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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Rift: Surpassing Azeroth

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195 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/15/12 1:26:48 PM#61
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Tamanous
Comparing two similar and mundane games does little to help those wanting much more out of their mmorpg. Trion could have been a great company with an original product instead of a great company with an intentional mmo clone.

WoW is a clone, being 41 years old I would have figured you could see that.  Also WoW is such a clone that tons of NPC's are real world people with reversed names, i.e. Harris Pilton. 

How's that for original?

 Wish I had $1 for everytime someone eludes to WoW being original and all other MMO's a clone.

i haven't played wow in many many years but wow did streamline the themepark MMO making it the first easily accessible(for everyone) MMO to hit the market. So to me it started the era of the more "accessible to everyone" themepark MMOs which is good and bad depending on who you talk to.. but to say wow wasn't original in anything is really obsurd

Guess you missed Everquest which launched 6 years before WoW.

because wow is a carbon copy of EQ.. please... it does borrow many features from it but as do most games of a similar genre as the years go by

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  MMOGamer71

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1526

10/15/12 1:29:24 PM#62
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Tamanous
Comparing two similar and mundane games does little to help those wanting much more out of their mmorpg. Trion could have been a great company with an original product instead of a great company with an intentional mmo clone.

WoW is a clone, being 41 years old I would have figured you could see that.  Also WoW is such a clone that tons of NPC's are real world people with reversed names, i.e. Harris Pilton. 

How's that for original?

 Wish I had $1 for everytime someone eludes to WoW being original and all other MMO's a clone.

i haven't played wow in many many years but wow did streamline the themepark MMO making it the first easily accessible(for everyone) MMO to hit the market. So to me it started the era of the more "accessible to everyone" themepark MMOs which is good and bad depending on who you talk to.. but to say wow wasn't original in anything is really obsurd

Guess you missed Everquest which launched 6 years before WoW.

because wow is a carbon copy of EQ.. please... it does borrow many features from it but as do most games of a similar genre as the years go by

Funny double standard logic you have there.

  dead2soon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 151

10/15/12 1:33:49 PM#63
Trion devs > Blizzard devs. This secet was outted a long time ago wasn't it? Blizzard has been lazy for years now and the players just accept it like mindless sheep. Truely baffles me.
  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3136

10/15/12 1:34:57 PM#64
I play both Rift and WoW, and I like the both.  I have to agree though, in the short time of Telara's exsistance, Trion has done alot more in the same time Azeroth's been around.  I sometimes feel sorry for Rift's developers.  I picture them in a run-down warehouse with out air conditioning, and having to work 80 hour weeks for 10 cents an hour (I know it's the total opposite).  With the amount of content they put out, it's either this, or all game developer's before Trion were lazy and worked 10 hours a week on content by 1 person lol.  If you like Rift or not, noone can deny that Trion does alot of work.  More than any other developer I've ever seen.
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/15/12 1:35:59 PM#65
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Tamanous
Comparing two similar and mundane games does little to help those wanting much more out of their mmorpg. Trion could have been a great company with an original product instead of a great company with an intentional mmo clone.

WoW is a clone, being 41 years old I would have figured you could see that.  Also WoW is such a clone that tons of NPC's are real world people with reversed names, i.e. Harris Pilton. 

How's that for original?

 Wish I had $1 for everytime someone eludes to WoW being original and all other MMO's a clone.

i haven't played wow in many many years but wow did streamline the themepark MMO making it the first easily accessible(for everyone) MMO to hit the market. So to me it started the era of the more "accessible to everyone" themepark MMOs which is good and bad depending on who you talk to.. but to say wow wasn't original in anything is really obsurd

Guess you missed Everquest which launched 6 years before WoW.

because wow is a carbon copy of EQ.. please... it does borrow many features from it but as do most games of a similar genre as the years go by

Funny double standard logic you have there.

how so? any game in history borrows something from games before of the same genre.. if not they wouldn't even be considered the same genre at all.. tell me how you could make a themepark MMO and not use some feature present from say EQ.......... So in EVE since I can gain new skills, gather resources, and kill other players it must be a clone because it's all been done before. This is basically like saying all FPS games are nothing more than DOOM clones because the core gameplay is similar.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Ghavrigg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/12
Posts: 720

10/15/12 2:11:20 PM#66
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Tamanous
Comparing two similar and mundane games does little to help those wanting much more out of their mmorpg. Trion could have been a great company with an original product instead of a great company with an intentional mmo clone.

WoW is a clone, being 41 years old I would have figured you could see that.  Also WoW is such a clone that tons of NPC's are real world people with reversed names, i.e. Harris Pilton. 

How's that for original?

 Wish I had $1 for everytime someone eludes to WoW being original and all other MMO's a clone.

i haven't played wow in many many years but wow did streamline the themepark MMO making it the first easily accessible(for everyone) MMO to hit the market. So to me it started the era of the more "accessible to everyone" themepark MMOs which is good and bad depending on who you talk to.. but to say wow wasn't original in anything is really obsurd

Guess you missed Everquest which launched 6 years before WoW.

because wow is a carbon copy of EQ.. please... it does borrow many features from it but as do most games of a similar genre as the years go by

Funny double standard logic you have there.

EDIT: Nevermind, I skimmed and posted too quickly.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

10/15/12 2:26:09 PM#67

"Certainly WoW might have more personality in its IP.  I can’t deny that."

 

This is absolutely huge though.  The fact that many, many people feel Rift and Telara are generic and bland is precisely a major factor in why Rift has terrible retention.  This piece matters so much and sadly Im not sure if Trion has addressed this yet.

 

"But what I see from my game pundit’s chair is that Trion is making leaps and bounds while Blizzard is content resting on their laurels. "

 

Are they really though?  Because I don't see this, at all.  I see the addition of scenarios and challenge modes as ways to play the game differently.  I see them taking some effort into making the gamer more personal with sunsong ranch.  

 

The pet battle system is like adding a whole game on top of a game.  

 

And they significantly expanded the daily sytem where there is more variety than ever and its really designed so that you work on a factior or two for a couple of weeks, and then move on and work on another faction or two (although some people feel the need to do everything, everyday, thats not the way the system was designed).  You arent working the same set of dailies the whole expansion, and there is a TON of different possible dailies on top of that.  In addition, you can get dungeon currency for these, as well as scenarios which mirrors Rift's philosophy.

 

Oh and they made exploration much more rewarding, with lore scrolls, nameds that are actually tougher than regular mobs with unique drop tables with fun loot, and just random fun things to find or perhaps something to sell for 100g.

 

On top of that, 5.1 is already on the way, and they are already making adjustments in it and also expanding on the popular elements of the expansion.  There is obviously pre planned stff, like the alliance/horde conflict coming to Krasarang, but ther eis very obviously a ton of dynamic updating going on too, based on feedback.

 

Im not saying MoP is a more impressive Expansion pack than Storm Legion, SL does seem to be as good as any expac since EQ2's prime and as big as any since EQ's prime, but to say Blizzard is resting on their laurels is just asinine.  They have been since halfway through WOTLK, but its pretty clear that they arent anymore.  

 

 
  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2860

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

10/15/12 3:10:30 PM#68

I use to enjoy WoW a lot mind you, but lets face the facts, WoW NEVER was the leader in anything except numbers. The reason it had so many 'good' elements was because it took those elements from other games. Rift stands as basically a new game in the WoW or EQ style. This ends up really making it stick out with the fact that WoW isn't revolutionary, its just a game that takes from others and makes its own.

 

WoW never was a 'leader' in introducing new things, and the fact theres new direct compeition , it only helps emphasize this point as Rift continues to add new options and features (Which we can also admit aren't ALL original, though they do a lot for those that aren't new to make it fit a good deal) and WoW is slowly hoping to take those features up to grab more though lets face it, they have just been dragging their own game down hill.

  ZizouX

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/17/11
Posts: 666

10/15/12 3:11:10 PM#69

Loved Rift for 5 months but one thing ruined it for me... Most of you will say it's a "stupid reason" but it was gamebreaking for me.  I never looked back.

 

I couldn't stand the Macro system.  You could design a macro that incorporated 6 abilities in one, based on a priority / timer system.  As DPS or Tank, you could spam 5-6 macros that combined many abilities without any consequences.

 

Most of you would say, "you don't have to do that," but the efficiency in doing so is unmistakable.  Trying getting owned in pvp without using the macros or doing pve content without doing that.

 

It just really killed an otherwise awesome game.  I'm a huge Hartman fan... i hope this game does really well even if i'm not going to be playing (Gw2 and FFXIV) will be my MMOS.

  tordurbar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/10
Posts: 399

10/15/12 3:24:52 PM#70
Though I go up and down in my zeal for Rift I stay subbed because Trion is the best company in the MMO genre for listening to their players and doing what they ask. Yes we don't get everything but that is probably just as well! I do like the way that Rift is moving in a sandpark direction. I do still play wow but the talent changes are a deal breaker for me. It is painful to go from the almost unlimited soul choices in Rift to the 18 talent choices in WOW. Anyway, I wish Trion the best of luck and am going to renew my one year sub next month.
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/15/12 3:27:04 PM#71
Originally posted by tordurbar
Though I go up and down in my zeal for Rift I stay subbed because Trion is the best company in the MMO genre for listening to their players and doing what they ask. Yes we don't get everything but that is probably just as well! I do like the way that Rift is moving in a sandpark direction. I do still play wow but the talent changes are a deal breaker for me. It is painful to go from the almost unlimited soul choices in Rift to the 18 talent choices in WOW. Anyway, I wish Trion the best of luck and am going to renew my one year sub next month.

seen this said a couple times.. what are the sandboxy features they are adding for the expansion? 

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

10/15/12 3:31:50 PM#72
Originally posted by Purutzil

I use to enjoy WoW a lot mind you, but lets face the facts, WoW NEVER was the leader in anything except numbers. 

 

WoW still is the leader in:

Combat fluidity

Presentation

 

probably the leader in game peformance too.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

10/15/12 3:33:30 PM#73
Originally posted by Aerowyn

seen this said a couple times.. what are the sandboxy features they are adding for the expansion? 

 

EQ2 style housing?

 

  Etherignis

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 242

10/15/12 3:33:48 PM#74
@JudgeUK u right rift does need flying mounts as big as rift is.
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/15/12 3:35:39 PM#75
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Aerowyn

seen this said a couple times.. what are the sandboxy features they are adding for the expansion? 

 

EQ2 style housing?

 

hows instanced housing sandboxy? i mean i think it's a great feature but it's still all instanced.. guess you could make an argument for it but if that's all then i wouldn't consider this game leaning sandpark at all..

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Etherignis

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 242

10/15/12 3:35:40 PM#76
  Z3R01

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

10/15/12 3:44:46 PM#77
Originally posted by gbooster

I'm sorry but there is a huge fundamental flaw with Rift that will always keep it behind WoW. That is the performance of Rift's engine and their network coding. I am talking from experience, I have played wow since 2004 and Rift since it was launched. Rift has serious coding issues that hold the game back, like having 1-2 second ability delays due to server lag. It makes trying to raid hard progression content impossible. If you doubt me go visit the Rift forums. People have been bitching about this since Ember Isle came out and the game engine never really performed that well since the launch. Also the combat is a big step down, as in smooth gameplay. No one has even come close to  how well WoW actually plays. That's the reason it's number one across the world.

 

Rift has some great things going for it, and it might even perform well when compared to other games like EQ2 or something, but if you are going to directly compare it to WoW, Rift is a huge step down in terms of smooth gameplay.

I agree that the engine is a hog... there's no reason Rift should run like it does. 

I disagree with the combat though. RIFTs combat is just as good as WoWs. If anything my melee setup on my rift rogue plays much better than my rogue in WoW... Combat wasn't the problem with rift, it was lack of variety when leveling alts and the game being hardcore raid or nothing at endgame.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1705

10/15/12 3:55:57 PM#78
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Tamanous
Comparing two similar and mundane games does little to help those wanting much more out of their mmorpg. Trion could have been a great company with an original product instead of a great company with an intentional mmo clone.


Comments like these make me laugh because you must be intentionally turning a blind eye. Even if you hate rift, you cant dent that trion has no fear changing and adding to their game. They have added not just content patches and tweaks to existing features, but entirely new systems and ways to play.

 

Its one of the main reasons i support trion with my rift sub. It is exciting to play an mmo that is constantly adding new features. I always feel like if theres something missing from the game that we would like to see, the devs hear us and are working on ways to implement it.

I do not hate Rift nor Wow. They are though fundamentally the same. Quest hub themeparks and I would go so far to say Wow does it even better than Rift. I have put my time into both games. I have no blind eye as I can see plainly what Rift is ... a themepark game patterned exactly after other game's successes and few original ideas of it's own. It has it's rift gimic and that is about it.

 

Because they do something well does that mean it is completely original? Do you not log into Rift and still go from the same quest hub to the next and often they are so close to each other you can see each from each other? Every new feature they are adding is a reactionary response to what they think the masses want and nothing to do with what their own vision is. That is why I will not support games like it any longer. If Rift is a massive success the next developer will just come along and make yet another themepark clone with no soul ... and for a game with so many souls it sure is soulless. Same quest systems, same pvp systems, same dungeon systems, same class systems done only slightly differently (not that I really care much about that ... more the outcome and it suffers from the melee weight issue along with character stiffness. Largely due to the engine I simply cannot stand used on mmo's).

 

Will the new expansion hide all it's stolen systems ... which is exactly what it intends to do? Players complained the world was too small ... so they make a massive world expansion update. Will it do anything differently though? WIll it not just be more quest hubs and zones you ultimately out level to set up raiding and never come back to other than raping rifts from lower level players? Will the end game ever be more than waiting for the next raid to master? Will the 3 way faction battles be nothing more than control point swaps and zerg armies fighting over made up point and token systems and an entirely seperate non-so-mini-minigame?

 

Rift is still a game where you log in with one gonad strapped to it's leveling path until it allows you to reach the areas you want to go when it deems it available ... not you (Strap yourselves in and hold on to your genitals boys and girls! We're going for a ride! YEE-HAW!). It matters not what it does differently or perfects better when it is all sugar coating over the core principle of the game. It is a themepark clone and that will never, ever change.

 

Enjoy the hell out of it if you want but it will not change what it is and that others are looking for something else. The essence of the argument is that it is pointless debating which game prevails or reach milestones of success. The entire point is that they both are the same beast and offer nothing to those not looking for a themepark templated clone. Many of us want all these developers to stop trying to sell us a blue car more "blue'r" than the last one. I don't want a #$%@ing blue car!

 

To me articles talking about how a game cloned after Wow is doing well against Wow is a pointless debate and the argument that they are succeeding by deviating from the original cloned concept is hilarious and saddening at the same time. Maybe they are building a blue-green car! Yay?

You stay sassy!

  itchmon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1543

10/15/12 4:11:29 PM#79

after seeing what CCP and Trion (and, lately, SqE) have done in terms of analyzing their mistakes and listening to feedback from their players, i find it hard to give my money to other companies for my MMO habit.

 

the Article's author has it nailed.  there's a humongous difference between playing a game where the devs tell you what is fun and a game where the developers ask the players what is fun.

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

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  Tyrranosaur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 283

10/15/12 4:16:38 PM#80
Staying away from WoW for about 16 months now plus being into Rifts for the last 6 months made an attempt at returning to my old haunt pre-MoP almost physically painful. Can't ever go back. My advice? Everyone who says Rift feels a bit off needs to take a break from WoW, accept that the muscle memory/.conditioning WoW has taught you that all MMOs must look and play Just Like This is an illusion of the mind, and then go try some other MMOs once you've gotten past the addictive shakes. Doesn't have to be Rift....try ANY MMO after kicking the WoW habit, it will open your eyes to the fact that sometimes it's got nothing to do with the quality of a title but entirely to do with the sheer inundation of it that leads to "liking" the game. In a Patty Hearst sort of way, if you catch my meaning. YMMV IMHO and all that.

Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)

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