Originally posted by Rimmersman

+1

I have no problem with anyone liking one MMO over another but when they start using lines like "proof that it's the future" or assuming that everyone shares their point if view it's laughable to say the least.

Most of them will be saying the same thing about another mmo sometime in the future.

Agreed.  I am happy others like the game.  I like it too.

But this extreme religious fanaticism has got to stop.  It's ok to get excited but when you go overboard, it really reeks of inauthenticity and has an off-putting effect to others whom are not head-over-heels in love with the game.

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Rimmersman

+1

I have no problem with anyone liking one MMO over another but when they start using lines like "proof that it's the future" or assuming that everyone shares their point if view it's laughable to say the least.

Most of them will be saying the same thing about another mmo sometime in the future.

Agreed.  I am happy others like the game.  I like it too.

But this extreme religious fanaticism has got to stop.  It's ok to get excited but when you go overboard, it really reeks of inauthenticity and has an off-putting effect to others whom are not head-over-heels in love with the game.

read your signature

While I like GW2, I found it boring (burnout perhaps).  Me personally.  Not the fighting.  The general questing.  Just a personal thing, and I'm well aware of my own preferences.  That being said, it is still installed and I will continue to go back to it (like I did with GW1).   That being said, I'm playing WoW right now (yes, a panda... which btw has a pretty excellent story) and I find myself hitting F to pick things up and doubletap my keys to dodge.  The more I play it, the more these instincts change but still.

I enjoyed GW2 but I have found I enjoy Rift/WoW just a little more.  And that's ok.  I will play GW2 in the future and continue to have a P2P game in the wings.

Funny thing for me. I was all over GW2 since pre-release. Now that its out, it actually pushed me towards EQ.  Cant argue the quality or beauty and its still installed.  But found out from playing that action combat and RPG dont mix well for me.  I prefer the slower combat, more in-depth gameplay.  Perhaps its my old age.

I hope I get my game one day, the same as some have with GW2.

Time will tell...

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

 

But in the end there is no way back, no way back to the old more static MMO games.... dynamic worlds and dynamic combat are the future of MMO´s. And GW2 is the first real step to proof that.

 

-sigh-

No, it's not "proof that it's the future". It proves that there's a market for that kind of game. Just as there is for other variations on MMORPGs.

It's great that you enjoy the game and that it's been an epiphany - for you - to play it. Just bring yourself back down to Earth, get your head out of the clouds, and realize it's not "the future" for everyone. Not everyone is playing GW2. Not everyone is interested in GW2. Not everyone who started playing GW2 is still playing it now.  Believe it or not, there are people playing MMOs who haven't even heard of GW2.

Just as you still miss elements of the more EQ-style MMOs, there are those who still prefer that setup entirely.

What I would like to see is for people to evolve past the whole idol worship of ANet and GW2, stop making these ridiculous declarations about it being "the future of MMOs". Would make it much easier to have normal, reasonable discussions again.

 

 

+1  as well.

Very well written.  I am in the group that tried it for a couple of weeks then went back to my other game (EQ2).  I love casters, and I just don't feel, for me, that GW2 handled them properly.  I shouldn't have to kite around, scramble around dodging like a chicken with my head cut off, to level my character when I fight mobs.  I -hate- kiting.  I sooo wanted to love the Elementalist and Mesmer, but  I just feel  a)  their playstyle is just really awkward for me and  b) they generally need dev attention anyway.

I have other dislikes that have been mentioned elsewhere, but mostly they hinge on the lack of need to be social in any way whatsoever, and the over-zealous fanboi's that completely ruin online forum communicaitons.  Oh, and I happen to like the trinity.  Having classes that are solidly specialized works.  If the dissolution of the trinity was such a great idea, why do I see people in GW2 creating builds to be as much of a tank or healer as they can possibly spec/gear into?  Regardless, I like the trinity system, and its another reason why the mesh with GW2 and I aren't working that well.

Oh, and I also dislike the great number of gold sinks, which, when paired with all their "solutions" to fix the bot plague by diminishing loot returns, makes it annoying to try to gain cash or farm for crafting mats.  Psst, ANET:  the bots are still there and your systems aren't working, so stop punishing the players who are simply trying to play the game.  Maybe they do it to funnel you into their Cash Shop so you'll buy gems then gold.  Who knows, but its NCSoft, and they have a former Nexon employee who specializes in Cash Shop design, so rest assured they are going to hamstring you here and there to get you to buy.  So much for using the Cash Shop for pure cosmetics.

Oh, and for a game that touted itself to be all about zero grind..that's all you end up doing later in the game.  When the "endgame" is so enemic that all you have left to do is grind a dungeon 70+ times, I'll pass.  They may have removed "raid grinding" for loot, but you are still doing the same thing for thousands and thousands of tokens.  Or, you could go to the Cash Shop and spend a couple hundred real life dollars in gems to trade for gold to buy that snazzy Tier 3 cultural set you want.  Yes, cosmetics are optional. No, you don't have to chase their carrots.  But when their content is so shallow, what else is there to do?   Yes, I've seen that ridiculous 80-item list for "endgame activities", but I'd rather work on solid, meaningful character progression in PvE and WvW, and GW2 simply doesn't have it.

Anyway.

GW2 is great for some people, and for others..not their cup of tea.  I think ANET did some innovative improvements that other game developers in other company's should pick up on.  Let's also not confuse much of what they state as "innovation" as merely being shiny new packaging of older, familiar mechanics and systems.  I see GW2 as a great framework for a better direction to go, but it most assuredly (imho) is not the next Coming. 

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

WvWvW has still many shortcommings, i really miss the personal rewards i remember from DAoCs realmpoints and realmranks. And i realy really miss the stupid killspam.

I

Wait, there isn't even fucking kill spam? Wow. Did they even think about PvP at all?

Interesting - my experience is very different from the OP - been playing a ton of Rift and EQ1 lately and only jump back to GW2 for about 30 min about 2 times a week. I love the fact that GW2 offers free play and you can have fun for a very short amount of time and jump back out to your main MMORPG.

imo GW2 is designed to be a backup game - totally rocks when played like that.

I actually tried WoW again last night, just for curiousity, on a free trial account, and made a Panda.  I kept trying to dodge and kept pressing F to loot.  I realized i just needed to stand in place and cast my skills instead.  Didn't need to use interrupts either.

I like that WoW has castbars & HP text though.  I missed those.  

Ultimately i found it dissapointing. Without making a thesis of a post, there are positives to GW2. It has great graphics. It runs well. Sadly under all the makeup and perfume i found it to be a rather drab and boring game. Incredibly unbalanced PvP, exploiting and map hacking every other game. Its not like anyone can deny what im saying. The information is plastered all over the internet.

It seems you guys are enjoying it and thats great. Im glad there is no monthly payment and i will try it again from time to time. I just dont find the balance in PvP, or even PvE to be competitive, or addicting in any fashion. I havent played in a few weeks so im sure things could have changed somewhat.

Edit; I just thought about it i just also add;

I didnt "quit" GW2 for another MMO. I just happen to be in limbo of not messing with MMOs right now. If anyone is in the same situation a few games im messing with you *might* enjoy are XCOM (the new one), War of the Roses, DayZ and sitting here getting ready to purchase WarZ alpha or Planetside 2 beta. Getting ready to purchase. Any old timers remember testing this stuff for free? heh.

Edit 2; This whole post was actually meant as a reply to the one right above it >.< Since it still applies somewhat, ill leave it here. Apologies if this seemed a bit off LOL. oops!

Originally posted by IPolygon

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Today i tried some of my favourite MMO´s just to see how they compared to GW2..

 

Playing an hour of each of them ( EQ2,Lotro, Vanguard) made me realise there is no way back for me to these kind of stale combat mechanics.. DDO prooved to be a bit more fun but then i am a D&D worldsetting and ruleset addict with a long pen and paper history, on top of that DCUO combat actually withstood the test.

 

For myself i have found that i prefer a game with much more acticve combat then the oldfashioned stand and push button MMO´s...Online games have evolved past the WoW/EQ model for me.

 

 

Playing GW2 has made me realise that its an awesome game so far and by far the best MMO around to suit my gaming needs at this current day. But i also realise its not perfect..

 

 

Many times i miss the trinity

Sometimes i wish that there would be some old fashioned quests, not to many but just a few more to tell some background stories

A little of open world server PvP would be appreciated, not everywhere, but i could imagine the 3 factions or the 5 races still openly fighting eachother in certain zones.

WvWvW has still many shortcommings, i really miss the personal rewards i remember from DAoCs realmpoints and realmranks. And i realy really miss the stupid killspam.

I still miss the point why all instances must have the same main target areas in sPvP.

 

But in the end there is no way back, no way back to the old more static MMO games.... dynamic worlds and dynamic combat are the future of MMO´s. And GW2 is the first real step to proof that.

 

 

Background for quests/DEs is there. You just have to talk to them for further details and/or wait and listen for what happens next after you complete an event. I understand your points, and although I don't agree with you on the parts that are missing in GW2 from other games, I become nostalgic over certain things that remind me of GW1 and how ANet did it in the prequel. For example the story in GW1:Prophecies is much better than the one in Factions, Nightfall and EotN. The missions follow each other much better and tell the story in a more coherent way. The story of GW2 feels to me like you have to do your race story from 1-x, then your order story from x-y and then comes Trahearne and ruins the story altogether.

 

It just feels segregated and not thought through. What makes the story even worse is no antagonist got any kind of personality. They are just evil and Trahearne is evil too, in another sense. The three NPCs I remember from playing thro the story are Seiran, Tybalt and the guy who smashes stuff just for fun from the vigil. All other characters remain bland (destiny edge included). I remember a lot more from the old GW1 NPCs. The story overall may not be that great, but the characters had substance. GW2 is completely missing that part.

I know its there, but i dont see any reason not to have some old fashioned quests in addition to what is allready there. Not a lot of them, but just a few. It would add even more diversity to the game anyway.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I know its there, but i dont see any reason not to have some old fashioned quests in addition to what is allready there. Not a lot of them, but just a few. It would add even more diversity to the game anyway.

What he means is those "old fashioned" quest stories are already there, it's just up to you to talk to the various NPCs and learn about them. The game doesn't hold your hand there.

Originally posted by DMKano

Interesting - my experience is very different from the OP - been playing a ton of Rift and EQ1 lately and only jump back to GW2 for about 30 min about 2 times a week. I love the fact that GW2 offers free play and you can have fun for a very short amount of time and jump back out to your main MMORPG.

imo GW2 is designed to be a backup game - totally rocks when played like that.

I disagree, GW2 has more content than any P2P MMO had at launch. I can get lost in WvWvW for hours on end, would never have time to play another MMO. I can't even think about other games, normally things like Borderlands 2 etc would have gotten my attention but now I could care less, GW2 is all I need. Even got an invite to PS2 beta,  deleted the mail right away.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

WvWvW has still many shortcommings, i really miss the personal rewards i remember from DAoCs realmpoints and realmranks. And i realy really miss the stupid killspam.

I

Wait, there isn't even fucking kill spam? Wow. Did they even think about PvP at all?

 Why would you clutter up the map with kill spam? Hell, we don't even have (or need) the actual names of the enemies. Those who are worthy of recognition are recognized, the rest are simply targets.

Nice post Bachus.  I've done the same and came to a similar conclusion.  Not just about GW2 but about all my games.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

LOTRO combat already felt slow compared to games like WoW before I played GW2, I only played the game because of the setting and the story - I bought Rohan with my free Turbine points as a lifetimer, but I can barely log in and each fight looks like one of those old B movie slow motion crap.

Even WoW looks slow compared to GW2, and I still rate it as one of the most responsive combat engine of MMO history. I found myself trying to dodge attacks, and being frustrated I wasn't able to.

LotRO combat always felt slow to me too.  I played the game for 4.5 years because I liked the setting and the lore-master and minstrel used to be so much fun for me.

When I moved over to RIFT it felt positively fluid by comparison, but now when I try and dodge an attack or similar tactics it feels like I'm stuck no matter what I do.  I mean that I can see something coming but when I try and move I get hit anyway.  It's like I'm stuck in an inevitible event that I should be able to avoid.  It drives me feckin crazy.

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

But in the end there is no way back, no way back to the old more static MMO games.... dynamic worlds and dynamic combat are the future of MMO´s. And GW2 is the first real step to proof that.

-sigh-

No, it's not "proof that it's the future". It proves that there's a market for that kind of game. Just as there is for other variations on MMORPGs.

It's great that you enjoy the game and that it's been an epiphany - for you - to play it. Just bring yourself back down to Earth, get your head out of the clouds, and realize it's not "the future" for everyone. Not everyone is playing GW2. Not everyone is interested in GW2. Not everyone who started playing GW2 is still playing it now.  Believe it or not, there are people playing MMOs who haven't even heard of GW2.

Just as you still miss elements of the more EQ-style MMOs, there are those who still prefer that setup entirely.

What I would like to see is for people to evolve past the whole idol worship of ANet and GW2, stop making these ridiculous declarations about it being "the future of MMOs". Would make it much easier to have normal, reasonable discussions again.

Yes, it was probably a little over stated to assert that it's the definitive future, but also don't under estimate it's power.  The tone of your post says to me you think there is a niche for this style but it's not that big of a deal.

This isn't about GW2 even though Bachus framed it in that reference.  This is about an evolution of combat mechanics from old predictible and sludgy to fluid and mobile.  It is about GW2, but it's also about Tera, RaiderZ, Neverwinter, and the stable of games that are adopting a more agile and dynamic system.

There is a lot of room for growth, evolution, and development with the more action oriented combat style.  The static combat style won't go away for sure, but I think it's seen it's peak, lacks any real evolutionary potential, and will wane.