yeah, great counter-argument!  /facepalm

Er, yes it did... There were trailers and gameplay and dev roundtables at the Turbine Nation events, within the offices, and to the alpha testers. It was indeed a functioning game. Where did you think LotRO came from? Are you trying to imply MEO didn't become LotRO and that I'm just making this up?

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by GolbezTheLion

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Czanrei

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

 

HA! 

That was epic, one of the best counter-attack i have seen on these forums.

Middle Earth Online never even made it out of concept stages, there was no alpha.

Yeah, great counter-argument!  /facepalm

 

Well, im sorry i don't spend all my time and life devoted for gaming and useless information such as the one you provided me because there is no MEO. I saw a comment and someone countering it (regardless if it is false or not) and laughed irl. 

Truth be told...this is a WoW clone mmo so there you go.

 

Ill just resort to the typed emotion buttons    /facepalm

Oh I see, so game companies are only allowed to make games in the genres YOU like...

Hmmm then I HATE Betheda for making open world single player rpgs. They should be making FPS instead! I like thoose.

The WOW clone argument is as stupid now as it was 5 years ago.

The WoW clone argument was never stupid. A game should never be a cheap carbon copy of another mediocre game. It should stand on its own. Much worse when you take a good game, remove all the good parts, just to be similar to WoW to try to cash in on a trend. Games should NEVER be made like that, or you get soulless tripe like LotRO and AoC and Rift.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by GolbezTheLion

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Czanrei

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

 

HA! 

That was epic, one of the best counter-attack i have seen on these forums.

Middle Earth Online never even made it out of concept stages, there was no alpha.

Yeah, great counter-argument!  /facepalm

 

Well, im sorry i don't spend all my time and life devoted for gaming and useless information such as the one you provided me because there is no MEO. I saw a comment and someone countering it (regardless if it is false or not) and laughed irl. 

Truth be told...this is a WoW clone mmo so there you go.

 

Ill just resort to the typed emotion buttons    /facepalm

Oh I see, so game companies are only allowed to make games in the genres YOU like...

Hmmm then I HATE Betheda for making open world single player rpgs. They should be making FPS instead! I like thoose.

The WOW clone argument is as stupid now as it was 5 years ago.

The WoW clone argument was never stupid. A game should never be a cheap carbon copy of another mediocre game. It should stand on its own. Much worse when you take a good game, remove all the good parts, just to be similar to WoW to try to cash in on a trend. Games should NEVER be made like that, or you get soulless tripe like LotRO and AoC and Rift.

So you actually think that all games should be designed to cater to you and be of genres that you like?

Seems abit narcissistic to me...

I didnt like WoW very much but I still can see that  its a very good game and extremly well designed. If you don't see that then I don't know what to say.

And btw, theres alot of differences between WoW, LotrO and AoC.

MEO was just a bad idea and its better to just let it live on in dreams..

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by GolbezTheLion

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Czanrei

I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

 

HA! 

That was epic, one of the best counter-attack i have seen on these forums.

Middle Earth Online never even made it out of concept stages, there was no alpha.

Yeah, great counter-argument!  /facepalm

 

Well, im sorry i don't spend all my time and life devoted for gaming and useless information such as the one you provided me because there is no MEO. I saw a comment and someone countering it (regardless if it is false or not) and laughed irl. 

Truth be told...this is a WoW clone mmo so there you go.

 

Ill just resort to the typed emotion buttons    /facepalm

Oh I see, so game companies are only allowed to make games in the genres YOU like...

Hmmm then I HATE Betheda for making open world single player rpgs. They should be making FPS instead! I like thoose.

The WOW clone argument is as stupid now as it was 5 years ago.

The WoW clone argument was never stupid. A game should never be a cheap carbon copy of another mediocre game. It should stand on its own. Much worse when you take a good game, remove all the good parts, just to be similar to WoW to try to cash in on a trend. Games should NEVER be made like that, or you get soulless tripe like LotRO and AoC and Rift.

So you actually think that all games should be designed to cater to you and be of genres that you like?

 

And btw, theres alot of differences between WoW, LotrO and AoC.

MEO was just a bad idea and its better to just let it live on in dreams..

 

I believe games should have their own merit and not copy someone else's IP in a desperate hope to leech off their success, yes. I believe games shouldn't shovel more garbage into an already saturated genre. They should create something that is their own. If I wanted WOW I'd play WoW. 

And the differences between those games is superficial at best. Very minor and slight differences. Those who didn't play pre WoW MMOs see the small differences as big. BUt those who were used to the massive amount of differences all pre WoW MMOs had from one another, the differences between those three games are pathetic. 

And why was MEO a bad idea? [mod edit]

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by DavisFlight

So you actually think that all games should be designed to cater to you and be of genres that you like?

 

And btw, theres alot of differences between WoW, LotrO and AoC.

MEO was just a bad idea and its better to just let it live on in dreams..

 

I believe games should have their own merit and not copy someone else's IP in a desperate hope to leech off their success, yes. I believe games shouldn't shovel more garbage into an already saturated genre. They should create something that is their own. If I wanted WOW I'd play WoW. 

And the differences between those games is superficial at best. Very minor and slight differences. Those who didn't play pre WoW MMOs see the small differences as big. BUt those who were used to the massive amount of differences all pre WoW MMOs had from one another, the differences between those three games are pathetic. 

 

And why was MEO a bad idea? Or are you just a troll. You don't seem to have any idea what MEO was. 

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

Have you seen the "expansions" for the last couple of years? Pretty bad and lack of content. Do you notice that every server other than Brandy, E, and landy is dead? Most of all, did you know this game is F2P?

Originally posted by xalvi

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by DavisFlight

So you actually think that all games should be designed to cater to you and be of genres that you like?

 

And btw, theres alot of differences between WoW, LotrO and AoC.

MEO was just a bad idea and its better to just let it live on in dreams..

 

I believe games should have their own merit and not copy someone else's IP in a desperate hope to leech off their success, yes. I believe games shouldn't shovel more garbage into an already saturated genre. They should create something that is their own. If I wanted WOW I'd play WoW. 

And the differences between those games is superficial at best. Very minor and slight differences. Those who didn't play pre WoW MMOs see the small differences as big. BUt those who were used to the massive amount of differences all pre WoW MMOs had from one another, the differences between those three games are pathetic. 

 

And why was MEO a bad idea? Or are you just a troll. You don't seem to have any idea what MEO was. 

[mod edit]

 

[mod edit]

Have you seen the "expansions" for the last couple of years? Pretty bad and lack of content. Do you notice that every server other than Brandy, E, and landy is dead? Most of all, did you know this game is F2P?

Not to mention all the Earner's Reports for Warner Brothers showing that Turbine is losing them money. They went to FTP in a desperate gambit to keep their game afloat, and it worked, very VERY temporarily. Notice how Turbine isn't touting any new numbers or growth since the first month of FTP? 

The biggest IP in the world, fresh off the release of the biggest trilogy in the history of cinema.... 

and it couldn't even stay afloat. 

Would have done better if it had actually been a unique game instead of trying to leech off WoW and forever being put in WoW's shadow.