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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The number 1 rule of sandboxes..(lookin' at you Smed)

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120 posts found
  gobla

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1421

C'est la vie.

10/21/12 5:42:46 AM#21
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by gobla

Very true. Both of these really form the core of a sandbox's economy, which is a vital part of it.

Whilst less important I'd add an additional rule that every material must be usefull.

Standard MMO crafting progression starting with bronze, which is soon replaced by iron and others, eventually repliced by arcanium / unobtanium / magical super metal #36 doesn't really work for a sandbox as it will turn 90% of items and crafting recipes effectively useless.

This in turn will, once the game reaches maturity, leave you with an overpriced and barren newbie item market and leave all areas that don't possess the best crafting materials empty and devoid of any player industry.

Sure. But lets be honest, not every material can be made useful. There will be materials which are less useful or outright useless. Its a balance thing.

Hardly.

Simply make every item require a large variety of materials.

If iron items also require a measure of bronze to craft then this will insure there's still a demand for bronze, which in turn stimulates a healthy supply as well as competition which will cause the market for bronze items themselves to remain alive as well.

EvE is a wonderfull example of this. There are many rare materials from moons and wormholes that are required to create advanced T2 and T3 items. Yet in order to construct any of these materials you still require all the base materials in EvE.

Around 99% of all modules in EvE require the most common material, tritanium, to be constructed.

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  JWTuna

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/29/12
Posts: 23

10/21/12 5:51:48 AM#22

Without an intricate and responsive economy, all other sandbox features are basicially irrelevent. So I agree completely with anything ~ item degrade, crafting, etc ~ that makes an economy more interactive and complex. 

 

Technically territory control alone makes a sanbox of some form, but it is very shallow if this control has no impact beyond "I am here, you are not...haha!". If territory control limits access to crafting materials, certain NPC traders, etc, which are esential to keeping a weapon in your hand (because of item degrade); that has a real influence on an active economy, so it is a much better sandbox. Money is a great incentive to keep people active and changing thier world - as oppose to territory control which only limits leveling or gear, which will inevitably die as games mature and new content is added.

  Larloch

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/12
Posts: 19

10/21/12 6:02:22 AM#23
I don't mind if crafting is a big deal as long as you can still find items. I hate how in Fallen Earth a guy could be blasting you with his gun and if you kill him you can't even take it. Materials and crafting are a great way to get the little kiddies to go out and play in the sand but it's not the only way. I personally think crafting should be supplemental especially in a fantasy mmo.
  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3207

Veni, Vidi, Converti

10/21/12 6:08:17 AM#24

Wow, that's really abstracted down. Hard to disagree with... I'm tryin'.

  Apraxis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1509

10/21/12 6:10:28 AM#25
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by PittyH

 

 

The number 1 rule of sandboxes is... "Items must be able to be destroyed".

Every single item must either degrade on use, or be completely destroyed from either A NPC or a Player / Environment.

This in turn creates an ecconomy, and prevents market inflation.

It creates player jobs/crafting/trading etc etc.

 

 

I think the number 2 rule should be "Every item in the game can also be crafted"

 

Just like eve online

How is that number 1 rule? Number 1 rule to sandbox should be the Sand, aka changeable world. None of that fixed static crap,

No.. it is the number one rule.. maybe a little bit generalized. Be able to create objects, and those objects have to be able to be destroyed. That is the sand. If those objects are weapons, armors, houses, vegetables, roads, cities, fortresses or whatever is just the amount of sand. But that is basicly the essence of a sandbox.

Another rule might be, that those objects have to be persistent(until destruction) and tradeable. No bind on equip or bind on pickup.

  AzurePrower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/07
Posts: 1545

Ahh yes, "Hypers." The people who praise and hate every MMORPG... We've dismissed that claim.

10/21/12 6:13:05 AM#26

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that sand box fans will never be satisfied because they don't really know what they want.

  defector1968

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/10
Posts: 400

Real Animal lovers are ONLY the vegetarians

10/21/12 6:15:19 AM#27
1 word for this thread = ROFL
  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3545

Hipster

10/21/12 6:15:59 AM#28
Originally posted by Larloch
I don't mind if crafting is a big deal as long as you can still find items. I hate how in Fallen Earth a guy could be blasting you with his gun and if you kill him you can't even take it. Materials and crafting are a great way to get the little kiddies to go out and play in the sand but it's not the only way. I personally think crafting should be supplemental especially in a fantasy mmo.

So long as the things you find have been made by a player or are of worse quality then that's ok. Your last line should read "in a fantasy themepark" , this is a discussion about sandboxes and I am sure you didn't mean to say crafting should be supplemental in a sandbox game.

 

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3545

Hipster

10/21/12 6:17:42 AM#29
Originally posted by defector1968
1 word for this thread = ROFL

That's 4.

  Kenze

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/07
Posts: 1235

10/21/12 6:21:43 AM#30
you know the game is gonna have a cash shop and NO ONE will buy items from a cash shop that can be destroyed/degrades or be stolen.

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  Apraxis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1509

10/21/12 6:25:01 AM#31
Originally posted by Kenze
you know the game is gonna have a cash shop and NO ONE will buy items from a cash shop that can be destroyed/degrades or be stolen.

Well. that is one point, why i think cash shops and sandboxes dont fit well together. But i dont know, maybe there is some way to do a cash shop well for a sandbox. How is the EvE cash shop?

  Hairysun

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1068

Boo ....

10/21/12 6:29:31 AM#32

 

I would be perfectly content with a rehash Star Wars Galaxies crafting/resource gathering system.  Happens to apply to both of the OPs suggestions as well. 

 

~Hairysun

 

http://www.straightdope.com/

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

10/21/12 6:31:12 AM#33

Sandbox style game does not mean a total sandbox mmo, EQNext will be an hybrid with some soundbox features.Smed said months ago that it would look more like a cross between EQ and Vanguard with updated features, ill find the interview.

If the OP really thinks that EQNext will have those features then he might as well bow out now lol.

I think he will take Vanguards crafting system and expand it plus he will take Vanguard diplomacy system and expand that. He has already said that the classes will have more in common with EQ than they do with EQ2,Vanguards classes are share more in common with EQ than they do EQ2.

We know it's going to be an open world like vanguards rather than the zoning boxed of world of EQ2. I hope he brings back a feature from EQ, that was being able to drop items on the floor.

 

  User Deleted
10/21/12 6:35:57 AM#34
Originally posted by PittyH

 

 

The number 1 rule of sandboxes is... "Items must be able to be destroyed".

Every single item must either degrade on use, or be completely destroyed from either A NPC or a Player / Environment.

This in turn creates an ecconomy, and prevents market inflation.

It creates player jobs/crafting/trading etc etc.

 

 

I think the number 2 rule should be "Every item in the game can also be crafted"

 

Just like eve online

Disagree with both.  Although crafting is high on my list, I dont particularly like items that degrade over time or are destroyed.  A much better way is to have the items be disenchantable for crafting materials, similar to GW2 and Asherons Call.

 

My #1 rule of sandbox (well ok 2 #1's) is player driven content, and exploration centric.  Give me a huge world that is damgerous and exciting.

  Myrdynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1452

10/21/12 6:42:14 AM#35

Asheron's Call had the best loot system of all time, any none of the items could be crafted, but all could be modified.

Also none of them decayed, yet the economy was steller

 

  maddhatter44

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 79

10/21/12 6:44:47 AM#36

I dont believe items must be forcefully destroyed, (aka you can repiar everything to full again...maybe at increased price each time or something).

 

but i still want unique items dropped from super hard dragon or w/e.

jsut make certain dragons* only spawn limited times per week. with limited number of drops. maybe just 1 drop per kill. 1 dragon per day.

 

Have many many different items that can drop..like 100+   

(hell, idc if some have same skin, just different stats, or unique skill attached---item shoots fireball upon hit)

would make having lots of different items easier. 

 

and maybe not let that certain item drop again to other is destroyed. or have max of 3 in world.

 

This combined with full looting  PvP would be awesome xD

 

idk just a thought

 

  shinkan

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/07
Posts: 229

10/21/12 6:44:52 AM#37

In addition to the OP requirements, the 1 char per server is also something i support. Makes people more dedicated to their choice, while also significantly reducing metagaming. That people gets extra accounts is not a problem, shows dedication if they want to use a second for spying, crafting or whatever.

These features is among the things that made SWG fun for me.

  User Deleted
10/21/12 6:45:01 AM#38
Originally posted by Myrdynn

Asheron's Call had the best loot system of all time, any none of the items could be crafted, but all could be modified.

Also none of them decayed, yet the economy was steller

 

100% agreed.  Its high time a company followed some of the better things that made AC fun and the loot system is bar none the best I have ever experienced in my 14 years in this genre.

  Apraxis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1509

10/21/12 6:45:47 AM#39
Originally posted by Myrdynn

Asheron's Call had the best loot system of all time, any none of the items could be crafted, but all could be modified.

Also none of them decayed, yet the economy was steller

 

and it was not a sandbox.

  Apraxis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1509

10/21/12 6:49:35 AM#40
Originally posted by Rimmersman

Sandbox style game does not mean a total sandbox mmo, EQNext will be an hybrid with some soundbox features.Smed said months ago that it would look more like a cross between EQ and Vanguard with updated features, ill find the interview.

If the OP really thinks that EQNext will have those features then he might as well bow out now lol.

I think he will take Vanguards crafting system and expand it plus he will take Vanguard diplomacy system and expand that. He has already said that the classes will have more in common with EQ than they do with EQ2,Vanguards classes are share more in common with EQ than they do EQ2.

We know it's going to be an open world like vanguards rather than the zoning boxed of world of EQ2. I hope he brings back a feature from EQ, that was being able to drop items on the floor.

 

Well.. it could of course be the case. But that wouldnt be a sandbox and even more what the point of that?

As much as i remember Vanguard was a huge mistake and financial disaster. Wouldnt that be the last thing to do, to redo a mistake and financial disaster?

 

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