Trending Games | WildStar | World of Warcraft | Guild Wars 2 | Elder Scrolls Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,637,357 Users Online:0
Games:678  Posts:6,072,631
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Paying subs for an MMO is an outdated model

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search
125 posts found
  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

10/19/12 2:49:30 PM#81
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by coretex666

I would pay 50 USD / month for a top quality game and I believe i am not alone.

Problem of recent P2P games is not the business model, but the fact that they lack quality to be profitable using it.

I disagree that it is an outdated model.

 

Because you believe because you are paying 50 dollars a month that you are going to get a higher quality experience, it's just not true you are just failing into the scam. it's your money though so i don't really care what you do with it. i know i won't be supporting sub based mmo's ever again.

No, I would be paying the money because I choose to. It's supply and demand. If they offer sufficient quality for which there would be demand at higher price, they would offer it at that price because it would result in higher profits which is the purpose of doing business.

You are not forced to pay that sub, you just have information that there is supply of such product at certain price and you decide whether you want to represent demand for that supply or not.

"Failing into the scam" is like saying you would pay the price because you are stupid...

 

The problem is they ARE NOT offering suffienct quality to justify the subscription money.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

10/19/12 2:50:47 PM#82
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by coretex666

I would pay 50 USD / month for a top quality game and I believe i am not alone.

Problem of recent P2P games is not the business model, but the fact that they lack quality to be profitable using it.

I disagree that it is an outdated model.

 

Because you believe because you are paying 50 dollars a month that you are going to get a higher quality experience, it's just not true you are just failing into the scam. it's your money though so i don't really care what you do with it. i know i won't be supporting sub based mmo's ever again.

No, I would be paying the money because I choose to. It's supply and demand. If they offer sufficient quality for which there would be demand at higher price, they would offer it at that price because it would result in higher profits which is the purpose of doing business.

You are not forced to pay that sub, you just have information that there is supply of such product at certain price and you decide whether you want to represent demand for that supply or not.

"Failing into the scam" is like saying you would pay the price because you are stupid...

 

can i really have a logically conversation with a person that is following an mmo that doesn't even exist(titan)..that proves my point.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

10/19/12 2:53:26 PM#83
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by coretex666

I would pay 50 USD / month for a top quality game and I believe i am not alone.

Problem of recent P2P games is not the business model, but the fact that they lack quality to be profitable using it.

I disagree that it is an outdated model.

 

Because you believe because you are paying 50 dollars a month that you are going to get a higher quality experience, it's just not true you are just failing into the scam. it's your money though so i don't really care what you do with it. i know i won't be supporting sub based mmo's ever again.

No, I would be paying the money because I choose to. It's supply and demand. If they offer sufficient quality for which there would be demand at higher price, they would offer it at that price because it would result in higher profits which is the purpose of doing business.

You are not forced to pay that sub, you just have information that there is supply of such product at certain price and you decide whether you want to represent demand for that supply or not.

"Failing into the scam" is like saying you would pay the price because you are stupid...

 

At least I'm honest about it. When I go back to WOW--and at some point I will--I will pay the sub because I have to not because I think I'm getting more there than in GW2. Why go back? My 2 level 85 characters... just habit. Or nostalgia...or addiction... I'm sure its one of those.

 

But trust me, I will think long and hard before I ever again buy into any new MMO with a compulsory sub.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2621

10/19/12 2:53:55 PM#84
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by stux
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Istavaan
people are just conditioned to think mmo's should have a subscription fee, if  you asked someone who hasn't played an mmo what they think about paying 15 dollars a month for a game they already paid  60 dollars for, they'd simple say "are you high"..it's a scam and always has been.

Exactly. We bought into the scam when the infrastructure and bandwith cost a lot of money...but in 2012? Please...

The cost of making, fixing bugs/balancing/etc., and updating these are huge.

 

So many people here seem to think developers should work for free or someone else should pay for it.

 

Please......

 

Stop begging or stop playing.

 

 

I don't need to beg i can get an mmo now that has the same quality as an mmo that has a sub, it would be stupid of me to pay for something that i can get for free.

That only being the case because the so called "quality" F2P MMOs were P2P to begin with. Had they been envisioned as F2P from the go, they'd have never been made. And had they been successful, they'd have never been converted to F2P. F2P conversion is a measure of last resort, because all the other alternatives are worse.

Converted games are largely like buying something at the Goodwill store, yes, you can get it for almost nothing, but only because someone else paid for it already and got rid of it.

So techincally, you can sort of have AAA quality in a F2P game, but only after the game tanks.

Expecting AAA games to be "free" out of the gate or think they should be all be free outright is just silly.

 

GW2 is of the same quality as any sub based mmo so how can you justify a sub when arenanet can give you it for free, yes you may not like gw2 and thats fine, im sure you don't like every sub based mmo either..but they are all the bloody same, same concept just arranged differently.

Well, because GW2 has a full box price, that covers most of the development costs.

Typical F2P games have no box price. Even the so called "good ones" that used to be P2P.

Plus GW2 has a non cosmetic only cash shop, which is another big turn off for some.

I would rather pay a sub fee and have access to everything, than not pay a sub fee and get nickled and dimed to death.

 

But all that is beside the point, there are damn few games around worth my TIME to play. If a game is worth my time, I don't mind paying a sub for it, if it isn't, having no sub fee won't make me want to play it more.

 

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7395

"Really officer, they're herbs."

10/19/12 2:58:36 PM#85
Originally posted by chryses

MMO's are going to have to go to a FTP / BTP model otherwise they won't survive.

In 2001 I started playing MMO's and I happily paid a sub due to the lack of MMO's out there.  Not to mention virtually no competition from console or PC.  (Wii, smartphones, hand held devices didn't even exist!)

In today's market there are:

- consoles

- PC single player games like Skyrim

- Hand held devices

- dozens of MMO's

- Wii

- Flash games on Face book

- Smart phones / iPad

There are multiple ways for a gamer to get a fix.  In the past 3 years I have seen a trend of MMO's being packed for 3 months at launch then dying a quick death.  Players won't commit to an MMO long term if there is a sub.  There is always a new MMO on the horizon or a new console or game being released.

An MMO needs a lot of population or by its very nature it dies badly.  FTP / BTP is the only model that will work going forward and if companies insist on sticking with a sub model, then they have literally set themselves up to fail.

My thread isn't a support thread for FTP / BTP btw.  Its about the changing gaming market and how subs are not justifiable anymore.

 

The reason so many MMO's have not been all that successful is simple.  They were mediocre games at best.   They had little sustainable gaming elements.   They were all pretty much themepark throwaway games and the only way some could stay in business was to go to the F2P model.    I do not see EVE going F2P any time soon, or WoW for that matter.     I honestly think gamers would pay $20 US sub a month if the game was worth it.     Right now there are none that would constitute paying a sub over the standard $14.95 a month.    Games whose only hook are raids and PvP BG's that come onto the market post WoW will never be any near as successful as WoW.    Thus the reason we see so many that either fold up or go F2P.     People get tired of the same-old same-old.    Give them something good with sustainable game play elements and they'll be more than happy to pay a monthly fee.    Hell, they'd be throwing money at a company saying "Here, take my money!"

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1604

10/19/12 3:00:08 PM#86
Lack of client portability is the issue. Not the subscription model.

You stay sassy!

  coretex666

Elite Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1720

"I shall take your position into consideration"

10/19/12 3:03:36 PM#87
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by coretex666

I would pay 50 USD / month for a top quality game and I believe i am not alone.

Problem of recent P2P games is not the business model, but the fact that they lack quality to be profitable using it.

I disagree that it is an outdated model.

 

Because you believe because you are paying 50 dollars a month that you are going to get a higher quality experience, it's just not true you are just failing into the scam. it's your money though so i don't really care what you do with it. i know i won't be supporting sub based mmo's ever again.

No, I would be paying the money because I choose to. It's supply and demand. If they offer sufficient quality for which there would be demand at higher price, they would offer it at that price because it would result in higher profits which is the purpose of doing business.

You are not forced to pay that sub, you just have information that there is supply of such product at certain price and you decide whether you want to represent demand for that supply or not.

"Failing into the scam" is like saying you would pay the price because you are stupid...

 

can i really have a logically conversation with a person that is following an mmo that doesn't even exist(titan)..that proves my point.

Good job embarrassing yourself.

Replying to your post was a waste of my time and energy since based on the last sentence, you have no idea what logic, arguments or even common sense are.

Playing: Chronicle 1
Waiting for: None of the games already announced

My game concept thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/369707 (any feedback appreciated)

  CalmOceans

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1778

10/19/12 3:05:50 PM#88

F2P already die.

How long do most F2P last, usually a couple of months and they're dead. I would rather pay a monthly sub than having an MMO that is just there to cash in and start over with a new MMO every other month. Because that's how Asian MMO play now, you play them a couple of months and the servers shut down.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3064

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

10/19/12 3:08:24 PM#89


Originally posted by Istavaan
The subscription model is dead, some people don't like change but any new mmo that releases with a subscription is just asking for failure. if you were business savy at all you could see this changing climate.

if your going f2p b2p whats the point in going mmo then? be easier+safer just to make a "single player" game and charge for dlc's.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  CalmOceans

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1778

10/19/12 3:09:39 PM#90
Players won't commit to an MMO long term if there is a sub.  There is always a new MMO on the horizon or a new console or game being released.

Your thread makes no sense you know that, players are far more committed to P2P games than to F2P.

What F2P does is allow you to jump from game to game without making any investment and the inclusion of a cash shop means that people bail F2P rather fast because the higher-end stuff tends to be completely cash shop based.

Someone linked a video of F2P in China, where there are no P2P, they last a couple of months and they get shut down.

  Silok

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 741

10/19/12 3:09:45 PM#91
Originally posted by Istavaan
 

The problem is they ARE NOT offering suffienct quality to justify the subscription money.

Some yes, the old one mostly. The new one then yeah i agree with you they do not offer the gameplay (not just the quality). Now if you dont like a game, that doesnt mean it doesnt offer the quality who justify the sub, it just mean this game is not for you.

  User Deleted
10/19/12 3:12:20 PM#92
Originally posted by chryses

MMO's are going to have to go to a FTP / BTP model otherwise they won't survive.

In 2001 I started playing MMO's and I happily paid a sub due to the lack of MMO's out there.  Not to mention virtually no competition from console or PC.  (Wii, smartphones, hand held devices didn't even exist!)

In today's market there are:

- consoles

- PC single player games like Skyrim

- Hand held devices

- dozens of MMO's

- Wii

- Flash games on Face book

- Smart phones / iPad

There are multiple ways for a gamer to get a fix.  In the past 3 years I have seen a trend of MMO's being packed for 3 months at launch then dying a quick death.  Players won't commit to an MMO long term if there is a sub.  There is always a new MMO on the horizon or a new console or game being released.

An MMO needs a lot of population or by its very nature it dies badly.  FTP / BTP is the only model that will work going forward and if companies insist on sticking with a sub model, then they have literally set themselves up to fail.

My thread isn't a support thread for FTP / BTP btw.  Its about the changing gaming market and how subs are not justifiable anymore.

 

In old days you had playstation 2 instead of 3, PC single games like Morrowind instead of skyrim, MMO's like UO, EQ and AC that took time, instead of the quick levelling up to cap that we have now. What we didn't have were colleagues that had zero interest of gaming but play wii, facebook games and stuff on smart phones.

 

Its not about payment methods because eve online and wow still have a very healthy population, and rift will release their expansion shortly. Swtor and GW2 sold 2+ million copies so its not like people avoided swtor just because it was P2P.

 

The real problem is that levelling is very quick, and the themepark endgame isn't enough to keep people commited, and it simply doesn't matter what payment method you have if there is no new content to play.

  Searias

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 646

10/19/12 3:17:28 PM#93
I am fedup with all these F2P game, their cashshops and crazy restrictions, only mmos I'll play from now on will be P2P with subs.

Corsair Obsidian 900D Case
Corsair Hydro H110 Extreme Liquid Cooler
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 4.80GHz
Asus Maximus V Formula
G.SKILL TridentX Series 16GB DDR3 @ 2400MHz
Samsung 840 pro Series 256GB SSD
Western Digital RED NAS 3TB Storage Drive
Hitachi 2TB Data Storage Drive
2xASUS GTX TITAN SLi
Silverstone Strider Gold Evolution ST1200-G Modular Power Supply

  Randayn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 584

10/19/12 3:23:00 PM#94
Originally posted by DSWBeef
I disagree totally. The reason soo many sub games fail is not due to the model but how they are made. SWTOR, Wow clone, RIFT wow clone at lunch, WAR  buggy mess, VG buggy mess, AION grind, TSW no end game. The list goes on and on. Sub will work if the game is unique and not broken.

this +100

Without a sub fee, the companies that make the games must find a way to make that money up...or make the game in much less time.  That equates to a loss in quality of game or a Cash Shop that offers game-breaking items.

  Ziyadah

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/12
Posts: 13

10/19/12 3:28:56 PM#95

Box sales of MMOs in particular, typically barely cover the initial development and deployment costs.  That's half the reason they HAVE a box sale price instead of just being digital download - some attempt needs to be made to recoup the initial dev costs or you're in the red for literally the first several years of your game's lifespan.  The only way around this is using someone else's engine, with relatively generic art assets and very little custom programming.  Which is how you get the horde of terrible, terrible F2P games out there.

Ongoing maintenance costs money.

Ongoing development costs money.

Subscriptions provide the ability to forecast your revenue.  That means you can accurately plan development time.

F2P systems provide no ability to forecast revenue - additionally, they are a revenue stream that will inherently decrease over time, independent of player retention, unless you either make your game require constant expenditure in the cash shop (angers players and they leave) or constantly flood new items onto the market (only extends the timeframe for revenue stream degradation, as most players will not continue to buy the new items as they appear).

Basically, if you implement a non-cash shop required F2P game that you intend to continue to develop substantially, you are crippling your game's lifespan.  This has been proven in the industry over and over.

So, is the subscription model dead?  No.  Not at all.  It very much has its place - if you're planning on creating an MMO where the game is receiving steady new development and content, as a financial model it's the only one that you can rely on.  The move away from subscription-based models for games with ongoing development is one of the most detrimental things we've seen in regards to the quality of upcoming titles, frankly, only beaten out only by the tendency more and more development houses have shown towards removing the carrots or making them ridiculously easy to get.

That being said, F2P systems have their place too - but they typically only work successfully long-term in relatively shallow games.  World of Tanks and League of Legends are two of the poster children for this.

Attempting to apply a single financial model to an incredibly broad spread of development models is foolishness at best.

  david361107

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/08
Posts: 279

10/19/12 3:33:19 PM#96
Originally posted by chryses

MMO's are going to have to go to a FTP / BTP model otherwise they won't survive.

In 2001 I started playing MMO's and I happily paid a sub due to the lack of MMO's out there.  Not to mention virtually no competition from console or PC.  (Wii, smartphones, hand held devices didn't even exist!)

In today's market there are:

- consoles

- PC single player games like Skyrim

- Hand held devices

- dozens of MMO's

- Wii

- Flash games on Face book

- Smart phones / iPad

There are multiple ways for a gamer to get a fix.  In the past 3 years I have seen a trend of MMO's being packed for 3 months at launch then dying a quick death.  Players won't commit to an MMO long term if there is a sub.  There is always a new MMO on the horizon or a new console or game being released.

An MMO needs a lot of population or by its very nature it dies badly.  FTP / BTP is the only model that will

going forward and if companies insist on sticking with a sub model, then they have literally set themselves up to fail.

My thread isn't a support thread for FTP / BTP btw.  Its about the changing gaming market and how subs are not justifiable anymore.

 

It's strange how we have all these so called "free to play" MMO's out here now but I still play a subscription based game. I like the BTP system much better than the F2P or Cash shop options. But to me all F2P tells me is that the game has faliled and they are looking for a way to hold their heads above water.

  Randayn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 584

10/19/12 3:35:16 PM#97
I think the real reason there a lack of desire for P2P MMORPG's is because new "MMORPG's" are not MMORPG's....they are dumbed down versions with a much faster, more linear and easier progression.  Until they make more complex games that dont play like console games (that dont have a sub), even if a sub is charged, not many will pay it.  But that doesnt mean gamers wouldnt pay a sub...it just means that standards for subbed games is not up to par currently.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2484

10/19/12 3:59:10 PM#98

I dont think it is outdated so much as, its not doing what it should be doing for the vast majority of the market. There are only a few games around anymore that actually provde anything that can really be justified with a subscription such as bug fixes, adding content, providing proper customer support, etc.. Too many of them just remain stagnant for too long with major bugs going unfixed, promised features not being implemented, and no new content being added.

WAR is such a perfect example of that. The game was great in some ways, and I enjoyed the PvP immensely. But they ran the game so terribly. Not only was the performance / optimization of the game extremely bad, it also had a ton of major bugs, some of which still to this day have not been fixed. They also had severe balance issues, which again they still have not managed to resolve. On top of that it launched without 2 of the classes which were supposed to be in (even though they were nothing more than mirrors of already existing classes on opposite factions, nothing new that required extensive work), those came a couple months after. It also launched with only 2 of 6 promised racial capital cities. They spent the next like 2 years continuing to promise they were getting added, then finally admitted theyre never going to add them. Also forts, which were supposed to be a big deal, were so severely broken (sometimes causing entire servers to come crashing down) that rather than fixing them they simply removed them from the game for nearly 2 years as well.

On top of its major problems, they also only ever made 1 major content addition, the Land of the Dead, which IIRC came out somewhere between 6 months to a year after launch. No real content has been aded besides that. In fact theyve actually made the majority of the content obsolete through changes to rewards and driving the game into a Renown Rank grind forcing players to avoid any XP gain whenever possible. As it is now, they may as well simply remove nearly all of the PvE content and just have the game be RvR lakes connected together.

All this time, they still continue charging $15 a month as well as charging IIRC $20 for the RvR pack which is required to get to RR 100. Without the RvR pack and the RR 90-100 gear, youre severely gimped in endgame PvP.

WAR is just 1 example of this type of crap, but many similar types of things have been happening in other games as well. Yet all of them still continue charging full sub prices for providing broken games lacking content they were supposed to have.

If game companies werent pulling so much of this crap, many of us would have much less of a problem with the sub model. But its become the norm for the indursty to provide inferior games and still charge full price.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2644

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

10/19/12 4:07:57 PM#99

I disagree. There method that seems best, at least outside straight P2P is actually Freemium which offers a sub option with all the trimmings. Right now that has shown to be one of the best models. Going straight F2P means if you really want to play the game, your going to be paying a lot more for the same experience then a monthly subscription, and B2P often times will do the very same, likely more considering the model often involves actively buying expansions, with the core game itself less likely to ever drop in price to attract new players all to much.

 

The sub model disapearing would mean anyone really into an MMo would end up paying more for a game to have even a chance of staying in the loop. As nice as it would be to have F2P offering only cosmetics as their only source of income, they would quickly drain their bank accounts trying to support an MMO like that. Freemium at least give an option for people who like the game to pay for it without needing to shell out rediculous amounts of cash for the same experience.

  VikingGamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1183

The strong are sometimes wrong but the weak are never free.

10/19/12 4:16:09 PM#100

You know what I have noticed in games that make the switch to F2P? I have noticed that most of the time, perhaps not always but most of the time they simply stop giving you those little freebie things during holiday events. Lineage 2 used to do this all the time, give you all sorts of odds and ends during events but when they went f2p the events became, "buy a "box 'o crap" for 50% off. Basically you can get your holiday goodies or at least most of them by buying them. Weeeee.

Sorry I would still rather pay a simple $10 a month, (multi month subber) and simply get some extras at holiday times rather than getting nickled and dimed. Sure, the stuff is usually junk and i don't need it either way but the fact is you are going to pay in some manner or another if you play online games. I prefer to pay a predictable amount each month.

sub models will never disappear. Why? because some of us simply prefer them and someone will always be willing to provide the service that will fill that market need.

The Law of Conservation of Stupidity:
For every Fan there will be an equally vocal Troll with the opposite opinion.

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search