Originally posted by bigsmiff

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

LOTRO comes to my mind (before Turbine ruined the lore with flashy classes and turned it into the most awful pay 2 win model of the industry, of course), a good game, but not on my top list.

Yet it is still one of the best the F2P models in the industry.

If you're really into "pay to win", if that's your thing, sure... keep in mind that in LOTRO, the best gear with the best stats can only be obtained using the cash shop. Want the best legendary weapon? You NEED the cash shop. Also, want to compete in monster play? You will NEED the cash shop for your monster.

So please define "best", because from the player's point of view, it's definitely one of the worse.

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Originally posted by Vhaln

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Originally posted by Tayah For me, sadly, there hasn't been a really good mmo since Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, and the original Asheron's Call.

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Those were all well before 2005...

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Well this all seems very subjective. Personally I can think of Darkfall off the top of my head, I found that to be a "better" mmorpg for all it's faults.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by bigsmiff

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

LOTRO comes to my mind (before Turbine ruined the lore with flashy classes and turned it into the most awful pay 2 win model of the industry, of course), a good game, but not on my top list.

Yet it is still one of the best the F2P models in the industry.

If you're really into "pay to win", if that's your thing, sure... keep in mind that in LOTRO, the best gear with the best stats can only be obtained using the cash shop. Want the best legendary weapon? You NEED the cash shop. Also, want to compete in monster play? You will NEED the cash shop for your monster.

So please define "best", because from the player's point of view, it's definitely one of the worse.

I understand how PVMP is P2W in LOTRO. 

I stopped playing a while ago.  Why do you need to use the shop to make the best legendary?  And define best legendary, is it just a minor improvement over what you can make without the store?

I hate Turbine these days, but if it comes down to them shutting down or using cash hungry tactics on their Middle Earth fanboys, I know which I'll choose.

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Originally posted by Jimmy562
In my opinion SWTOR. I enjoy playing GW2 but enjoy SWTOR a little more. 

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Originally posted by FrodoFragins

I understand how PVMP is P2W in LOTRO. 

I stopped playing a while ago.  Why do you need to use the shop to make the best legendary?  And define best legendary, is it just a minor improvement over what you can make without the store?

Very simple. The best items to improve a legendary are only in the cash shop. Want to add a legacy slot? Cash shop again, and that's definitely not a "minor improvement".

Originally posted by TeknoBug

 

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Originally posted by Vhaln

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Originally posted by Tayah For me, sadly, there hasn't been a really good mmo since Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, and the original Asheron's Call.

Those were all well before 2005...

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I think that's Tayah's point, post 2005 the MMO market got oversaturated with garbage. It's about time a game like GW2 came along.

I guess the idea of drawing the line post-WoW is exactly because of that.  It's not a question of whether GW2 has revolutionized the genre.. No MMO is going to compare to those golden age pre-WoW-clone MMOs.. but can they at least help the genre get moving in the right direction again?

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Very simple. The best items to improve a legendary are only in the cash shop. Want to add a legacy slot? Cash shop again, and that's definitely not a "minor improvement".

I had absolutely no problem with the Turbine shop when it was still only selling cosmetic stuff and bank/inventory upgrades. But now they started to sell gear or mandatory stuff related to gear, and it gets worse every new patch. For the player, that model is just awful.

I think you need to give us an example. Put together something with the help of the cashshop that we cant get ingame. In details,thanks, that helps a lot.

Personally is right now the only item I bought from the cashshop my Black lion salvage kit (they also drop from the chests, but the keys for them are rare). And that is 300 (or is it 400?) gems, something not that hard to exchange for gold (1-2 gold depeding on current rate). And I needed that to get higher chanse of dropping ectos, not 100% neccesarily but it helps.

While I enjoyed GW2, I've gone back to the prowl of Rift and WoW.  WoW isn't bad, it's just a bit dated.  And yet, I find myself returning to it.  Same for Rift.

Just my opinion.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Very simple. The best items to improve a legendary are only in the cash shop. Want to add a legacy slot? Cash shop again, and that's definitely not a "minor improvement".

I had absolutely no problem with the Turbine shop when it was still only selling cosmetic stuff and bank/inventory upgrades. But now they started to sell gear or mandatory stuff related to gear, and it gets worse every new patch. For the player, that model is just awful.

I think you need to give us an example. Put together something with the help of the cashshop that we cant get ingame. In details,thanks, that helps a lot.

Personally is right now the only item I bought from the cashshop my Black lion salvage kit (they also drop from the chests, but the keys for them are rare). And that is 300 (or is it 400?) gems, something not that hard to exchange for gold (1-2 gold depeding on current rate). And I needed that to get higher chanse of dropping ectos, not 100% neccesarily but it helps.

I was talking about LOTRO there, not GW2.

I even say "Turbine shop" in my post... :)

Great tone to this thread so far despite it's title

I enjoy GW2 a lot, but I wouldnt say its the best since 2005. I couldnt name any MMO where I would claim that. What I will say is that IMHO GW2 has the the best productiuon quality that I have seen in an MMO since 2005.

If I could have am MMO with the vision of Vanguard and the production quality of GW2, I would be in MMO heaven. 

Yes, I feel I had more fun in WAR and just because they tied the instanced PvP into the rest of the game so I could spend most of my time doing, intense PvP:ing. GW 2 has sPvP which is separate from the rest of the game, so I dont like that, and WvW which most of the time is running around with Zergs and flipping control points.

I much preferred the small group fights in instanced PvP scenarios in WAR and for me open world PvP should be more like in Darkfall (the concept, not the implementation). So for me GW 2 is great in PvE but quite poor in PvP, which is the part of MMORPGs I value the most.

GW2 is good for about a month, after that it becomes Guild Bores 2 so no it's not the best since 2005 imo.

The Secret World is better in every way except graphics imo.

None of the above from how I like my MMO's designed.

I measure mmo-quality using alot of measurements. One measurement is amount of systems(housing, crafting depth, player construction, pvp system(s)?, group-content, exploratory-potential, role-play-ability, and so on.

Guild wars 2 is a very young game and doesnt have common things like housing, fishing, etc. So you basically somersault around the world for exploration and achievements, it seems crafting is something done for bagspace maintenance, and if your tired of that you hop into WvWvW or a battleground. Maybe after years and years of development it will be fun, but after the new-ness of combat wears off the above is what your left with.

Games that have more post 2005:

Rift

Vanguard

WoW-(I personally dont like this game for many reason,)

Additional Notes: There are many sandboxes also that I would prefer to play over a game like GW2 also for typical reasons that make sandboxes more appealing. Also I enjoyed SWTOR more than GW2. Not knocking GW2 or its fans, I am glad they found a game they like.

Rift and SWTOR are better.

Edit: Add WAR to that list.