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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » 3 a.m. It hit me what bothers me lol

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220 posts found
  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

10/15/12 1:53:08 PM#61
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by winter
 

  they have had bug fixes and changes to the rules to balance and to keep players form farming. I must have missed the new content if there was any added. Yes this month they will have a holiday event update aimed at getting players to spend money in the cash shop on gems. Granted it doesn't force players to spend caash as players can instead grind more to get gold for gems.

   Not saying Arenanets doing anything wrong. All F2P games need a source of income GW2's cash shop is no different. The term "free content updates" is somewhat loosely used when that content is aimed at pressuring players to spend money in the caash shop. I may have missed it just not seeing what great new content Arenanet has added to be bragging about just yet.

   Oh and EA/Bioware have teams of content devs as well doesn't mean they put out anything worth mentioning. bragging "Oh oh but they have a team!" is kinda lame till said team actually proves their worth and puts something worth mentioning out. 

guess you missed the sPVP updates coming as well with the halloween event and more read

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/events/halloween-2012

at very bottom Tyria Evolving

Unless Tyria is evolving towards a hybrid game, then *yawn*.  Sounds like the people making WildStar, the Rift team, and SOE are starting to *finally* see how the mmo genre is changing.  I hope ANet is making plans as well.

Rift hybrid? and what specifically are you talking about for SOE?


  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4153

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

10/15/12 2:04:30 PM#62
Originally posted by Homitu
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by deamian

actually looking for positive feedback

Letting my shiny new 7 week old puppy out at 3 a.m. back to bed and naturally my mind goes to something calm to go back to sleep. GW2 why not. I havn't been playing much but I have an 80 Ranger and a 38 Warrior and a few little alts. Plenty to absolutely love about the game, it's probably the most beautiful game graphically that has graced my monitor, the combat is fun to a degree, lots of content etc.

Here is what I feel is my bother. I don't feel self pride in my character, I don't care to show off, or prove to anyone else that I've been playing MMO's for 13 years and I feel like I know what im doing, but internally I like feeling that what I'm doing with my character means something a bit more than a transmuted armor piece etc. Joe bob who has played the mmo genre for a week has an elementalist who hits something for 2000 damage, and billy mmo johnson, yes his middle name has actually been changed to mmo, has played for ever, has the exact same character, and hits for the exact same amount because, every stat means something and all of the armor is the same.

Any tips to get out of the giant pot of everyone is exactly the same? I've always felt way more individualized in the other mmo's i've played, except in wow i looked like every other warrior because the artists are lazy :) Again the visual styles etc in gw2 are awesome, but I don't feel I can push my character stat wise i guess

 

themeparks for the most part don't really offer much to make you feel truely unique.. I honstly can't think of a single one that really made me go hey I'm the only person wearing this and doing this just really doesn't happen in these games.. Now where the customization and for me fun is, is playing with builds.. was same in Rift but just playing with all the options and coming up with new sets and combos that work best for your playstyle.. you could strive to get a legendary weapon if you really want to stick out. But overall it's just the nature of these games. What you sound like you want is more of a open sandbox type game where you can be whatever you want and truley make a unique character, themeparks really just aren't going to allow that in most cases.. even in TSW with its skill wheel you are going ot very hard pressed to be truley unique.

I think you (and a few other posters in this thread) are misidentifying what this poster is missing.  It's not the ability to be singularly unique but the ability to externally project symbols that indicate to other players what he has accomplished in the game.  These can be titles, gear (skins or stats), mounts, even something as silly and insignificant as pets.  WoW, the quintessential themepark, has these symbols in abundance.  

These symbols usually represent one of 2 things: either dedication to a cause and a huge time commitment, or a feat of skill.  At the moment, almost everything in GW2 falls under the former category.  Without titles, mounts and pets (or anything else I can think of), the only way to represent your accomplishments in game is through gear.  And all of your gear comes from one of the 3 currencies: dungeon tokens, gold, karma.  

Everything associated with crafting and the mystic forge is directly tied to gold.  So if anyone wears any item that comes from those sources, it indicates nothing more than they're wealthy.   Anything purchases with karma indicates nothing more than they've grinded events in Orr for days or play WvW a lot (poorly or otherwise).  And I'd argue that the only dungeon set that indicates any accomplishment at all right now is the set from Arah.  All other dungeon sets don't have any achievement significance to players when they see them because they each have easily farmable paths.    

It's also important to note that Anet isn't ingorant to the importance of such status symbols in MMOs (though the exact quote or blog post escapes me).  So just pointing players to another game or another genre isn't the resolution to the thread.

GW2 is a great game with an amazing launch foundation.  I, like the OP, do hope that the game adds more skill based feats to accomplish and hones its cururency system to issue rewards that reflect specific accomplishments.  And just to be clear, this doesn't have to infringe upon the fundamental casual design philosophy behind the game in any way.  Nor does it have to offer increased power as a reward to accomplish this goal.  Like I said, things like titles, skins, mounts, pets, whatever, achieve the same effect.    

Staying on the Themepark metaphor. We can say in WoW "been there, done that, got the T-Shirt" In GW2 it's "Been there, done that now gimme the T-Shirt"

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2160

10/15/12 2:05:02 PM#63
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by winter
 

  they have had bug fixes and changes to the rules to balance and to keep players form farming. I must have missed the new content if there was any added. Yes this month they will have a holiday event update aimed at getting players to spend money in the cash shop on gems. Granted it doesn't force players to spend caash as players can instead grind more to get gold for gems.

   Not saying Arenanets doing anything wrong. All F2P games need a source of income GW2's cash shop is no different. The term "free content updates" is somewhat loosely used when that content is aimed at pressuring players to spend money in the caash shop. I may have missed it just not seeing what great new content Arenanet has added to be bragging about just yet.

   Oh and EA/Bioware have teams of content devs as well doesn't mean they put out anything worth mentioning. bragging "Oh oh but they have a team!" is kinda lame till said team actually proves their worth and puts something worth mentioning out. 

guess you missed the sPVP updates coming as well with the halloween event and more read

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/events/halloween-2012

at very bottom Tyria Evolving

TY Aero. Why are there so many people that come here and post stuff with no clue on what they are talking about?? 

  maybe because some people post thinsg like "No mmo today allows anyoen to play a very unique character" hell guess I'm no worse off in my lack of information then others here. the difference being i admitted I might have missed the updates as compared to stating BS like there no way to be unique in any mmo as fact. and yes i don't spvp so it means less then jack to me to be honest i haven't heard anyone even you fans speak very glowingly of GW2's spvp

[mod edit]

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/15/12 2:07:53 PM#64
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by winter
 

  they have had bug fixes and changes to the rules to balance and to keep players form farming. I must have missed the new content if there was any added. Yes this month they will have a holiday event update aimed at getting players to spend money in the cash shop on gems. Granted it doesn't force players to spend caash as players can instead grind more to get gold for gems.

   Not saying Arenanets doing anything wrong. All F2P games need a source of income GW2's cash shop is no different. The term "free content updates" is somewhat loosely used when that content is aimed at pressuring players to spend money in the caash shop. I may have missed it just not seeing what great new content Arenanet has added to be bragging about just yet.

   Oh and EA/Bioware have teams of content devs as well doesn't mean they put out anything worth mentioning. bragging "Oh oh but they have a team!" is kinda lame till said team actually proves their worth and puts something worth mentioning out. 

guess you missed the sPVP updates coming as well with the halloween event and more read

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/events/halloween-2012

at very bottom Tyria Evolving

TY Aero. Why are there so many people that come here and post stuff with no clue on what they are talking about?? 

  maybe because some people post thinsg like "No mmo today allows anyoen to play a very unique character" hell guess I'm no worse off in my lack of information then others here. the difference being i admitted I might have missed the updates as compared to stating BS like there no way to be unique in any mmo as fact. and yes i don't spvp so it means less then jack to me to be honest i haven't heard anyone even you fans speak very glowingly of GW2's spvp

[mod edit]

who said that? [mod edit]

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

10/15/12 2:14:31 PM#65
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by winter
 

  they have had bug fixes and changes to the rules to balance and to keep players form farming. I must have missed the new content if there was any added. Yes this month they will have a holiday event update aimed at getting players to spend money in the cash shop on gems. Granted it doesn't force players to spend caash as players can instead grind more to get gold for gems.

   Not saying Arenanets doing anything wrong. All F2P games need a source of income GW2's cash shop is no different. The term "free content updates" is somewhat loosely used when that content is aimed at pressuring players to spend money in the caash shop. I may have missed it just not seeing what great new content Arenanet has added to be bragging about just yet.

   Oh and EA/Bioware have teams of content devs as well doesn't mean they put out anything worth mentioning. bragging "Oh oh but they have a team!" is kinda lame till said team actually proves their worth and puts something worth mentioning out. 

guess you missed the sPVP updates coming as well with the halloween event and more read

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/events/halloween-2012

at very bottom Tyria Evolving

TY Aero. Why are there so many people that come here and post stuff with no clue on what they are talking about?? 

  maybe because some people post thinsg like "No mmo today allows anyoen to play a very unique character" hell guess I'm no worse off in my lack of information then others here. the difference being i admitted I might have missed the updates as compared to stating BS like there no way to be unique in any mmo as fact. and yes i don't spvp so it means less then jack to me to be honest i haven't heard anyone even you fans speak very glowingly of GW2's spvp

[mod edit]

SInce you were misinformed about the patch its no surprise you are also misinformed about the state of spvp. So I don't really blame you for that, but just to let you in on the loop the game's spvp population is pretty big and mostly happy with what we have so far. Yes, there are missing parts but its in pretty good shape for how early it is. Before any OWPVP person comes in and tells me this is wrong because the pvp "has no meaning", spvp isn't meant to be like OWPVP.

 

I don't appreciate the childish comments but I guess than when in forums folks can't help themselves.


  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/15/12 2:20:41 PM#66
Originally posted by winter

  maybe because some people post thinsg like "No mmo today allows anyoen to play a very unique character" hell guess I'm no worse off in my lack of information then others here. the difference being i admitted I might have missed the updates as compared to stating BS like there no way to be unique in any mmo as fact. and yes i don't spvp so it means less then jack to me to be honest i haven't heard anyone even you fans speak very glowingly of GW2's spvp

[mod edit]

who said that?.. [mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

guess you don't understand what "for the most part" means... also I'm at work so can't game here sorry to dissapoint 

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

10/15/12 2:32:51 PM#67
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by deamian

actually looking for positive feedback

Letting my shiny new 7 week old puppy out at 3 a.m. back to bed and naturally my mind goes to something calm to go back to sleep. GW2 why not. I havn't been playing much but I have an 80 Ranger and a 38 Warrior and a few little alts. Plenty to absolutely love about the game, it's probably the most beautiful game graphically that has graced my monitor, the combat is fun to a degree, lots of content etc.

Here is what I feel is my bother. I don't feel self pride in my character, I don't care to show off, or prove to anyone else that I've been playing MMO's for 13 years and I feel like I know what im doing, but internally I like feeling that what I'm doing with my character means something a bit more than a transmuted armor piece etc. Joe bob who has played the mmo genre for a week has an elementalist who hits something for 2000 damage, and billy mmo johnson, yes his middle name has actually been changed to mmo, has played for ever, has the exact same character, and hits for the exact same amount because, every stat means something and all of the armor is the same.

Any tips to get out of the giant pot of everyone is exactly the same? I've always felt way more individualized in the other mmo's i've played, except in wow i looked like every other warrior because the artists are lazy :) Again the visual styles etc in gw2 are awesome, but I don't feel I can push my character stat wise i guess

 

themeparks for the most part don't really offer much to make you feel truely unique.. I honstly can't think of a single one that really made me go hey I'm the only person wearing this and doing this just really doesn't happen in these games.. Now where the customization and for me fun is, is playing with builds.. was same in Rift but just playing with all the options and coming up with new sets and combos that work best for your playstyle.. you could strive to get a legendary weapon if you really want to stick out. But overall it's just the nature of these games. What you sound like you want is more of a open sandbox type game where you can be whatever you want and truley make a unique character, themeparks really just aren't going to allow that in most cases.. even in TSW with its skill wheel you are going ot very hard pressed to be truley unique.

  Sorry that really is a load of BS. There are several good MMO's where you can be very unique. (ok maybe not WoW since they simplfied the skill trees but others) I'm not sure if your saying no MMO really allows one to be unique due lack of experience or just to cover one of GW2 short comings and defend it.

  Lets take DDO for example. What Race will you take? (there are 8 admittedly not a big difference from GW2) The races very much effect stats, skills, and enhancements. What class will you take or will you take multiple classes? There are 9 classes and some 10 current epic destinies. The big difference between DDO and GW2  is with 25 lvls one can decided to multi-class. My current highest is a lvl 22  16 Sorceror, 2 Monk, 2 Paladin, 2 epic,  3rd tier of Draconic avatar. Ones feat, and enhancement choices as well as spell choices (yes most magic users in DDO can't caast every spell so one has to actually decide what type of magic user you want to be even within your class) thats all before one even gets to equipement with which there is alot of coices as well. This all allows for a staggering amount of chocies that lead to some very unique builds.  All class have capstone enchancements as well as specialization enhancements  (will your druid be a werewolf assassin or a elemental spell caster, or Maybe a wise healer and friend of nature.) So there are benifits for going all 20 lvls in a single class as well as benifits to takeing different levels of different classes. Unlike WoW one can't say that there are only a few viable builds. In DDO if one wants to be a main member of the trinty one can do so ie go all or mostly fighter or cleric etc  if one wants to be able to do alittle of everything like in GW2 one can take say 6 fighter lvls 6 cleric levels and 6 of whatever you feel will DPS best and meld with the rest.

   Sorry for the wall of text but even that doesn't even really touch on the shear amount of possible combinations and ability to make your character unique. As such the whole "No MMO really allows one to be unique" is a copout arguement for the ill informed or unexperienced.

  In GW2 all characters are jacks of all trades, and masters of none. Some players feel bad when they can't be the healer the tank and the dpser all in one so Arenanet set out to allow everyone to do everything roughly equally, So everyone could feel special. Only problem is when everyones special no one is. Thus jack of all trades but master of none.

Written like a child of the themepark era....

You can't sit here and claim people are "ill informed or unexperienced" just because people disagree with you.  By now, many of us on this site have been gaming a very, very long time.  There are those older people like me who have been gaming online since there was an online to game on.  Before that we were gaming in deathmatch and coop mode over modems.  Before that we were.... well you get the picture.

The point is, no matter what outfit you put on, what race you pick, what class, etc., you are still like a thousand+ other players on your server, and even more across all the other servers.  In older games, you could really make a name for yourself with your guild, your actions, your crafting, your friendliness, your evil deeds, etc.  In those games, people actually looked at the name floating over your character, because they mattered.  I could write a book about this, but I'll just leave it at that.

I don't care what you say about today's themeparks.  They do nothing at all to bring people together, or to let individuals forge their own adventure through the game whether that means being a "hero" or not.  Frankly, the heros for me in the older games usually had nothing at all to do with combat.

  Ah the burnt out bitter vet speaks. First i probably have been playing as long if not longer then you. First comp was  a vic 20, then a commidore 64 back before there were graphics to speak of, island of kamshi before your time i imagine, and yes before that pen and paper role playing.

  SO perhaps you might want to stop with the holier then thou elder vet speak. if you say having houndreds of thoussands of choices that actually matter means nothing to you thats fine its your opinion, but speaking down to people like they are children because they don't agree with you is also BS.

  facts are though one can have a very unique character in some of todays MMO's just because you say stats, skills, abilited, spells, items don't make one unique and the only thing in your opinion that makes one unique is ones actions seems like a very limited point of view. Maybe you should look up the term unique' its means more then just actions and words, no matter how much you seek to narrow it to suite your arguement.

Ahh yes, the bitter vet insult.  A classic choice for your rebuttal.  Having grown up in a tech family since the 70's, I've seen and done it all.  Am I cooler now?

You are welcomed to your opinion.  Mine differs.  When it comes to MMOs, nothing you can say will convince me that today's themeparks are anything but shallow, force-fed yawn-fests design for "the masses" (and failing to attract them).

Good luck to you.  Sounds like you build some really unique characters...

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

10/15/12 2:44:17 PM#68
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Homitu
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by deamian

actually looking for positive feedback

Letting my shiny new 7 week old puppy out at 3 a.m. back to bed and naturally my mind goes to something calm to go back to sleep. GW2 why not. I havn't been playing much but I have an 80 Ranger and a 38 Warrior and a few little alts. Plenty to absolutely love about the game, it's probably the most beautiful game graphically that has graced my monitor, the combat is fun to a degree, lots of content etc.

Here is what I feel is my bother. I don't feel self pride in my character, I don't care to show off, or prove to anyone else that I've been playing MMO's for 13 years and I feel like I know what im doing, but internally I like feeling that what I'm doing with my character means something a bit more than a transmuted armor piece etc. Joe bob who has played the mmo genre for a week has an elementalist who hits something for 2000 damage, and billy mmo johnson, yes his middle name has actually been changed to mmo, has played for ever, has the exact same character, and hits for the exact same amount because, every stat means something and all of the armor is the same.

Any tips to get out of the giant pot of everyone is exactly the same? I've always felt way more individualized in the other mmo's i've played, except in wow i looked like every other warrior because the artists are lazy :) Again the visual styles etc in gw2 are awesome, but I don't feel I can push my character stat wise i guess

 

themeparks for the most part don't really offer much to make you feel truely unique.. I honstly can't think of a single one that really made me go hey I'm the only person wearing this and doing this just really doesn't happen in these games.. Now where the customization and for me fun is, is playing with builds.. was same in Rift but just playing with all the options and coming up with new sets and combos that work best for your playstyle.. you could strive to get a legendary weapon if you really want to stick out. But overall it's just the nature of these games. What you sound like you want is more of a open sandbox type game where you can be whatever you want and truley make a unique character, themeparks really just aren't going to allow that in most cases.. even in TSW with its skill wheel you are going ot very hard pressed to be truley unique.

I think you (and a few other posters in this thread) are misidentifying what this poster is missing.  It's not the ability to be singularly unique but the ability to externally project symbols that indicate to other players what he has accomplished in the game.  These can be titles, gear (skins or stats), mounts, even something as silly and insignificant as pets.  WoW, the quintessential themepark, has these symbols in abundance.  

These symbols usually represent one of 2 things: either dedication to a cause and a huge time commitment, or a feat of skill.  At the moment, almost everything in GW2 falls under the former category.  Without titles, mounts and pets (or anything else I can think of), the only way to represent your accomplishments in game is through gear.  And all of your gear comes from one of the 3 currencies: dungeon tokens, gold, karma.  

Everything associated with crafting and the mystic forge is directly tied to gold.  So if anyone wears any item that comes from those sources, it indicates nothing more than they're wealthy.   Anything purchases with karma indicates nothing more than they've grinded events in Orr for days or play WvW a lot (poorly or otherwise).  And I'd argue that the only dungeon set that indicates any accomplishment at all right now is the set from Arah.  All other dungeon sets don't have any achievement significance to players when they see them because they each have easily farmable paths.    

It's also important to note that Anet isn't ingorant to the importance of such status symbols in MMOs (though the exact quote or blog post escapes me).  So just pointing players to another game or another genre isn't the resolution to the thread.

GW2 is a great game with an amazing launch foundation.  I, like the OP, do hope that the game adds more skill based feats to accomplish and hones its cururency system to issue rewards that reflect specific accomplishments.  And just to be clear, this doesn't have to infringe upon the fundamental casual design philosophy behind the game in any way.  Nor does it have to offer increased power as a reward to accomplish this goal.  Like I said, things like titles, skins, mounts, pets, whatever, achieve the same effect.    

Staying on the Themepark metaphor. We can say in WoW "been there, done that, got the T-Shirt" In GW2 it's "Been there, done that now gimme the T-Shirt"

Which only demonstrates how a lot of players are only about gimme gimme gimme. That has nothing to do with the game and all with the current attitude players have, which isn't limited to GW2.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2528

10/15/12 3:00:54 PM#69
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by deamian

actually looking for positive feedback

Letting my shiny new 7 week old puppy out at 3 a.m. back to bed and naturally my mind goes to something calm to go back to sleep. GW2 why not. I havn't been playing much but I have an 80 Ranger and a 38 Warrior and a few little alts. Plenty to absolutely love about the game, it's probably the most beautiful game graphically that has graced my monitor, the combat is fun to a degree, lots of content etc.

Here is what I feel is my bother. I don't feel self pride in my character, I don't care to show off, or prove to anyone else that I've been playing MMO's for 13 years and I feel like I know what im doing, but internally I like feeling that what I'm doing with my character means something a bit more than a transmuted armor piece etc. Joe bob who has played the mmo genre for a week has an elementalist who hits something for 2000 damage, and billy mmo johnson, yes his middle name has actually been changed to mmo, has played for ever, has the exact same character, and hits for the exact same amount because, every stat means something and all of the armor is the same.

Any tips to get out of the giant pot of everyone is exactly the same? I've always felt way more individualized in the other mmo's i've played, except in wow i looked like every other warrior because the artists are lazy :) Again the visual styles etc in gw2 are awesome, but I don't feel I can push my character stat wise i guess

 

themeparks for the most part don't really offer much to make you feel truely unique.. I honstly can't think of a single one that really made me go hey I'm the only person wearing this and doing this just really doesn't happen in these games.. Now where the customization and for me fun is, is playing with builds.. was same in Rift but just playing with all the options and coming up with new sets and combos that work best for your playstyle.. you could strive to get a legendary weapon if you really want to stick out. But overall it's just the nature of these games. What you sound like you want is more of a open sandbox type game where you can be whatever you want and truley make a unique character, themeparks really just aren't going to allow that in most cases.. even in TSW with its skill wheel you are going ot very hard pressed to be truley unique.

  Sorry that really is a load of BS. There are several good MMO's where you can be very unique. (ok maybe not WoW since they simplfied the skill trees but others) I'm not sure if your saying no MMO really allows one to be unique due lack of experience or just to cover one of GW2 short comings and defend it.

  Lets take DDO for example. What Race will you take? (there are 8 admittedly not a big difference from GW2) The races very much effect stats, skills, and enhancements. What class will you take or will you take multiple classes? There are 9 classes and some 10 current epic destinies. The big difference between DDO and GW2  is with 25 lvls one can decided to multi-class. My current highest is a lvl 22  16 Sorceror, 2 Monk, 2 Paladin, 2 epic,  3rd tier of Draconic avatar. Ones feat, and enhancement choices as well as spell choices (yes most magic users in DDO can't caast every spell so one has to actually decide what type of magic user you want to be even within your class) thats all before one even gets to equipement with which there is alot of coices as well. This all allows for a staggering amount of chocies that lead to some very unique builds.  All class have capstone enchancements as well as specialization enhancements  (will your druid be a werewolf assassin or a elemental spell caster, or Maybe a wise healer and friend of nature.) So there are benifits for going all 20 lvls in a single class as well as benifits to takeing different levels of different classes. Unlike WoW one can't say that there are only a few viable builds. In DDO if one wants to be a main member of the trinty one can do so ie go all or mostly fighter or cleric etc  if one wants to be able to do alittle of everything like in GW2 one can take say 6 fighter lvls 6 cleric levels and 6 of whatever you feel will DPS best and meld with the rest.

   Sorry for the wall of text but even that doesn't even really touch on the shear amount of possible combinations and ability to make your character unique. As such the whole "No MMO really allows one to be unique" is a copout arguement for the ill informed or unexperienced.

  In GW2 all characters are jacks of all trades, and masters of none. Some players feel bad when they can't be the healer the tank and the dpser all in one so Arenanet set out to allow everyone to do everything roughly equally, So everyone could feel special. Only problem is when everyones special no one is. Thus jack of all trades but master of none.

Written like a child of the themepark era....

You can't sit here and claim people are "ill informed or unexperienced" just because people disagree with you.  By now, many of us on this site have been gaming a very, very long time.  There are those older people like me who have been gaming online since there was an online to game on.  Before that we were gaming in deathmatch and coop mode over modems.  Before that we were.... well you get the picture.

The point is, no matter what outfit you put on, what race you pick, what class, etc., you are still like a thousand+ other players on your server, and even more across all the other servers.  In older games, you could really make a name for yourself with your guild, your actions, your crafting, your friendliness, your evil deeds, etc.  In those games, people actually looked at the name floating over your character, because they mattered.  I could write a book about this, but I'll just leave it at that.

I don't care what you say about today's themeparks.  They do nothing at all to bring people together, or to let individuals forge their own adventure through the game whether that means being a "hero" or not.  Frankly, the heros for me in the older games usually had nothing at all to do with combat.

  Ah the burnt out bitter vet speaks. First i probably have been playing as long if not longer then you. First comp was  a vic 20, then a commidore 64 back before there were graphics to speak of, island of kamshi before your time i imagine, and yes before that pen and paper role playing.

  SO perhaps you might want to stop with the holier then thou elder vet speak. if you say having houndreds of thoussands of choices that actually matter means nothing to you thats fine its your opinion, but speaking down to people like they are children because they don't agree with you is also BS.

  facts are though one can have a very unique character in some of todays MMO's just because you say stats, skills, abilited, spells, items don't make one unique and the only thing in your opinion that makes one unique is ones actions seems like a very limited point of view. Maybe you should look up the term unique' its means more then just actions and words, no matter how much you seek to narrow it to suite your arguement.

Ahh yes, the bitter vet insult.  A classic choice for your rebuttal.  Having grown up in a tech family since the 70's, I've seen and done it all.  Am I cooler now?

You are welcomed to your opinion.  Mine differs.  When it comes to MMOs, nothing you can say will convince me that today's themeparks are anything but shallow, force-fed yawn-fests design for "the masses" (and failing to attract them).

Good luck to you.  Sounds like you build some really unique characters...

This is quite easy to settle.

You're both talking 2 completely different topics, but calling them the same thing.

Winter is talking making your character's capabilities unique. And he is correct, especially int he case of a gamelike DDO (which granted, has decades of background whichc ontributed to their system vs a brand new IP / system), that some themeparks offer the ability to make your character very unique as far as looks & build. No, you wont be the only person ever to have those same things, but you will be using 1 build out of many that will exist with people spread out across all of them, not locked into 1 or 2 builds in which everyone is the same or a system which allows everyone to have every possible skill. Where as in sandboxes you tend to have more of a "jack of all trades" thing going on, where everyone can develop the ability to be / do everything over time.

MindTrigger, you're talking making your character unique in more of the RP aspect, or giving your character a unique identity. You're right as well in that some older games, as well as newer sandboxes, allow you more freedom to make your character stand out as a "person". For example in Darkfall. Just because you make a "good" character, doesn't make your character "good" in any way. You could play him out as ne of the most evil bastards in the game and run murdering everyone you can find, or helping kill every "good" aligned person and only helping the evil. Or you can do the opposite and make an evil character, like an ork, and swing to the good side offering assistance to every dwarf, human, and elf you see and murdering your own people who try to attack them. Entire clans can function like this. And both clans and individuals can very much establish an identity within the game. I was in a clan myself in DF which was good aligned and was 100% anti-grifer, fighting to protect new players from all forms of griefing, and in an alliance which had holdings which were known as safe havens for all new players and vets willing to help them out. ur alliance also had a clan which was purely dedicated to newbies trying to learn the game and get a decent start, and after reaching a particular point in your progression you were kicked from guild and left to go out on your owna nd seek another now that you had developed your character. But in themeparks, you tend to be mor elocked in to a certain identity. If you pick the good faction, youre a good guy. You might act like a dick and try to play the "bad" guy, but limitations in the game tend to stop you from actually doing anything evil.

Of course some aspects of both can exist in both types of games, just as we have a crossover of many things in both types of games nowadays. But themeparks tend to excel more in 1 aspect and sandboxes in another. Some themepark games do allow you to cross over to the other side (like in Going Rogue for CoX), and some also have very strict limits on character builds and very little room for customization of your abilities. Some sandboxes might have limitations on your ability to establish an identity through strict alignment systems or other restrictive features while the rest of the game remains a sandbox, and some also have things like point / skill limits which cause it to be more like a themepark game in that you can only acquire X number of skills or get so many skills to X level of expertise which prevents the jack of all trades thing and forces you into more of a unique build depending on exactly what you want your character to do.

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

10/15/12 3:07:35 PM#70
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by winter

  Ah the burnt out bitter vet speaks. First i probably have been playing as long if not longer then you. First comp was  a vic 20, then a commidore 64 back before there were graphics to speak of, island of kamshi before your time i imagine, and yes before that pen and paper role playing.

  SO perhaps you might want to stop with the holier then thou elder vet speak. if you say having houndreds of thoussands of choices that actually matter means nothing to you thats fine its your opinion, but speaking down to people like they are children because they don't agree with you is also BS.

  facts are though one can have a very unique character in some of todays MMO's just because you say stats, skills, abilited, spells, items don't make one unique and the only thing in your opinion that makes one unique is ones actions seems like a very limited point of view. Maybe you should look up the term unique' its means more then just actions and words, no matter how much you seek to narrow it to suite your arguement.

Ahh yes, the bitter vet insult.  A classic choice for your rebuttal.  Having grown up in a tech family since the 70's, I've seen and done it all.  Am I cooler now?

You are welcomed to your opinion.  Mine differs.  When it comes to MMOs, nothing you can say will convince me that today's themeparks are anything but shallow, force-fed yawn-fests design for "the masses" (and failing to attract them).

Good luck to you.  Sounds like you build some really unique characters...

This is quite easy to settle.

You're both talking 2 completely different topics, but calling them the same thing.

Winter is talking making your character's capabilities unique. And he is correct, especially int he case of a gamelike DDO (which granted, has decades of background whichc ontributed to their system vs a brand new IP / system), that some themeparks offer the ability to make your character very unique as far as looks & build. No, you wont be the only person ever to have those same things, but you will be using 1 build out of many that will exist with people spread out across all of them, not locked into 1 or 2 builds in which everyone is the same or a system which allows everyone to have every possible skill. Where as in sandboxes you tend to have more of a "jack of all trades" thing going on, where everyone can develop the ability to be / do everything over time.

MindTrigger, you're talking making your character unique in more of the RP aspect, or giving your character a unique identity. You're right as well in that some older games, as well as newer sandboxes, allow you more freedom to make your character stand out as a "person". For example in Darkfall. Just because you make a "good" character, doesn't make your character "good" in any way. You could play him out as ne of the most evil bastards in the game and run murdering everyone you can find, or helping kill every "good" aligned person and only helping the evil. Or you can do the opposite and make an evil character, like an ork, and swing to the good side offering assistance to every dwarf, human, and elf you see and murdering your own people who try to attack them. Entire clans can function like this. And both clans and individuals can very much establish an identity within the game. I was in a clan myself in DF which was good aligned and was 100% anti-grifer, fighting to protect new players from all forms of griefing, and in an alliance which had holdings which were known as safe havens for all new players and vets willing to help them out. ur alliance also had a clan which was purely dedicated to newbies trying to learn the game and get a decent start, and after reaching a particular point in your progression you were kicked from guild and left to go out on your owna nd seek another now that you had developed your character. But in themeparks, you tend to be mor elocked in to a certain identity. If you pick the good faction, youre a good guy. You might act like a dick and try to play the "bad" guy, but limitations in the game tend to stop you from actually doing anything evil.

Of course some aspects of both can exist in both types of games, just as we have a crossover of many things in both types of games nowadays. But themeparks tend to excel more in 1 aspect and sandboxes in another. Some themepark games do allow you to cross over to the other side (like in Going Rogue for CoX), and some also have very strict limits on character builds and very little room for customization of your abilities. Some sandboxes might have limitations on your ability to establish an identity through strict alignment systems or other restrictive features while the rest of the game remains a sandbox, and some also have things like point / skill limits which cause it to be more like a themepark game in that you can only acquire X number of skills or get so many skills to X level of expertise which prevents the jack of all trades thing and forces you into more of a unique build depending on exactly what you want your character to do.

I wasn't referring only to RP elements.  I was referring to having the freedom to build and play a much more unique character in general.  These games slam everyone into a few boring classes we've seen a hundred times, then maybe give you a tree or wheel to "customize" with.  I just don't think it's good enough, and people are clearly growing sick of it.  What passes for customization today sucks, IMO.

However, with more options there are more chances for people to make unique characters that are not only their own in soul, but also remembered by other players in the game.  Some of the characters who had the largest impact on me in older games were crafters and other social players.  Had nothing to do with RP, which I rarely ever do unless a game makes it feel natural (like SWG did).

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Randayn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 593

10/15/12 3:33:59 PM#71
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by bcbully
 

On more thing. 27 days /played over a 3 month period and my wheel is about 70% complete. 

and yet people got 100% in about a week not sure what your point is there.. my point is i like TSW for its skill wheel but in the end it's still a trinity based game which turned me off the further down the wheel i got and the more options I unlocked.. you still basically get locked into one of the 3 roles.. just how the game was designed.  Nothing wrong with that just started losing its appeal to me once i got to blue mountain.

with that, I'd say it's a totally different argument then.  Trinity vs. no trinity. 

not really because to me trinity system is what limits freedom of choice in builds.. yes you could make hybrids as I did many times in Rift but in the end you end up greatly gimping part of whatever trinity role you are trying to fill.. 

the issue with removing the trinity is you put severe limitations on other aspects of the game, which in turn removes alot of, not all, but alot of the individuality in characters.  The line in the sand is there for a reason....take it away and nothing seperates itself.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/15/12 3:49:20 PM#72
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by bcbully
 

On more thing. 27 days /played over a 3 month period and my wheel is about 70% complete. 

and yet people got 100% in about a week not sure what your point is there.. my point is i like TSW for its skill wheel but in the end it's still a trinity based game which turned me off the further down the wheel i got and the more options I unlocked.. you still basically get locked into one of the 3 roles.. just how the game was designed.  Nothing wrong with that just started losing its appeal to me once i got to blue mountain.

with that, I'd say it's a totally different argument then.  Trinity vs. no trinity. 

not really because to me trinity system is what limits freedom of choice in builds.. yes you could make hybrids as I did many times in Rift but in the end you end up greatly gimping part of whatever trinity role you are trying to fill.. 

the issue with removing the trinity is you put severe limitations on other aspects of the game, which in turn removes alot of, not all, but alot of the individuality in characters.  The line in the sand is there for a reason....take it away and nothing seperates itself.

not sure how it really puts in any limitations or any more limitations than a trinity based system.. just merely changes how things are done that's all

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Ryowulf

Elite Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 664

10/15/12 3:56:38 PM#73

Here's the thing, no matter how many choices you give its very hard maybe impossible to make them all equal. Therefor certain builds will just be better than others, so many people will go for those. Sure you could 'gimp' yourself, but most people aren't into that.

TSW? Tor? WoW? Rifts? You aren't unique. Its not the class you are playing or how high your skills are.  The people who are unique, made themselves that way.  Look at shooters. You have people who's names are known (to players within that game) and yet their character is basically the same as lots of other people.

GW2 isn't a game where the person playing longer than you will be better.

In other words, don't ask a game to place you on a pedestal, put yourself on it. 

Billy MMO can still be better than Joe nobody, but the playing field will be equal.  On the other hand, maybe Joe, who has a better understanding of his class and its skills will win instead.

  Randayn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 593

10/15/12 4:01:38 PM#74
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by bcbully
 

On more thing. 27 days /played over a 3 month period and my wheel is about 70% complete. 

and yet people got 100% in about a week not sure what your point is there.. my point is i like TSW for its skill wheel but in the end it's still a trinity based game which turned me off the further down the wheel i got and the more options I unlocked.. you still basically get locked into one of the 3 roles.. just how the game was designed.  Nothing wrong with that just started losing its appeal to me once i got to blue mountain.

with that, I'd say it's a totally different argument then.  Trinity vs. no trinity. 

not really because to me trinity system is what limits freedom of choice in builds.. yes you could make hybrids as I did many times in Rift but in the end you end up greatly gimping part of whatever trinity role you are trying to fill.. 

the issue with removing the trinity is you put severe limitations on other aspects of the game, which in turn removes alot of, not all, but alot of the individuality in characters.  The line in the sand is there for a reason....take it away and nothing seperates itself.

not sure how it really puts in any limitations or any more limitations than a trinity based system.. just merely changes how things are done that's all

1. Limits the AI abilities/strategy when developing Raid/dungeon encounters

2. Limits ability to be different from other classes - the reason being is that you can have a tank warrior and a dps warrior in most games, a healing pally (or whatever a game might call it) or a dps/tank pally...but without trinity, rather than making a few different builds of each class, you limit it to whatever the best build is.  I understand that each dungeon in GW2 requires a different strat, but that's even more limiting because now you HAVE to have said skills equipped to win.  It's extremely limiting in an MMORPG.  Single player game, not at all....MMORPG, alot

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/15/12 4:04:42 PM#75
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by bcbully
 

On more thing. 27 days /played over a 3 month period and my wheel is about 70% complete. 

and yet people got 100% in about a week not sure what your point is there.. my point is i like TSW for its skill wheel but in the end it's still a trinity based game which turned me off the further down the wheel i got and the more options I unlocked.. you still basically get locked into one of the 3 roles.. just how the game was designed.  Nothing wrong with that just started losing its appeal to me once i got to blue mountain.

with that, I'd say it's a totally different argument then.  Trinity vs. no trinity. 

not really because to me trinity system is what limits freedom of choice in builds.. yes you could make hybrids as I did many times in Rift but in the end you end up greatly gimping part of whatever trinity role you are trying to fill.. 

the issue with removing the trinity is you put severe limitations on other aspects of the game, which in turn removes alot of, not all, but alot of the individuality in characters.  The line in the sand is there for a reason....take it away and nothing seperates itself.

not sure how it really puts in any limitations or any more limitations than a trinity based system.. just merely changes how things are done that's all

1. Limits the AI abilities/strategy when developing Raid/dungeon encounters

2. Limits ability to be different from other classes - the reason being is that you can have a tank warrior and a dps warrior in most games, a healing pally (or whatever a game might call it) or a dps/tank pally...but without trinity, rather than making a few different builds of each class, you limit it to whatever the best build is.  I understand that each dungeon in GW2 requires a different strat, but that's even more limiting because now you HAVE to have said skills equipped to win.  It's extremely limiting in an MMORPG.  Single player game, not at all....MMORPG, alot

this is not true at all and has been proven numerous times you can watch multiple runs of dungeons on youtube using completely differn't builds.. some encounters are much easier with certain abilities but haven't seen where any  is 100% required at all. That's sort of the whole sell for a non trinity based system and actually how trinity is even more limiting in this regard. And curious what are the "best builds" for GW2 i'd assume by now everyone would know them

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  lathaan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/04
Posts: 464

10/15/12 4:11:24 PM#76
well, didnt we know tat e-peeners will have serious problems in GW2 for years? go pvp and show how equal you are to anyone ^^ and no, your shiney sword will help you not a bit. Must be hard to be defined by your skill as a player all of a sudden :P
  Badaboom

Elite Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2279

10/15/12 4:30:48 PM#77
Originally posted by Randayn

 

1. Limits the AI abilities/strategy when developing Raid/dungeon encounters

2. Limits ability to be different from other classes - the reason being is that you can have a tank warrior and a dps warrior in most games, a healing pally (or whatever a game might call it) or a dps/tank pally...but without trinity, rather than making a few different builds of each class, you limit it to whatever the best build is.  I understand that each dungeon in GW2 requires a different strat, but that's even more limiting because now you HAVE to have said skills equipped to win.  It's extremely limiting in an MMORPG.  Single player game, not at all....MMORPG, alot

I disagree there.  A trinity system limits what you can do and makes for a very delicate balancing process.

With the GW2 current system they have a lot more freedom.

For point #2, In a trinity system, people want the best class for the role.  So while you technically can be a DPS pally...you were usually laughed at and told to heal or tank.  Not saying that's right.

GW2's system allows for a lot of unique builds, but its not perfect.  I tried to join a group with my Thief and they told me they want a tankier class.  That was ok though as I wouldnt want to play in a group with that mentality.

  Bad.dog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 858

10/15/12 4:54:18 PM#78
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by Randayn

 

1. Limits the AI abilities/strategy when developing Raid/dungeon encounters

2. Limits ability to be different from other classes - the reason being is that you can have a tank warrior and a dps warrior in most games, a healing pally (or whatever a game might call it) or a dps/tank pally...but without trinity, rather than making a few different builds of each class, you limit it to whatever the best build is.  I understand that each dungeon in GW2 requires a different strat, but that's even more limiting because now you HAVE to have said skills equipped to win.  It's extremely limiting in an MMORPG.  Single player game, not at all....MMORPG, alot

I disagree there.  A trinity system limits what you can do and makes for a very delicate balancing process.

With the GW2 current system they have a lot more freedom.

For point #2, In a trinity system, people want the best class for the role.  So while you technically can be a DPS pally...you were usually laughed at and told to heal or tank.  Not saying that's right.

GW2's system allows for a lot of unique builds, but its not perfect.  I tried to join a group with my Thief and they told me they want a tankier class.  That was ok though as I wouldnt want to play in a group with that mentality.

We have been playing a trinity system for the last 15 years ...perhaps it's time to move on

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1833

10/15/12 5:01:04 PM#79

OT: A trinity system is much despised for numerous reasons, but it does provide the game with clear cut class archetypes.  I'd much prefer an alternative, but simply removing it rather than replacing it doesn't seem a better solution.

 

Edit: also, how have we been playing trinity-based MMOs for 15 years?  I recall them being introduced around the time of EQ but that's roughly twelve years.

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  User Deleted
10/15/12 5:01:22 PM#80
Originally posted by deamian

actually looking for positive feedback

Letting my shiny new 7 week old puppy out at 3 a.m. back to bed and naturally my mind goes to something calm to go back to sleep. GW2 why not. I havn't been playing much but I have an 80 Ranger and a 38 Warrior and a few little alts. Plenty to absolutely love about the game, it's probably the most beautiful game graphically that has graced my monitor, the combat is fun to a degree, lots of content etc.

Here is what I feel is my bother. I don't feel self pride in my character, I don't care to show off, or prove to anyone else that I've been playing MMO's for 13 years and I feel like I know what im doing, but internally I like feeling that what I'm doing with my character means something a bit more than a transmuted armor piece etc. Joe bob who has played the mmo genre for a week has an elementalist who hits something for 2000 damage, and billy mmo johnson, yes his middle name has actually been changed to mmo, has played for ever, has the exact same character, and hits for the exact same amount because, every stat means something and all of the armor is the same.

Any tips to get out of the giant pot of everyone is exactly the same? I've always felt way more individualized in the other mmo's i've played, except in wow i looked like every other warrior because the artists are lazy :) Again the visual styles etc in gw2 are awesome, but I don't feel I can push my character stat wise i guess

 

Meh I get this feeling with the Dye System and different skins of armor.

 

BTW if anyone has a great 3 color scheme to match the Ebonhawke Greatsword, let me know.  Abyss, Mithrill, and Ash isnt cutting it.

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