Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan
 

One could think that your 15$ are the equivalent of the total GNP of the USA the way you would disect the investors and projects.

Its called disposable income for a reason.

Sorry, I don't consider any of my money "disposable".

I expect a return on every one of my dollars. Whether it be a product or service, I will recieve something for my cash.

I don't give money for "maybes" and 'promises" and "feature lists".

Will I give to charity? Of course. I've given to food banks, shelters, etc.

"Game developers" are not a recognized charity nor am I willing to donate to them as such.

Originally posted by Betaguy
Creative people use kickstarter for big free monies.... just saying.

I guess people fear what they don't understand...

They cannot legally get "free monies". Kickstarter has a lot of lawyers.

Its like we're back in the days when everyone was afraid to buy stuff with their credit card online... dark ages here again.

But no, keep on ignoring the fact that dozens of products have been funded and produced via Kickstarter.

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan
 

One could think that your 15$ are the equivalent of the total GNP of the USA the way you would disect the investors and projects.

Its called disposable income for a reason.

Sorry, I don't consider any of my money "disposable".

I expect a return on every one of my dollars. Whether it be a product or service, I will recieve something for my cash.

I don't give money for "maybes" and 'promises" and "feature lists".

Will I give to charity? Of course. I've given to food banks, shelters, etc.

"Game developers" are not a recognized charity nor am I willing to donate to them as such.

We get it. You are broke and also do not understant the concept of Venture Capital. It isn't about charity. It is about risk taking in order to obtain potential rewards at the most early beginnings of a project. With investing this means money. With a kickstart program it means some bonuses included with your pledge and the potential of a game being developed you may very well be interested in.

It is risk. Nobody here would suggest otherwise. It is obvious you don't get it. Even if you did and are not interested then why even post here? You have nothing to offer ... leave.

For those interested in the game or even just development process (like me but I also love the ideas behind the game) please read all of the many blogs @ http://www.eldergame.com/ . There is a facebook worth looking over to see why others like the game concept @ http://www.facebook.com/GorgonMMO . I have also requested that Mmorpg.com creates general forum for the game if only to discuss ideas in general. Honestly there is more info about this potential game available than most other higher profile kickstarters recently. I dare anyone to show any of the major mmo developers out there listing anything close to the many original ideas offered through the blogs (along with interesting general insights into mmo concepts and development by these professional developers .. well mostly Eric).

Obiously the game is the definition of an indie-project but even a small number of fans can support it simply through discussion if not a little money.

Originally posted by Tamanous

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan
 

One could think that your 15$ are the equivalent of the total GNP of the USA the way you would disect the investors and projects.

Its called disposable income for a reason.

Sorry, I don't consider any of my money "disposable".

I expect a return on every one of my dollars. Whether it be a product or service, I will recieve something for my cash.

I don't give money for "maybes" and 'promises" and "feature lists".

Will I give to charity? Of course. I've given to food banks, shelters, etc.

"Game developers" are not a recognized charity nor am I willing to donate to them as such.

We get it. You are broke and also do not understant the concept of Venture Capital. It isn't about charity. It is about risk taking in order to obtain potential rewards at the most early beginnings of a project. With investing this means money. With a kickstart program it means some bonuses included with your pledge and the potential of a game being developed you may very well be interested in.

 

It is risk. Nobody here would suggest otherwise. It is obvious you don't get it. Even if you did and are not interested then why even post here? You have nothing to offer ... leave.

 

For those interested in the game or even just development process (like me but I also love the ideas behind the game) please read all of the many blogs @ http://www.eldergame.com/ . There is a facebook worth looking over to see why others like the game concept @ http://www.facebook.com/GorgonMMO . I have also requested that Mmorpg.com creates general forum for the game if only to discuss ideas in general. Honestly there is more info about this potential game available than most other higher profile kickstarters recently. I dare anyone to show any of the major mmo developers out there listing anything close to the many original ideas offered through the blogs (along with interesting general insights into mmo concepts and development by these professional developers .. well mostly Eric).

 

Obiously the game is the definition of an indie-project but even a small number of fans can support it simply through discussion if not a little money.

Nope, not broke. And I'm not going anywhere, but thank you so much for your attempt at advice.

I get it.

When you learn the value of money, you'll understand how us adults think.

I don't like kickstarter.. this is the gaming industry reduced to begging for money. It's begging...

Originally posted by Vannor

I don't like kickstarter.. this is the gaming industry reduced to begging for money. It's begging...

But when a big publisher does it, it's a preorder?  I know there is the whole refundable difference, but indies preselling their games makes games happen that wouldn't have because they wouldn't have found an investor.

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan
 

One could think that your 15$ are the equivalent of the total GNP of the USA the way you would disect the investors and projects.

Its called disposable income for a reason.

Sorry, I don't consider any of my money "disposable".

I expect a return on every one of my dollars. Whether it be a product or service, I will recieve something for my cash.

I don't give money for "maybes" and 'promises" and "feature lists".

Will I give to charity? Of course. I've given to food banks, shelters, etc.

"Game developers" are not a recognized charity nor am I willing to donate to them as such.

It must be a pain to live like that.

Researching the chocolate chip cookies, their manufacturer, their distributor, graphics designers and the governmental body that manages sanitation at their plant.

/ad absurdum

Seriously though, you can't tell me you have the same "care" for money on everything. Well, you can, but I wouldn't believe you, or, giving you the benefit of the doubt, believe you and conclude you suffer from OCD.

You playing the grumpy old daddy-figure that "teaches" us the value of money is laughable.

Everyone knows the value money (or anything else) has for them, its not universal, there isn't a base line, take an economy class.

Get of my laaaawn.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan
 

One could think that your 15$ are the equivalent of the total GNP of the USA the way you would disect the investors and projects.

Its called disposable income for a reason.

Sorry, I don't consider any of my money "disposable".

I expect a return on every one of my dollars. Whether it be a product or service, I will recieve something for my cash.

I don't give money for "maybes" and 'promises" and "feature lists".

Will I give to charity? Of course. I've given to food banks, shelters, etc.

"Game developers" are not a recognized charity nor am I willing to donate to them as such.

It must be a pain to live like that.

Researching the chocolate chip cookies, their manufacturer, their distributor, graphics designers and the governmental body that manages sanitation at their plant.

/ad absurdum

Seriously though, you can't tell me you have the same "care" for money on everything. Well, you can, but I wouldn't believe you, or, giving you the benefit of the doubt, believe you and conclude you suffer from OCD.

You playing the grumpy old daddy-figure that "teaches" us the value of money is laughable.

Everyone knows the value money (or anything else) has for them, its not universal, there isn't a base line, take an economy class.

Get of my laaaawn.

You don't seem to grasp what i'm saying.

I don't have to research the goddamn chocolate chip cookies because they're right there, in the store in front of me, ready for purchase and consumption.

I don't go to the cashier and hand her $3.99 for some cookies that don't exist yet but  are supposed to be really great when they finally get on the shelf 2 years from now.

Originally posted by AdamTM

It must be a pain to live like that.

Researching the chocolate chip cookies, their manufacturer, their distributor, graphics designers and the governmental body that manages sanitation at their plant.

/ad absurdum

Seriously though, you can't tell me you have the same "care" for money on everything. Well, you can, but I wouldn't believe you, or, giving you the benefit of the doubt, believe you and conclude you suffer from OCD.

You playing the grumpy old daddy-figure that "teaches" us the value of money is laughable.

Everyone knows the value money (or anything else) has for them, its not universal, there isn't a base line, take an economy class.

Get of my laaaawn.

At least I have a lawn and my chocolate chip cookies that I've purchased with my non-disposable money. I even expect to get my pennies back when I make a purchase at the local convenience store. The store isn't a charity. These developers aren't charities. When they have  product that I can receive when I put my money in their hands I'll give them a look-see. Until then? Not one red copper plated zinc cent.

Originally posted by Loke666

If you’re on fire and near a lake, jump in the lake to put the fire out!

This part really is something I wondered about in most games, it should be easy to implement... And why doesnt the weather affect spells for that matter? One would think that fire and electrical spells would work better a warm sunny summer day than a rainy autumn day.

But frankly do I think we need a lot more info before investing in this or getting hyped about it. The information seemed a bit short. *It might be an interesting game but it is hard to tell right now.

Vindictus already did this whole "you are fire jump in a lake to put it out." It works really well as a mechanic in the dragon raids.

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan
 

One could think that your 15$ are the equivalent of the total GNP of the USA the way you would disect the investors and projects.

Its called disposable income for a reason.

Sorry, I don't consider any of my money "disposable".

I expect a return on every one of my dollars. Whether it be a product or service, I will recieve something for my cash.

I don't give money for "maybes" and 'promises" and "feature lists".

Will I give to charity? Of course. I've given to food banks, shelters, etc.

"Game developers" are not a recognized charity nor am I willing to donate to them as such.

It must be a pain to live like that.

Researching the chocolate chip cookies, their manufacturer, their distributor, graphics designers and the governmental body that manages sanitation at their plant.

/ad absurdum

Seriously though, you can't tell me you have the same "care" for money on everything. Well, you can, but I wouldn't believe you, or, giving you the benefit of the doubt, believe you and conclude you suffer from OCD.

You playing the grumpy old daddy-figure that "teaches" us the value of money is laughable.

Everyone knows the value money (or anything else) has for them, its not universal, there isn't a base line, take an economy class.

Get of my laaaawn.

You don't seem to grasp what i'm saying.

I don't have to research the goddamn chocolate chip cookies because they're right there, in the store in front of me, ready for purchase and consumption.

I don't go to the cashier and hand her $3.99 for some cookies that don't exist yet but  are supposed to be really great when they finally get on the shelf 2 years from now.

And you don't understand a reductio ad absurdum.

I get what you are saying, I just think its stupid, because you are conflating purchase, charity, investment, and other economic concepts into one and think its ok to tell people to treat all of them exactly the same in their value-assessment.

The risk between (unknown) chocolate chip cookies for 3.99$ on the shelf, and promised ones in 3 years is exactly the same. You don't know what you get before you open the packaging and you can't return them when opened.

If the ones from the shelf are shit, you don't consume them and hence have lost 3.99$.

If the promised ones never arrive, you don't consume them and have lost 3.99$.

Would you feel better for your "investment" that you have shitty chocolate chip cookies on your shelf (instead of not having any at all) that you will never eat? Is your feeling of "being cheated" only if you don't get something, so you don't feel cheated that a company put out shitty chocolate chip cookies?

Will not having something influence your purchase decission in the future any other way than with sub-quality products (i.e. not buying from that particular manufacturer again)?

Will you eat the shitty chocolate chip cookies -anyways- no matter of quality or if they are fit for purpose, just because you spent 3.99$ on it? What exactly is your problem with the risk assessment?

Or is it solely the problem that you cant have the cookies RIGHT NOW?

And thats even without considering that we are talking about an ad absurdum.

Originally posted by Grunty

Originally posted by AdamTM

It must be a pain to live like that.

Researching the chocolate chip cookies, their manufacturer, their distributor, graphics designers and the governmental body that manages sanitation at their plant.

/ad absurdum

Seriously though, you can't tell me you have the same "care" for money on everything. Well, you can, but I wouldn't believe you, or, giving you the benefit of the doubt, believe you and conclude you suffer from OCD.

You playing the grumpy old daddy-figure that "teaches" us the value of money is laughable.

Everyone knows the value money (or anything else) has for them, its not universal, there isn't a base line, take an economy class.

Get of my laaaawn.

At least I have a lawn and my chocolate chip cookies that I've purchased with my non-disposable money. I even expect to get my pennies back when I make a purchase at the local convenience store. The store isn't a charity. These developers aren't charities. When they have  product that I can receive when I put my money in their hands I'll give them a look-see. Until then? Not one red copper plated zinc cent.

And thats absolutely fine. Good for you. Be my guest and conduct your business with your money any way you want.

But don't pontificate at me about how I, or anyone else, should or shouldn't act or how valuable your money should be to -me-.

Originally posted by Quirhid

You made me click the link. I hate you.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

 

The opposite is true for this. It has a very clear and manageable goal, and its by someone who is knowledgable about the subject. 

This is why I threw in $10.  The biggest problem with MMOs - wether Indie or Corporate are overpromising and underdelivering - with Vanguard as Exhibit A.   SOE tells us that they'll be delivering the world's biggest sandbox MMO after only two years of real development (they restarted development last year and it is supposed to be delivered by next year).  There's just no way.  These guys are delivering what they can: no raiding or PvP to start, 4 skill trees and a race cut, and a focus on emergent gameplay.   Yeah the graphics suck - but that's what the kickstarter is for.