Trending Games | Marvel Heroes | Elder Scrolls Online | ArcheAge | Star Wars: The Old Republic

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,922,084 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,315,118
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Infestation: Survivor Stories

Infestation: Survivor Stories 

General Discussion  » War Z Community Rant - Like it or Lump it

2 Pages 1 2 » Search
21 posts found
  quickshotz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/11
Posts: 217

 
OP  10/18/12 5:06:37 AM#1

So this is about a 20min discussion/rant about the War Z community (not so much the game itself). Everything I talk about here can be found in the public forum sections and has no actual War Z footage (so this does not break the nda!). Some will agree some wont, that cool bro. Thats one of the awesome things about this world we live on, everyone has a different view of things, so keep that i mind kiddos. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkHOwHAxVE0  <--- Watch or why are you here?

 

I would love to have a debate/discussion about some of the subjects I bring up (key words debate/discussion NOT a argument). Very interested in your thoughts on it all. Im just so worried the WarZ devs are going to listen to the flood of complaints (not even bugs, just complaints) coming in and take them as what the community wants, THEY ARNT! Most (not all) of the intelligent people are not even bothering to post as they dont have the time for the flame war that is bound to come of it. 

 

NEVER base a games design around the low tier of players, it will never work. As I said in my video could you imagine dota/lol/sc2 (whatever competitive game you watch) if they were based off the low tier lol, it would be horrid. (simple example. sc2 shortly after release: 4 gate needs MAJOR nerf, omgz the 4 gate is sooo OPPPPP). Then what happened? The competitive pros slowly (it did take awhile lol) learn ways around 4 gates and how to stop them and got to a point (before nerf) where a 4 gate wasnt even a good viable option anymore in competitive play. Things take time, and things need to be examined by the best before you can say theres something wrong. MANY games went the way of designing there games based on the lower tier of players and where are they now???? Exactly (im sure there are a few good/fun lower tier based games but thats not the point. We are shooting for the top not the bottom)

 

I myself have fallen into the "rage mode" and started unloading on some of the idiots yesterday. Just relax and let yourself cool down before responding to the idiots or better yet, dont respond at all. As for my "rude" comment I made yesterday sorry, I guess. I stand by what I said but I really should have just bit my lip and said nothing. But yea. Enjoy the video and leave your thoughts below guys. Also as I said remember, everyone's going to have a different view. Dont get mad at them for it K? :o:o:o:o:o:o

**Added because its a good argument on the subject*** Games should reward getting better. Not reward playing like crap over and over and over. People do the same thing and fail multiple times. But instead of trying something new they say its broken and cry about it till "there" way works. getting better should be a goal of players AND game design. Lazy people shouldnt be catered to. I agree you can have a lot of fun if you are bad at something.. Should the rules of soccer or football be changed so you can be better at it? The obv answer is no. So should a game be made easier just because a lot of people are bad at it? no

I expect more dislikes on the video then likes (as due to my whole "most gamers are bad" theory) Meh. My ego is so hurt! :D lolz

 

 

  SlickShoes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1040

10/18/12 5:27:40 AM#2

I haven't watched the video yet but your condescending tone and putting yourself on a pedestal is not really going to endear you to people. 

You have basically already said " I am a good gamer, you are not, you are wrong, I am correct ".

Most people that play football (soccer) are "terrible" at it. I play football every week but I am never going to make it pro.

You do have to realise that not everyone that enjoys doing something enjoys it because they are great at it.

I understand where you are coming from with regard to forum whiners though, but companies must realise that those people on the forums whining are a tiny percentage of the player base of any game. 

Making a game is very difficult and takes years, you want it to be as balanced as possible, you don't want to cater to the top 1% or the bottom 1% you want to hit some sort of middle ground as that is where most people will be skill wise.

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

10/18/12 5:31:09 AM#3

-Alright. I want my 20 fucking mins back.

I listened and for the most part agree with you (in a general sense- I have never played this game).

Heres the thing. People are paying to alpha test this. Obviously the game needs tweaked and adjusted but these players (for the most part) ane not there to test and give valid feedback, but rather are people who payed to "play before everyone else". The communtiy therefore is probably going to be totally counterproductive to alpha/beta testing.

-I disagree with several things you said on principal (regarding the "zombie apocolypse" and how people would begin randomly killing- I think its far more complex than that) but overall...

EDIT: To the post above. Yeah his attitude kind of sucked but its hard to be not condescending and yet truthful about certain facts. Games generally shoot towards the "lowest common denomanater" and there are far more on the average to low spectrum (in anything at all) than at the top end. I would probably suck at a game like this (First person Shooter type) since I am low skilled in these games. I still would be able to have fun with the realization that I am not highly skilled. It isnt offensive... There are games I am very skilled in.

 

 

  quickshotz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/11
Posts: 217

 
OP  10/18/12 5:45:09 AM#4
Originally posted by SlickShoes

I haven't watched the video yet but your condescending tone and putting yourself on a pedestal is not really going to endear you to people. 

You have basically already said " I am a good gamer, you are not, you are wrong, I am correct ".

Most people that play football (soccer) are "terrible" at it. I play football every week but I am never going to make it pro.

You do have to realise that not everyone that enjoys doing something enjoys it because they are great at it.

I understand where you are coming from with regard to forum whiners though, but companies must realise that those people on the forums whining are a tiny percentage of the player base of any game. 

Making a game is very difficult and takes years, you want it to be as balanced as possible, you don't want to cater to the top 1% or the bottom 1% you want to hit some sort of middle ground as that is where most people will be skill wise.

But as a player do you want "more players" or a "better" game? Eve is a good example of this. They tuned the game to id say about the top 20%. The bottom 80% complaiend and bitched but that didnt matter. The game thrived and is considered one of the best most well balanced and mature communitys out there. You also find a lot more intellegent people in eve due to this.

 

When games start thinking about "more players" and less about a skilled challenging game it always goes downhil. Simple examples: Cod,WoW,Battlefield. All great games that over time and new released started focusing more on getting players in the game then making the game itself good, and quality wise have suffered for that. Ow but damn this game has x million players, it must be good <--- bad logic, its normally the opisit.

 

Games should reward getting better. Not reward playing like crap over and over and over. People do the same thing and fail multiple times. But instead of trying something new they say its broken and cry about it till "there" way works. getting better should be a goal of players AND game design. Lazy people shouldnt be catered to. I agree you can have a lot of fun if you are bad at something.. But lets use your own example. should the rules of soccer be changed so you can be better at it? The obv answer is no. So should a game be made easier just because a lot of people are bad at it? no

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

10/18/12 5:57:13 AM#5
Originally posted by quickshotz
Originally posted by SlickShoes

I haven't watched the video yet but your condescending tone and putting yourself on a pedestal is not really going to endear you to people. 

You have basically already said " I am a good gamer, you are not, you are wrong, I am correct ".

Most people that play football (soccer) are "terrible" at it. I play football every week but I am never going to make it pro.

You do have to realise that not everyone that enjoys doing something enjoys it because they are great at it.

I understand where you are coming from with regard to forum whiners though, but companies must realise that those people on the forums whining are a tiny percentage of the player base of any game. 

Making a game is very difficult and takes years, you want it to be as balanced as possible, you don't want to cater to the top 1% or the bottom 1% you want to hit some sort of middle ground as that is where most people will be skill wise.

But as a player do you want "more players" or a "better" game? Eve is a good example of this. They tuned the game to id say about the top 20%. The bottom 80% complaiend and bitched but that didnt matter. The game thrived and is considered one of the best most well balanced and mature communitys out there. You also find a lot more intellegent people in eve due to this.

 

When games start thinking about "more players" and less about a skilled challenging game it always goes downhil. Simple examples: Cod,WoW,Battlefield. All great games that over time and new released started focusing more on getting players in the game then making the game itself good, and quality wise have suffered for that. Ow but damn this game has x million players, it must be good <--- bad logic, its normally the opisit.

 

Games should reward getting better. Not reward playing like crap over and over and over. People do the same thing and fail multiple times. But instead of trying something new they say its broken and cry about it till "there" way works. Betting better should be a goal of players AND game design. Lazy people shouldnt be catered to. I agree you can have a lot of fun if you are bad at something.. But lets use your own example. should the rules of soccer be changed so you can be better at it? The obv answer is no. So should a game be made easier just because a lot of people are bad at it? no

Keep in mind though, that this is a balancing act which could really go both ways. And at some point (the tipping point) population dwindles and then snowballs to nothing.

All Wolves and no Sheep will equal very bored wolves. In a game like this you are going to attract a ton of assholes and griefers to begin with. Couple this with harsh death penalty and a bottomheavy (shkillwise) playerbase. Sure, they will occasionally score a nice shot or make a good kill but overall they will be hunted and killed- Fodder.

So the game has to find  a way to accomodate (or lose) those people in the long run. That gets into more of theory behind what could work without dumbing down the game.

-But never underestimate the importance of the unwashed masses. Without that foundation the whole structure crumbles.

  SlickShoes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1040

10/18/12 5:57:16 AM#6
Originally posted by quickshotz
Originally posted by SlickShoes

I haven't watched the video yet but your condescending tone and putting yourself on a pedestal is not really going to endear you to people. 

You have basically already said " I am a good gamer, you are not, you are wrong, I am correct ".

Most people that play football (soccer) are "terrible" at it. I play football every week but I am never going to make it pro.

You do have to realise that not everyone that enjoys doing something enjoys it because they are great at it.

I understand where you are coming from with regard to forum whiners though, but companies must realise that those people on the forums whining are a tiny percentage of the player base of any game. 

Making a game is very difficult and takes years, you want it to be as balanced as possible, you don't want to cater to the top 1% or the bottom 1% you want to hit some sort of middle ground as that is where most people will be skill wise.

But as a player do you want "more players" or a "better" game? Eve is a good example of this. They tuned the game to id say about the top 20%. The bottom 80% complaiend and bitched but that didnt matter. The game thrived and is considered one of the best most well balanced and mature communitys out there. You also find a lot more intellegent people in eve due to this.

 

When games start thinking about "more players" and less about a skilled challenging game it always goes downhil. Simple examples: Cod,WoW,Battlefield. All great games that over time and new released started focusing more on getting players in the game then making the game itself good, and quality wise have suffered for that. Ow but damn this game has x million players, it must be good <--- bad logic, its normally the opisit.

I disagree, CoD has never been great, WoW has never been that great either, Battlefield I have never played so i'll sit that one out. 

EVE is a game that I have never bothered to get in to, despite trying a few times, because of the sheer volume of stuff to learn. If I was still at Uni and didnt work full time I would probably love it, equally I am obvisouly less skilled at EVE than you but I don't spend any time on there forums telling them to change the game. I highly doubt that 80% of the playerbase of EVE complained about anything.

Every game has intelligent people, I play WoW with a Doctor and a research scientist, are they dumb because they play a game like WoW in there spare time? Intelligence is not based on what games you fill up your free time with. I used to play with a pharmacist that was the biggest general chat troll the world has ever seen, then you have another guy who didn't even graduate high school but spends his time in game theorycrafting and raid leading on progression raids.

I never said that more players = good game, you just brought that one up yourself.

I have already stated in other threads here that if DayZ had 50 players I would still play it, if the game has enough players to function then it's still worth playing. I know lots of people hate that game and hate any game with permadeath in it or any form of permadeath.

  SlickShoes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1040

10/18/12 5:58:59 AM#7
Originally posted by quickshotz
Originally posted by SlickShoes

I haven't watched the video yet but your condescending tone and putting yourself on a pedestal is not really going to endear you to people. 

You have basically already said " I am a good gamer, you are not, you are wrong, I am correct ".

Most people that play football (soccer) are "terrible" at it. I play football every week but I am never going to make it pro.

You do have to realise that not everyone that enjoys doing something enjoys it because they are great at it.

I understand where you are coming from with regard to forum whiners though, but companies must realise that those people on the forums whining are a tiny percentage of the player base of any game. 

Making a game is very difficult and takes years, you want it to be as balanced as possible, you don't want to cater to the top 1% or the bottom 1% you want to hit some sort of middle ground as that is where most people will be skill wise.

But as a player do you want "more players" or a "better" game? Eve is a good example of this. They tuned the game to id say about the top 20%. The bottom 80% complaiend and bitched but that didnt matter. The game thrived and is considered one of the best most well balanced and mature communitys out there. You also find a lot more intellegent people in eve due to this.

 

When games start thinking about "more players" and less about a skilled challenging game it always goes downhil. Simple examples: Cod,WoW,Battlefield. All great games that over time and new released started focusing more on getting players in the game then making the game itself good, and quality wise have suffered for that. Ow but damn this game has x million players, it must be good <--- bad logic, its normally the opisit.

 

Games should reward getting better. Not reward playing like crap over and over and over. People do the same thing and fail multiple times. But instead of trying something new they say its broken and cry about it till "there" way works. getting better should be a goal of players AND game design. Lazy people shouldnt be catered to. I agree you can have a lot of fun if you are bad at something.. But lets use your own example. should the rules of soccer be changed so you can be better at it? The obv answer is no. So should a game be made easier just because a lot of people are bad at it? no

You didn't understand what I said, I agree with you that game devs should not listen to forum whiners for game balance, hardcore pro player whiners or noob idiot whiners, neither.

  quickshotz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/11
Posts: 217

 
OP  10/18/12 6:05:33 AM#8

Im not saying more people is bad. Im saying we dont need as much as people think. Eve survives with last I checked about 400k-500k players in a world of games with 1-10 million players. Just because your population is lower doesnt make it a bad game nor does it nessicarly effect gameplay.

 

You can be bad, thats not the problem. Its the bad players who dont want to get better! If your willing to learn and adapt then your really not a bad player, your just new and learning the game. Im talking about the winners that want the game catered to them and refuse to learn to play better

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

10/18/12 6:12:36 AM#9
Originally posted by quickshotz

Im not saying more people is bad. Im saying we dont need as much as people think. Eve survives with last I checked about 400k-500k players in a world of games with 1-10 million players. Just because your population is lower doesnt make it a bad game nor does it nessicarly effect gameplay.

 

You can be bad, thats not the problem. Its the bad players who dont want to get better! If your willing to learn and adapt then your really not a bad player, your just new and learning the game. Im talking about the winners that want the game catered to them and refuse to learn to play better

But eve subsides because it isnt combat centric. There is so much to keep a player of a variety of playstyles in thhe World from crafting and Politics to mercantile and banking to PVP and actual wars between corporations.

Again, I have not played this but my impression is that this is basic FPS persistent universe game with zombies- I mean, thats a very cool thing- VERY cool. But does it have the depth of a game like Eve (or is that in the plans?) because if NOT you will need a much larger player base to make this work and be populated enough down the road when the "newness" wears off. If you basicly log in, gather loot, survive and kill its going to get old quick for those who are not very skilled at the FPS combat- This, in turn would really negativly impact this type of game far mopre than a game like Eve.

  quickshotz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/11
Posts: 217

 
OP  10/18/12 6:23:16 AM#10
Originally posted by SaintPhilip
Originally posted by quickshotz

Im not saying more people is bad. Im saying we dont need as much as people think. Eve survives with last I checked about 400k-500k players in a world of games with 1-10 million players. Just because your population is lower doesnt make it a bad game nor does it nessicarly effect gameplay.

 

You can be bad, thats not the problem. Its the bad players who dont want to get better! If your willing to learn and adapt then your really not a bad player, your just new and learning the game. Im talking about the winners that want the game catered to them and refuse to learn to play better

But eve subsides because it isnt combat centric. There is so much to keep a player of a variety of playstyles in thhe World from crafting and Politics to mercantile and banking to PVP and actual wars between corporations.

Again, I have not played this but my impression is that this is basic FPS persistent universe game with zombies- I mean, thats a very cool thing- VERY cool. But does it have the depth of a game like Eve (or is that in the plans?) because if NOT you will need a much larger player base to make this work and be populated enough down the road when the "newness" wears off. If you basicly log in, gather loot, survive and kill its going to get old quick for those who are not very skilled at the FPS combat- This, in turn would really negativly impact this type of game far mopre than a game like Eve.

So lets bring that depth into the game instead of fighting for players off the bat. And catering to the "average" person. Depth first please

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

10/18/12 5:35:26 PM#11
Originally posted by quickshotz
Originally posted by SaintPhilip
Originally posted by quickshotz

Im not saying more people is bad. Im saying we dont need as much as people think. Eve survives with last I checked about 400k-500k players in a world of games with 1-10 million players. Just because your population is lower doesnt make it a bad game nor does it nessicarly effect gameplay.

 

You can be bad, thats not the problem. Its the bad players who dont want to get better! If your willing to learn and adapt then your really not a bad player, your just new and learning the game. Im talking about the winners that want the game catered to them and refuse to learn to play better

But eve subsides because it isnt combat centric. There is so much to keep a player of a variety of playstyles in thhe World from crafting and Politics to mercantile and banking to PVP and actual wars between corporations.

Again, I have not played this but my impression is that this is basic FPS persistent universe game with zombies- I mean, thats a very cool thing- VERY cool. But does it have the depth of a game like Eve (or is that in the plans?) because if NOT you will need a much larger player base to make this work and be populated enough down the road when the "newness" wears off. If you basicly log in, gather loot, survive and kill its going to get old quick for those who are not very skilled at the FPS combat- This, in turn would really negativly impact this type of game far mopre than a game like Eve.

So lets bring that depth into the game instead of fighting for players off the bat. And catering to the "average" person. Depth first please

I agree and it would be awesome if some deep crafting/economic/non combat tools were added- But absent of that actually happening there has to be give and take between a "Hardcore" attitude and the "masses".

-I again state that I have not played this game so everything I am stating is pure conjecture.

Assuming this is very harcore and the game "owned" by a few elites and PKers- With the death = lockout (unless you pay) and limited toons, this game will sink fastert han the Titanic unless something is added for those "masses" to do except be cannon fodder.

-Not listening to the masses is true- But the same must  be said of the (much smaller base of) elite players. Too many games which are "Hardcore" will not give an inch to accomodate other playstyles or give other player types som ething to do- and they usually have dead servers quite quickly.

  BigCountry

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 481

10/19/12 11:09:34 AM#12

Day 4 of public Alpha.
- over 100,000 active accounts
- over 86,000 playing DAILY
- over 22,000 playing at any given second ( CCU )

 

I am enjoying this game tremendously atm.

 

Can't get enough of these games. Sandbox 4tw :D

 

Definitely nice to have some competition for Dean and DayZ. 2 games is always better than 1. :D

BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

10/19/12 11:15:46 AM#13
Originally posted by BigCountry

Day 4 of public Alpha.
- over 100,000 active accounts
- over 86,000 playing DAILY
- over 22,000 playing at any given second ( CCU )

 

I am enjoying this game tremendously atm.

 

Can't get enough of these games. Sandbox 4tw :D

 

Definitely nice to have some competition for Dean and DayZ. 2 games is always better than 1. :D

Damn...They really have hit those numbers????

And "sandbox" gameplay? Can you share or still under NDA? I wasnt rwally aware this was a sandbox but that certainly peaks my interest...

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2692

10/19/12 11:52:04 AM#14

Havent played it myself yet, but I will say i completely agree with the OP in regards to rewarding being bad, etc.

One of you mentioned playing football / soccer and not being very good. But does that stop you from having fun? You say you play, so I would assume youre still enjoying it and didnt run off the field and "ragequit" because youre not the best and probably got your ass kicked a few times. Youre not getting paid to do it I assume, and yeah there are of course the benefits to playing like staying in shape, but you could be doing something else to stay in shape. Arent you playing because you enjoy it?

But when it comes to games, not just MMOs, the masses have this mindset of "if I dont instantly get reward, even if i sucked, this game is no fun".

I just dont get that mindset at all. I find a challenge, and then being rewarded for overcoming it, a hell of a lot more fun than going through things in easy mode and getting the same useless token rewards as everyone else because it makes them feel good about themselves.

Maybe part of my mindset comes from FPS, which I was into before I got big into MMOs. I wasnt rewarded with crap after every round if I was a poor player. I had to practice and learn the game and how to outsmart my opponents. My reward was seeing my name moving up the rankings lists until I took over the #1 spots in several games. I took over the #1 spot in Team Survival Kills / #2 in the entire game in Rainbow SIx with approx 38000 kills (when I left, I had the spots before that) and in GR2 #1 overall kills with approx 80k kills, #1 rank in 2/3 modes, and #1 kills in all modes within a few months of starting each game, not because I sucked and was being handed easy mode rewards constantly. I didnt need that crap to tell me I was getting better. I knew I was getting better by my consistently winning even while running intentionally lopsided teams in the enemy's favor, and by moving up those leaderboards.

Now granted, a lot of games dont have good leaderboards like that, but the principle is the same. I dont encounter something difficult and go whining to the devs that something is unfair and they need to nerf it or Im going to quit, etc. I keep trying it over and over again using various methods until I figure out how to get around that obstacle. Even if the rewards arent worth the time & effort, I still find myself going out of my way to purposely take on things that people claim are difficult, just so I can say I did it.

The giant in Nageling or whatever that village is in GW2 for example. I always so people complaining about him being so hard and how he is OP and its stupid and not worth doing, he neds to be nerfed, whine after endless whine. So when I had the chance one day running through there and nobody else was around I took him on solo. It was a bitch, and took me about 15-20 minutes to finally bring him down, but I did it. I got the same crappy gold and xp rewards as I would have gotten if there had been 20 people there with me taking him down, but that didnt matter to me.

If War Z is the type of gae that rewards players for getting better, not for continuing to be lazy and learn from their mistakes, I really hope they stick to it and let the crybabies who cant stand any sort of challenge go elsewhere.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2692

10/19/12 12:09:31 PM#15
Originally posted by SaintPhilip
Originally posted by BigCountry

Day 4 of public Alpha.
- over 100,000 active accounts
- over 86,000 playing DAILY
- over 22,000 playing at any given second ( CCU )

 

I am enjoying this game tremendously atm.

 

Can't get enough of these games. Sandbox 4tw :D

 

Definitely nice to have some competition for Dean and DayZ. 2 games is always better than 1. :D

Damn...They really have hit those numbers????

And "sandbox" gameplay? Can you share or still under NDA? I wasnt rwally aware this was a sandbox but that certainly peaks my interest...

Its not an actual sandbox in the true sense of the word, like with any sort of world building, etc. Its just sandboxy in that you can kind of go where you want, do what you want, as long as you can handle it. Its kind of like Darkfall. Youre free to go anywhere, use any equipment, etc. But you cant actually build houses or otherwise impact the world like you can in a real sandbox.

  oreal52

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/08
Posts: 77

10/19/12 12:17:12 PM#16

For me WARZ was far the worst game of 2012.

Seriosly guys, stay away from this game.

IF you want to buy it,watch an actual ingame video,check the list of bugs

and be prepared for payin' for something ( i can't call it a game ) that you will

uninstall after 10 minutes.

  phantomghost

Elite Member

Joined: 11/05/11
Posts: 656

"Kill me, my man kills you, that's how you lose."

10/19/12 12:23:01 PM#17

Now that the game is in more of a relatively playable state it is kind of fun.  I can enjoy 30minutes to an hour here and there. 

 

I stock piled food/water/medical supplied.  I also found many melee weapons, found a few guns and ammo. 

 

I started off thinking I will not kill players.. that quickly changed.  Because you cannot tell the name of the person who tyou are standing by, without them talking and doing some action like jumping to say they are friendly.  You really have to expect everyone to attempt to kill you.  Because of this I created 3 characters that I strictly kill anything and everything. 

 

The gameplay has made it obvious it is a kill or be killed world.

 

With that said... you understand that you can enjoy the game for a good bit.  It is definitely not a game I would play hours on end nor everyday... I definitely won't think about playing it while I am not playing it either.

"I see they watchin' me and takin' notes on my moves, Run up on me it's all I want I ain't got nothin' to lose."

  BigCountry

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 481

10/19/12 1:59:22 PM#18
Originally posted by kaiser3282
But you cant actually build houses or otherwise impact the world like you can in a real sandbox.

 

not yet. its coming. :D gonna be sorta like mindcraft. the "strongholds" will be instanced but still will be a lot of fun.

 

to anyone intersted in the game u can get a lot of info here

http://www.warzwiki.com/The_War_Z_Wiki

 

also,


"Less than 24 hours left to buy The War Z at deeply discounted prices. Prices will go up on October 20th."

 

so dont beat around the bush if your wanting to get in on this one cheap. like dayz, price will go up and stay there. supply and demand curve is simply too good.

BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19520

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/19/12 2:05:09 PM#19
Originally posted by SlickShoes

I haven't watched the video yet but your condescending tone and putting yourself on a pedestal is not really going to endear you to people. 

You have basically already said " I am a good gamer, you are not, you are wrong, I am correct ".

Most people that play football (soccer) are "terrible" at it. I play football every week but I am never going to make it pro.

You do have to realise that not everyone that enjoys doing something enjoys it because they are great at it.

I understand where you are coming from with regard to forum whiners though, but companies must realise that those people on the forums whining are a tiny percentage of the player base of any game. 

Making a game is very difficult and takes years, you want it to be as balanced as possible, you don't want to cater to the top 1% or the bottom 1% you want to hit some sort of middle ground as that is where most people will be skill wise.

Bingo, there's a reason certain recreational activities such as golf or bowling have handicap systems in place, it's done to try and make the game a little more fair to those who are less skilled (and always will be less skilled) and keep they happy enough to keep playing/paying.

Professional sports make no such allowances, but then again, MMO's aren't pro sports so should tailor their design to the more recreational playerbase, even if it removes some of the challenge for the very skilled.

Wouldn't it be great if the more you won in PVP the weaker your character got?  That would be fair now I think......

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  LostHawk

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/05/03
Posts: 53

10/19/12 2:20:06 PM#20
*ignore* got wrong information
2 Pages 1 2 » Search