Originally posted by darkrain21

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by darkrain21
you do know its in alpha...right?

I can't think of many games that actually change from the time they let players in, to the time it goes live, regardless of the name they give the phase (alpha, beta, closed beta, etc.).  Having said that, alpha is usually a very early build meant for the developers and maybe close friends to play, just to test basic things out, like the major gamplay mechanics and game engine stuff.  Letting players in on an Alpha is either stupid on their part, or actually a beta phase named alpha to give them more time to build the game.

I think letting more people into the alpha is actually a very wise move for this game. It gives them the ranters and anger trolls a chance to let what they hate roll off and the developers can then go back and get all the VERY big bugs and annoyinces nocked out so that beta becomes much smoother and they can focus on stability. Also you have clearly never been in an Alpha before. World of warcrafts alpha was almost another game by the time beta started and then it changed even more when launch happend

I was in the a fairly large part of the friends and family alpha for world of warcraft (around december '03), and it is one of the last games to have an actual alpha/beta cycle that wasn't just marketing.  I did say I couldn't think of "many" games, which is different than none.

Look at most every other MMO that's been released in the last 5 years and try and find one that didn't just use the "beta" phase to build press.  These days, beta testing is really just what used to be called stress testing plus marketing.  I've been in betas that barely had a decent method to report bugs and flaws beyond posting on a forum, essentially lacking even a pretense of development.

SWtOR was pretty much the last Beta I "helped" with, and is was pretty much the last nail in the coffin.  Months of everyone reporting problems that needed be fixed met with near silence.  Low and behold, after release, the problems were still there and only THEN did Bioware bother to start fixing them.  Honestly, I have no idea what they were doing during the beta, because it wasn't development.

I'm not playing War Z so I don't know what state the alpha is in.  All I know is that alphas really shouldn't be available to potential customers for a variety of reasons.  Keep it in house and when it's ready for broader tested, then it goes beta.  The fact that they are doing it the way they are tells me they likely just don't have the staff for even alpha level testing, meaning they had no choice but to open it up a bit.  That or they just needed the cash and figured alpha access was a good carrot.  Either way, it's not a great sign, but maybe they'll prove me wrong with a solid MMO release.

Originally posted by Panther2103
They have been keeping the community up to date and released a patch today. I don't smell any rats. I smell a company actually testing the game and allowing people who want to play it early in to test the game. They are probably getting giant bug lists compiled right now. The only issue I have ran into with the game that I wasn't expecting was the sheer amount of player killing there is. But it definately adds to the tension overall. They give you the feeling not to trust anyone.

So everyone killing everyone losing all your stuff and not being able to trust anyone is good how?

Originally posted by snapfusion

Originally posted by Panther2103
They have been keeping the community up to date and released a patch today. I don't smell any rats. I smell a company actually testing the game and allowing people who want to play it early in to test the game. They are probably getting giant bug lists compiled right now. The only issue I have ran into with the game that I wasn't expecting was the sheer amount of player killing there is. But it definately adds to the tension overall. They give you the feeling not to trust anyone.

So everyone killing everyone losing all your stuff and not being able to trust anyone is good how?

it adds an element of fear and self worth. If you face a chance to lose everything arnt you going to be a bit more attatched to your character. this and DayZ are not for the casual player.

Originally posted by darkrain21

Originally posted by snapfusion

Originally posted by Panther2103
They have been keeping the community up to date and released a patch today. I don't smell any rats. I smell a company actually testing the game and allowing people who want to play it early in to test the game. They are probably getting giant bug lists compiled right now. The only issue I have ran into with the game that I wasn't expecting was the sheer amount of player killing there is. But it definately adds to the tension overall. They give you the feeling not to trust anyone.

So everyone killing everyone losing all your stuff and not being able to trust anyone is good how?

it adds an element of fear and self worth. If you face a chance to lose everything arnt you going to be a bit more attatched to your character. this and DayZ are not for the casual player.

And it makes it so that you actually have to build in game relationships, rather than solo constantly. The better players will always be working together.

Originally posted by DavisFlight
Are you guys honestly going to try to argue that this game ISN'T a quickly slapped together cash grab?

This game is a huge cash grab.  To the people saying, "Oh but it's in Alpha stage!!", yeah what Alpha stage lasts, what 15 days?  Then Beta starts.....no, no, no.   

Originally posted by DavisFlight
Are you guys honestly going to try to argue that this game ISN'T a quickly slapped together cash grab?

No, we aren't.

Originally posted by Grunty
Never pay to test an alpha or beta product and then complain about paying for it.

Even better, never believe a game can go from "alpha" to 'release" in two weeks without having your head examined by a professional first.

Originally posted by kaiser3282

Originally posted by Aethaeryn
Paypal won't do it for items that are not actually shipped.  You cant say you didn't get what you paid for etc.    The only hope you have is that the company does not respond to your claim and they default to your side.

Actually, unless it changed in the past few months, its the opposite. Paypal will refund you, and the company cannot dispute the chargeback UNLESS there was a physical item shipped.

Ran into this issue on a private server I used to run. My partner lost a lot of money (nearly $50k) in chargebacks when he sold his previous server off to someone else. So with the new server, purchases of the custom PvP equipment (most expensive stuff) was also accompanied by some items shipped to the buyer so that they couldnt charge back via paypal down the road if they quit playing or whatever.

That is bizarre.  I know that when other people tried for MO they could not get a chargeback through PayPal.  They said they do not reverse charges for "virtual" products.

I tried once for a browser based game and even included screenshots of how I did not get what was advertised at all.  They shut down my request right away.  I didn't care about the money as much as the crappy response I got from the company. . now I know why I got that response.  I will have to look into that more. .

but yea. . back to the OP who is likley gone.  You bought something before seeing it just like people did with MO to get into the beta.  Never a good idea.  I would contact the company rather than go through Paypal right away.

EDIT:  Hmm looks like things changed since I had that problem.  Sellers are not protected when it is intangible or digital goods.  Glad to see that although it does mess up sellers.

Originally posted by KrAv3

Originally posted by DavisFlight
Are you guys honestly going to try to argue that this game ISN'T a quickly slapped together cash grab?

This game is a huge cash grab.  To the people saying, "Oh but it's in Alpha stage!!", yeah what Alpha stage lasts, what 15 days?  Then Beta starts.....no, no, no.   

They know the engine well, they have sued it in their other game war inc.. because of this they should be able to fix any major engine issues pretty fast.
 

They actually posted on the forums asking the community if they wanted access to alpha as part of the pre-order, of course most said yes as they wanted to help out as soon as they could..

After yesterdays patch they game is very stable and playable.. so i cant see 15 days of alpha being an issue.

Originally posted by Caldrin

Originally posted by KrAv3

Originally posted by DavisFlight
Are you guys honestly going to try to argue that this game ISN'T a quickly slapped together cash grab?

This game is a huge cash grab.  To the people saying, "Oh but it's in Alpha stage!!", yeah what Alpha stage lasts, what 15 days?  Then Beta starts.....no, no, no.   

They know the engine well, they have sued it in their other game war inc.. because of this they should be able to fix any major engine issues pretty fast.
 

They actually posted on the forums asking the community if they wanted access to alpha as part of the pre-order, of course most said yes as they wanted to help out as soon as they could..

 

After yesterdays patch they game is very stable and playable.. so i cant see 15 days of alpha being an issue.

The engine was utter trash in War Inc though, I have no idea why you expect them to fix the engine now when they wouldn't fix it in there previous game. Maybe they will now though with all the money they have raked in from this alpha debacle.

Also Big Rigs was utterly broken..

It works both ways though, if companies sell access to the beta/alpha then what do they expect in return?

Hardly anyone is going to volunteer to do QA, it's a fucking miserable job.

Originally posted by SlickShoes

It works both ways though, if companies sell access to the beta/alpha then what do they expect in return?

Hardly anyone is going to volunteer to do QA, it's a fucking miserable job.

I've worked in QA for years and it is in no way miserable.  If you're in a closed beta just to feel special because you got the game before everyone else, you're wasting a closed beta key and are hindering the dev team.

Originally posted by Saur0n

Originally posted by SlickShoes

It works both ways though, if companies sell access to the beta/alpha then what do they expect in return?

Hardly anyone is going to volunteer to do QA, it's a fucking miserable job.

I've worked in QA for years and it is in no way miserable.  If you're in a closed beta just to feel special because you got the game before everyone else, you're wasting a closed beta key and are hindering the dev team.

It depends massively on what you are testing and the company you work for. I worked on a AAA title and was worked 60-70 hours week, the game was good but the hours weren't. I also worked on a bad game for less hours, it was pretty dire.

Anyway my point is no one here is "wasting" a beta key because they paid for it, are these companies really that naieve to think that everyone that purchases alpha/beta access is going to be a valuable tester. 

It's not even easy to get a good job in QA, there is a reason they are picky about who they hire and don't just invite a random mass of people to play.