Originally posted by ZizouX

Loved Rift for 5 months but one thing ruined it for me... Most of you will say it's a "stupid reason" but it was gamebreaking for me.  I never looked back.

 

I couldn't stand the Macro system.  You could design a macro that incorporated 6 abilities in one, based on a priority / timer system.  As DPS or Tank, you could spam 5-6 macros that combined many abilities without any consequences.

 

Most of you would say, "you don't have to do that," but the efficiency in doing so is unmistakable.  Trying getting owned in pvp without using the macros or doing pve content without doing that.

 

It just really killed an otherwise awesome game.  I'm a huge Hartman fan... i hope this game does really well even if i'm not going to be playing (Gw2 and FFXIV) will be my MMOS.

Last I heard, they basically destroyed that way of play.  Nowadays, if you try that, you have to expect to be getting significantly sub-optimal numbers.

Originally posted by Tamanous

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by Tamanous
Comparing two similar and mundane games does little to help those wanting much more out of their mmorpg. Trion could have been a great company with an original product instead of a great company with an intentional mmo clone.

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Comments like these make me laugh because you must be intentionally turning a blind eye. Even if you hate rift, you cant dent that trion has no fear changing and adding to their game. They have added not just content patches and tweaks to existing features, but entirely new systems and ways to play.

 

Its one of the main reasons i support trion with my rift sub. It is exciting to play an mmo that is constantly adding new features. I always feel like if theres something missing from the game that we would like to see, the devs hear us and are working on ways to implement it.

I do not hate Rift nor Wow. They are though fundamentally the same. Quest hub themeparks and I would go so far to say Wow does it even better than Rift. I have put my time into both games. I have no blind eye as I can see plainly what Rift is ... a themepark game patterned exactly after other game's successes and few original ideas of it's own. It has it's rift gimic and that is about it.

 

Because they do something well does that mean it is completely original? Do you not log into Rift and still go from the same quest hub to the next and often they are so close to each other you can see each from each other? Every new feature they are adding is a reactionary response to what they think the masses want and nothing to do with what their own vision is. That is why I will not support games like it any longer. If Rift is a massive success the next developer will just come along and make yet another themepark clone with no soul ... and for a game with so many souls it sure is soulless. Same quest systems, same pvp systems, same dungeon systems, same class systems done only slightly differently (not that I really care much about that ... more the outcome and it suffers from the melee weight issue along with character stiffness. Largely due to the engine I simply cannot stand used on mmo's).

 

Will the new expansion hide all it's stolen systems ... which is exactly what it intends to do? Players complained the world was too small ... so they make a massive world expansion update. Will it do anything differently though? WIll it not just be more quest hubs and zones you ultimately out level to set up raiding and never come back to other than raping rifts from lower level players? Will the end game ever be more than waiting for the next raid to master? Will the 3 way faction battles be nothing more than control point swaps and zerg armies fighting over made up point and token systems and an entirely seperate non-so-mini-minigame?

 

Rift is still a game where you log in with one gonad strapped to it's leveling path until it allows you to reach the areas you want to go when it deems it available ... not you (Strap yourselves in and hold on to your genitals boys and girls! We're going for a ride! YEE-HAW!). It matters not what it does differently or perfects better when it is all sugar coating over the core principle of the game. It is a themepark clone and that will never, ever change.

 

Enjoy the hell out of it if you want but it will not change what it is and that others are looking for something else. The essence of the argument is that it is pointless debating which game prevails or reach milestones of success. The entire point is that they both are the same beast and offer nothing to those not looking for a themepark templated clone. Many of us want all these developers to stop trying to sell us a blue car more "blue'r" than the last one. I don't want a #$%@ing blue car!

 

To me articles talking about how a game cloned after Wow is doing well against Wow is a pointless debate and the argument that they are succeeding by deviating from the original cloned concept is hilarious and saddening at the same time. Maybe they are building a blue-green car! Yay?

 

The problem is that if you try to start out as differently as you say, the game is usually doomed to fail, as has been proven over the past decade.

It's best to provide a game similar to what's being offered at the time, become successful and build a community, and then start making the bigger changes to the genre.  If the changes are received well, then that change could become a fundamental standard for the rest of the genre.

It's best to just take a look at the direction that the games are going, and invest while hoping it stays in that direction.  Sure, it's a risk, but every venture in investment is...

Originally posted by itchmon

 there's a humongous difference between playing a game where the devs tell you what is fun and a game where the developers ask the players what is fun.

 

Like Conquest?

Generaly you arent far off (except if you dont think WoW is listenng to its players with MoP you are nuts...they just arent listening on everything), but Conquest was 100% Trion trying to tell its customers 'this is what you wanted!', when its not what was asked for (not by many anyway, people wanted open world PvP not a 3 team battle ground in a 2 faction game)

Originally posted by gbooster

I'm sorry but there is a huge fundamental flaw with Rift that will always keep it behind WoW. That is the performance of Rift's engine and their network coding. I am talking from experience, I have played wow since 2004 and Rift since it was launched. Rift has serious coding issues that hold the game back, like having 1-2 second ability delays due to server lag. It makes trying to raid hard progression content impossible. 

In the SL beta (on stream, no NDA break, ladida) the fps is way higher on the same settings than in the current non-expansion version. The game went from 30-40 to 60-70 fps on maxed settings.

Also ability delay has been a bit high on primetime since last patch, but it's become way better now and I (not a hardcore nagger) hardly notice it.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by Benbrada
Bill, continue your thought process and compare Rift to GW2 :-)

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Why? That would just make gw2 look bad ;)

[mod edit]

and someone says their not bitter... riiiiight...:)

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

WoW has a spell over a lot of people who don't even know Rift exists.  People who don't come to this website and never will come to this website.  Who don't thirst for gaming news or information on "other titles".  Who have no interest in trying something else...  I've witnessed it on a personal level in several different individuals.

Rift will never have that.

And thats WoW's unfair advantage.

Couldn't agree more.  None of my online or real life WOW friends have ever tried another game, and can't be coaxed into trying free offerings from them.  It's like they are brainwashed.  WOW was ok in it's day, but it's ancient.  How anyone can look at those stiff characters with their minimalistic movments moving about in that mushy, 2000 era graphic environment is beyond me.  But I can't rip them from it.  I'm going with brainwashed.  Must be it.

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Originally posted by Aerowyn

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Originally posted by GeezerGamer

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Originally posted by Foomerang  

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Originally posted by Benbrada Bill, continue your thought process and compare Rift to GW2 :-)

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  Why? That would just make gw2 look bad ;)

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[mod edit]

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and someone says their not bitter... riiiiight...:)

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Originally posted by Aviggin

What I've gathered from this article is that, Dynamic events aside, Rift is doing everything World of Warcraft is doing and adding housing where Blizzard is against it in order to keep people in the cities and such.

If WoW had some sort of dynamic events system, Rift wouldn't even be a blip on the radar, to be honest.

 

Only if WOW also upgraded their graphics engine, their character designs, their armor designs, weapons designs, gave their characters much better fighting animations, and tried to give them some semblence of personality.  Then, maybe.  I've waited three years for WOW to do just one of the above.  Now, only 7 days to go and my sub finally expires.  Freedom!

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Aviggin

What I've gathered from this article is that, Dynamic events aside, Rift is doing everything World of Warcraft is doing and adding housing where Blizzard is against it in order to keep people in the cities and such.

If WoW had some sort of dynamic events system, Rift wouldn't even be a blip on the radar, to be honest.

Rift is WoW, WoW is Rift, which is why I can't understand why anyone bothers with Rift. Its got Tabula Rasa's rifts...but done worse, and gets old in a week. Literally nothing unique about it. But trying to be like WoW hasn't been a winning strategy for any MMO ever so... no surprise that Rift has had to merge servers.

 

Or that WOW has lost 2 million players?

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by gbooster

I'm sorry but there is a huge fundamental flaw with Rift that will always keep it behind WoW. That is the performance of Rift's engine and their network coding. I am talking from experience, I have played wow since 2004 and Rift since it was launched. Rift has serious coding issues that hold the game back, like having 1-2 second ability delays due to server lag. It makes trying to raid hard progression content impossible. If you doubt me go visit the Rift forums. People have been bitching about this since Ember Isle came out and the game engine never really performed that well since the launch. Also the combat is a big step down, as in smooth gameplay. No one has even come close to  how well WoW actually plays. That's the reason it's number one across the world.

 

Rift has some great things going for it, and it might even perform well when compared to other games like EQ2 or something, but if you are going to directly compare it to WoW, Rift is a huge step down in terms of smooth gameplay.

I agree that the engine is a hog... there's no reason Rift should run like it does. 

I disagree with the combat though. RIFTs combat is just as good as WoWs. If anything my melee setup on my rift rogue plays much better than my rogue in WoW... Combat wasn't the problem with rift, it was lack of variety when leveling alts and the game being hardcore raid or nothing at endgame.

I've just never found another game that has the response time and makes me feel as in control of my character as WoW does. WoW has some issues, its a bit too cookie cutter even if they cut the cookie, that cookie is 8 years old now. But just on pure performance it can't be beat and when you really try playing the cutting edge content in a game like WoW or Rift performance becomes a big factor.

Not talking to you here, but some of the people in this thread have serious issues with their WoW hate lol. Take a chill pill and leg go of your hatred... om mani padmi hum, dudes.

Originally posted by Retief

Originally posted by Aviggin

What I've gathered from this article is that, Dynamic events aside, Rift is doing everything World of Warcraft is doing and adding housing where Blizzard is against it in order to keep people in the cities and such.

If WoW had some sort of dynamic events system, Rift wouldn't even be a blip on the radar, to be honest.

 

Only if WOW also upgraded their graphics engine, their character designs, their armor designs, weapons designs, gave their characters much better fighting animations, and tried to give them some semblence of personality.  Then, maybe.  I've waited three years for WOW to do just one of the above.  Now, only 7 days to go and my sub finally expires.  Freedom!

 

Rift is the wrong game to compare to WoW for this.  Rift's combat animations are subpar (most, not all of them), the weapon and armor designs arent a strong point, and their characters have zero personality.  And while Rift has better graphics, it kinda runs like ass.  Ill take the tradeoff in graphics for performance boost any day of the week.

Originally posted by simlol12
to be truely honest , rift is booring , screw housing in my opinion , game has nothing innovative or exceptional , ok class system is nice , but pvp is terrible completly utter rubbish zergfist , it still has same derpy raiding style/dungeons/hc as wow has , so it offers no new play style , and the most annoying part , ITS A DAMN PC RESOURCES BEAST , rift graphics kinda nice , despite fact its dark gloomy emo  shaddy type , i hate it , but its sooo dull and bulky , and slows down and consumes LOTS of cpu/ram/gpu power , thats big downside for rift , it lags like shit pc/ping both sides ! mostly in raids ,and trion isdoing  nothing bout it , so no ,, i will still play wow , as its really smooth to play it and comfortable , and also about smoothness , character movment seems heavy , turing aqnd jumping , cast and channeling , it seems vry...HARD....and heavy to cast freely and fast paced way unlike wow , its waaay smoother and cooler in wow character's , my opinion afterall

 

No problem, opinion is opinion.  My opinion is that WOW is smoother because it is simplier.  The graphics are simplier, character animations simplier, and therefore, boring.  Watching my WOW mage once more bounce along on her mount life a puppet glued to the back of a small dog, throwing her arms out and firing off blue balls of light was more than I could take after playing Rfit for 4 months while waiting for MOP.   I needed to get back to Rift so I could see my mage actually use her staff, swinging it around and thrusting it at her foe, her weight shifting from back foot to front foot, as she put her entire being into the cast.  But, if you like WOW's stilted, 12 year old animation quality, good for you.  I couldn't take it anymore. That, and the fact that WOW is so easy my hunter didn't die once going from lvl 85 to 90.

Originally posted by Khebeln

Trion done better job in a year than Blizzard did in 5 years. And they only get better at it.

It feels like rift started as Themepark and moves more and more towards hybrid themepark/sandbox.

Its good move, as fun as wow was/is for some its getting old fast. After what they did to talent system in wow i dotn even want to go there anymore.

Getting old fast, the games 8 years old.

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Retief

Originally posted by Aviggin

What I've gathered from this article is that, Dynamic events aside, Rift is doing everything World of Warcraft is doing and adding housing where Blizzard is against it in order to keep people in the cities and such.

If WoW had some sort of dynamic events system, Rift wouldn't even be a blip on the radar, to be honest.

 

Only if WOW also upgraded their graphics engine, their character designs, their armor designs, weapons designs, gave their characters much better fighting animations, and tried to give them some semblence of personality.  Then, maybe.  I've waited three years for WOW to do just one of the above.  Now, only 7 days to go and my sub finally expires.  Freedom!

 

Rift is the wrong game to compare to WoW for this.  Rift's combat animations are subpar (most, not all of them), the weapon and armor designs arent a strong point, and their characters have zero personality.  And while Rift has better graphics, it kinda runs like ass.  Ill take the tradeoff in graphics for performance boost any day of the week.

Are you kidding me? Rift's animations, armor and weapons are definitely not subpar to WOW.   How could you even suggest that?  WOW is based on a 12 year old graphics engine, it's graphics are mushy, its gear suitable for Fred Flintstone, which matches WOW's character designs. As for running like ass.  Then again, when in WOW do you ever engage in 60 on 60 combat?  Even in Alterac Valley, battles are between small groups.  It's easier to be smooth when you keep things simple.  Then again, Pong was smooth.

Originally posted by Retief

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Retief

Originally posted by Aviggin

What I've gathered from this article is that, Dynamic events aside, Rift is doing everything World of Warcraft is doing and adding housing where Blizzard is against it in order to keep people in the cities and such.

If WoW had some sort of dynamic events system, Rift wouldn't even be a blip on the radar, to be honest.

 

Only if WOW also upgraded their graphics engine, their character designs, their armor designs, weapons designs, gave their characters much better fighting animations, and tried to give them some semblence of personality.  Then, maybe.  I've waited three years for WOW to do just one of the above.  Now, only 7 days to go and my sub finally expires.  Freedom!

 

Rift is the wrong game to compare to WoW for this.  Rift's combat animations are subpar (most, not all of them), the weapon and armor designs arent a strong point, and their characters have zero personality.  And while Rift has better graphics, it kinda runs like ass.  Ill take the tradeoff in graphics for performance boost any day of the week.

Are you kidding me? Rift's animations, armor and weapons are definitely not subpar to WOW.   How could you even suggest that?  WOW is based on a 12 year old graphics engine, it's graphics are mushy, its gear suitable for Fred Flintstone, which matches WOW's character designs. As for running like ass.  Then again, when in WOW do you ever engage in 60 on 60 combat?  Even in Alterac Valley, battles are between small groups.  It's easier to be smooth when you keep things simple.  Then again, Pong was smooth.

WoW's animations are better because they fit the combat better.  The game looks and feels more natural.  And their weapon and armor designs fit the style of the game.  Because you don't like the style doesnt make it bad.

And Rift's poor performance isnt just in "60 vs 60 battles", its in a raid, or running around town.  

Originally posted by Retief

That, and the fact that WOW is so easy my hunter didn't die once going from lvl 85 to 90.

Again, you are saying this in a *Rift* post?  Some specs in rift can kill 8 mobs at once with only one button...

I went through much the same thought process myself.  Rift in just over a year has given many more times more than WoW.  You'll never see an 11 month period without content being released with this game nor will you see Blizzard ever be as light on it's feet.  That's partially not WoW's fault.  It's built it's empire on raiding, dungeons, ease of use, arenas, and the fact that almost anything can run it.  It can't change too much up without taking away from what they consider their core. 

Blizzard isn't hungry.  While undenyably a great game company (love blizzard).  Their goal of late is to keep hold of their subs and that's it.  The thing is being a publicly owned company they HAVE to do everything they can to keep the status quo.  They know what WoW players want and stick with it and that works... sort of.(looks at the declining subs)

Trion is hungry..  They have bet their whole company on being a service and giving their players a tangable return for their monthly sub giving a previously unheard of rate of content delivery.. quality content at that.  They think outside the box for content on top of giving players the standard fare that so many demand.

I am not saying WoW is going to die or that Rift is going to somehow become the king...  I am a bit disgruntled with the hum drum rate of content releaseing from blizzard.. honestly it's terrible that Blizzard made players wait as long as it did just to require you to pay for an expansion at the end.  Sure I went back and enjoyed the new continent but how long will I stay?  Not sure.  Especially when I own GW2 and have a year's sub of Rift.  Is WoW "really" all that?  Maybe... it all depends on if they pull what they did last year again.. and that was after promising faster updates.

In the end an mmo is only as good as it's last update... and that value goes down quickly with time..  If WoW changes it's tune.. really.. as far as faster updates and such... Wow really could be the best in the industry but I'm not certain any longer if that's true.  Sub numbers or no.