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10/18/12 7:54:50 PM#61
Originally posted by Gdemami You are not free to go anywhere in LotRO. It is instanced, zoned, and locked out based on what quests you have. You cannot use every item and armor in LotRO. You cannot go out fishing/treasure hunting in LotRO, as it has no boats. You can fish on the shore, but that's about it. You cannot create your own quests in LotRO. You cannot attack anyone you want in LotRO. You cannot use any skill you want in LotRO.
In LotRO you have a linear class, a linear quest progression, a linear zone progression, a linear raid progression, the game has very hard coded rules on what you can do and when you can do them.
Darkfall is not the deepest sandbox, but it is indeed a sandbox. |
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10/18/12 8:01:58 PM#62
You cant build sandcastles in it, so it's a sandlessbox :P
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10/18/12 8:14:03 PM#63
Originally posted by Kuinn i see what you did there
Darkfall is my defenition of a real sandbox. can't really explain why... but i defenatly think its the best FFA pvp full loot game out there, the sheer feeling you get while playing the game as opposed to other liner theme park mmos really makes you understand that nothing is safe, and that good people is what my idea of sandbox is all about. |
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10/18/12 10:57:00 PM#64
Originally posted by DarthRaiden I'm confused, Darthraiden. First, weren't you one of DF's biggest supporters for a very long time? Strange to see you on the other side of the fence all of a sudden. Second, how can you quote that entire interview excerpt you include and then still come out saying "See? They're making it more themepark like"? Did you even read the entire thing you quoted, or are you only focusing on the parts that support your argument? Are you just ignoring it? That's a serious question, because I can't fathom how you take all they describe and still get "more themepark" from it. Are you being sarcastic and I'm just totally missing it? As for making the world smaller being a bad thing... I think it's a good thing. You could reduce Agon's overall size by 1/3 and it would still be a massive world with tons to explore. The thing is, in my opinion, DF's landmass was one of its problems in current DF because the distances are so great that it really separates people. A MMORPG that relies on community interaction (be it for PvP or for trade, or what-have-you) really benefits from people being able to meet up and do things without having to first travel for up to an hour or more. There's a point where "tons of landmass to explore" becomes a hindrance rather than a benefit. If DF had managed to bring in tons of players where every area was healthily populated, then it wouldn't have been so bad. But that wasn't the case. You could run for an hour in that game and not see another soul. |
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10/18/12 11:33:07 PM#65
Originally posted by MMOExposed Your argument that "themeparks do that as well" is a complete joke. Guess what: Minecraft now has experience and WoW no longer has Weapon skill levels
Hmm..still not sure if you are trolling or not |
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10/18/12 11:46:35 PM#66
No player made content? What about the tournaments, the treasure hunts, the player made quests, the sieges and diplomacy, the spying, the stealing, hell, the fun hulk races? Sieges themselves are all player generated content. You're given the freedom to build and attack cities, and players use this. Just like any sandbox. |
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10/19/12 3:32:06 AM#67
It is only done differently but that does not make Darkfall a sandbox.
The only true difference is that Darkfall has an open world and skill system. Besides that, it is just a PVP arena with persistent world. |
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10/19/12 4:14:55 AM#68
@ Gdemami
How would you define a sandbox? |
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10/19/12 4:19:03 AM#69
Originally posted by Gdemami you're obviously confused; what you call simply features are some of the fundamental aspects of 'sandboxes'. LoTRO is not a sandbox by any stretch of the definition. it's a themepark, and a boring one at that. http://kck.st/Xo38HT |
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10/19/12 4:22:04 AM#70
Originally posted by karmath The main feature of a sandbox is player created content. DF surely do have some of that but it is rather limited. If Skyrim is a typical sandbox as some people here say then yes it is. If you see Minecraft as the typical sandbox then it isnt. The question is really how much player created content a game needs to have to be a sandbox? If FFA PvP would be sandboxy then AoC would be a sandbox as well. And you could easily add full loot to that game as well, still wouldnt make it a sandbox. And we seen none instanced themeparks as well, Lineage is a good and pretty large example. A certain percentage player created content is the only unique thing, question is just how much it needs. AoC have after all its guildcities, but they are not enough. Vanguard go a step further and is really not that far from DF even if it have a lot more quests. |
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10/19/12 4:34:20 AM#71
Darkfall is what i refer to as a limited sandbox, not a full sandbox. Its like being given a bag of sand to do a few things with, rather than an entire sandbox. As far as character goes, yes that is very sandbox. You can build up any skill of your choosing, wear any types of armor and weapons with no restrictions, etc. As far as "content" such as where you go and what you do, that is pretty much all up to you (as long as you can handle the challenge of the tougher mobs, but it is not limited by level, mainly player skill). Same with things like sieges. That all revolves around the players, ad they occur when players dictate, not when a game dictates. But the world itself is not sandbox. You have no actual impact on the world itself. Bases / holdings are static and predetermined. You cannot come up with this really cool idea for a base and then design & build it your way. It is all predetermined by the devs what you can build and where, and it basically consists of having the resources and choosing to build it, but not where and how. Same goes for housing. You cannot build a house. You buy an already existant house. You also dont impact other aspects of the world such as chopping down trees, terraforming etc. Nothing you do in the game actually has an effect on the world itself. You can choose how to play through what exists, but you in no way alter what exists. |
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10/19/12 4:40:43 AM#72
Darkfall 1 barely had any sand in the box. I don't see what DF 2.0 is offering as adding much more sand. It more about the Clan warefare and control of land having much less down time system, but like DF1 AV has no proper meains to combat cheating. Cheating will ruin the balance of this game just as it did in DF 1.0. The only way DF 1.0 had a handle on cheaters is when the population fell so low it hard not to notice anybody doing it.
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10/19/12 4:41:47 AM#73
It was always a sandbox game, just didnt have that many sandbox features... it was not a themepark thats for sure lol.. You could do what you want, your clan could build up a city, you could own a house and much more.. sure those cities and houses where fixed but still they are sandbox features. Could have been done better yes but thats besides the point.
DF:UW will be more of the same but im happy with that.. |
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10/19/12 4:45:03 AM#74
"Darkfall is just the same as LOTRO or WOW". "Darkfall is a pvp arena game".
Why are people even bothering to respond to this horse sht? As Unholy Wars nears release and over the early part of it's life cycle, we are going to see more and more numbnuts coming out of the woodwork trying to troll the place out.
Just ignore them or respond in kind. |
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10/19/12 4:57:46 AM#75
Definition would be probably difficult to put together but it can be described as clockwork.
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10/19/12 5:01:16 AM#76
Originally posted by Gdemami You said exactly nothing with that. "Not clockwork" and "missing a fundamental layer" but not naming it, still mentioning DF in the same token as LOTRO. Sure seems like strong arguments there. |
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10/19/12 5:09:08 AM#77
Just because you do not understand something does not mean it makes no sense or it is empty words only... |
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10/19/12 5:15:24 AM#78
Originally posted by Gdemami No the lack of any actual noteworthy content at all is what made it empty words.
Or is "oh it's missing something" meant to be taken as a valid, well thought out justification as to why you think DF is not a sandbox?
I happen to believe the game is a clearly a sandbox, just one with a limited amount of sand, one which doesn't match the "content" of games such as EVE and (especially) UO. But it is a sandbox all the same.
Even though I think that way I could probably offer a better "it's not a sandbox" argument than saying "er it's like lotro ain't it guvnor and they are both missing stuffz". |
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10/19/12 5:25:36 AM#79
...your lack of understanding does not make it so. |
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10/19/12 5:33:49 AM#80
Originally posted by Gdemami You could have come back and pointed out the "content". You could have listed all this clear "noteworthy content" which I have either missed or did not understand.
But no, "you just don't understandz!!!!!!" is meant to be good enough is it?.
Well actually I understand perfectly well. I understand you have come up with a ludicrous reason (although I am loathe to call it that) in "it's missing something..." to try and back up your initial ludicrous premise that DF is like LOTRO and is not a sandbox.
Tell you what "Darkfall is clockwork, it just fundamentally has something..." there you go, now theres a solid case for it being a sandbox right, right? |
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