Originally posted by strangepower

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"It's really funny how if you dont agree with the popular vote, you are deemed to have a personality disorder"

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Some one was outed and now their feelings are hurt.

Sanity has always been defined by the majority.

While there is no other reasonable way to establish a definition, this does tend to trigger some people's "rage against the machine" hubris.

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Originally posted by Randayn

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Originally posted by strangepower Lil buddy "commercialization" doesn't necessarily mean it was on commercials. You accuse me of over generalizing... Seriously, the more you post the more you reveal you have nothing.

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there are actually a few definitions (that vary in a subtle way)...the one I'm pointing out is this:

"to emphasize the profitable aspects of, especially at the expense of quality: to commercialize one's artistic talent."

Ok "lil buddy"?  Now, can you stop trying to talk down to me with your fun words and actually make a case for what your thinking?

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You are really reaching at this point, it's obvious you have have issues by your own admittance.

And despite me and others telling you the truth you are too wrapped up in your delusions.

Originally posted by strangepower

 

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Originally posted by Randayn

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Originally posted by strangepower Lil buddy "commercialization" doesn't necessarily mean it was on commercials. You accuse me of over generalizing... Seriously, the more you post the more you reveal you have nothing.

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there are actually a few definitions (that vary in a subtle way)...the one I'm pointing out is this:

 

"to emphasize the profitable aspects of, especially at the expense of quality: to commercialize one's artistic talent."

Ok "lil buddy"?  Now, can you stop trying to talk down to me with your fun words and actually make a case for what your thinking?

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You are really reaching at this point, it's obvious you have have issues by your own admittance.

And despite me and others telling you the truth you are too wrapped up in your delusions.

"lil buddy"....come on now...focus...stay with me and read the orange text.  You are still failing to make any sense of your own thoughts.  Instead you now try to psychologically attack me.  Good thing I detest psychology, or I might actually fall for it.

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  Originally posted by strangepower Lil buddy "commercialization" doesn't necessarily mean it was on commercials. You accuse me of over generalizing... Seriously, the more you post the more you reveal you have nothing. there are actually a few definitions (that vary in a subtle way)...the one I'm pointing out is this:   "to emphasize the profitable aspects of, especially at the expense of quality: to commercialize one's artistic talent." Ok "lil buddy"?  Now, can you stop trying to talk down to me with your fun words and actually make a case for what your thinking?   You are really reaching at this point, it's obvious you have have issues by your own admittance. And despite me and others telling you the truth you are too wrapped up in your delusions. [mod edit]

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I did, let me repeat... you were outed, now you are projecting. You lack life experience and subsequent perspective.

Pop culture is in MMO's, and has been for many years, yet that doesn't make them pop in themselves.

[mod edit]

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by XAPGames

I don't see a clear pop culture connection.  If anything, the trend is (was) commercialization of a niche element in computer gaming for mainstream consumption.

 

Injection of "pop culture"....thanks, you explained it better than i did...although you disagree with me??

My disagreement is that I think you're at least 4 years late in your discovery (Video from 2007) and the implication that MMORPGs have become popular because they have pop-culture references.

I don't think that it is happening.  I think it already did happen.  If there is any trend, it might be away from the commercialization now that the western corporate world isn't making huge money any longer.

Originally posted by strangepower

 

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  Originally posted by strangepower Lil buddy "commercialization" doesn't necessarily mean it was on commercials. You accuse me of over generalizing... Seriously, the more you post the more you reveal you have nothing. there are actually a few definitions (that vary in a subtle way)...the one I'm pointing out is this:   "to emphasize the profitable aspects of, especially at the expense of quality: to commercialize one's artistic talent." Ok "lil buddy"?  Now, can you stop trying to talk down to me with your fun words and actually make a case for what your thinking?   You are really reaching at this point, it's obvious you have have issues by your own admittance. And despite me and others telling you the truth you are too wrapped up in your delusions."lil buddy"....come on now...focus...stay with me and read the orange text.  You are still failing to make any sense of your own thoughts.  Instead you now try to psychologically attack me.  Good thing I detest psychology, or I might actually fall for it.

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I did, let me repeat... you were outed, now you are projecting. You lack life experience and subsequent perspective.

Pop culture is in MMO's, and has been for many years, yet that doesn't make them pop in themselves.

Got it lil buddy? That's it, that't the point that me and others have established with you.

You keep making inane statements like

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Good thing I detest psychology

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and revealing way too much about yourself.

 

Dare I suggest you go and take your medication?

Oh and yes... Care Bears are a major part of American Pop Culture, in case you didn't know... since your stance on Pop Culture is as it is.

Again with attacks...are you ready to actually make meaningful argument....although the fact that you are willing to make your presence known on my post excites me (because I post these things in order to spawn debate), you are bringing nothing.  It's almost dissapointing in a way.

Originally posted by XAPGames

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by XAPGames

I don't see a clear pop culture connection.  If anything, the trend is (was) commercialization of a niche element in computer gaming for mainstream consumption.

 

Injection of "pop culture"....thanks, you explained it better than i did...although you disagree with me??

 

My disagreement is that I think you're at least 4 years late in your discovery (Video from 2007) and the implication that MMORPGs have become popular because they have pop-culture references.

 

I don't think that it is happening.  I think it already did happen.  If there is any trend, it might be away from the commercialization now that the western corporate world isn't making huge money any longer.

haha....Oh, I agree with that 100%.  I just think that at this time, it has gotten to the point of no return in some ways.

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Again with attacks...are you ready to actually make meaningful argument....although the fact that you are willing to make your presence known on my post excites me (because I post these things in order to spawn debate), you are bringing nothing.  It's almost dissapointing in a way.

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I have provided you with an argument, yet because you don't have real reply you keep dancing around it, distracting by accusing me of attacking you when I have repeated my point several times and you continue to ignore it.

You repeatedly present Red Herrings to take away from the fact that I have answered you and you are effectively plugging your ears and refusing to listen to reason.

Once again in full glory my response, if you cant respond to that and keep sending out the Red Herrings its obvious you are a lost cause.

You ready?

Here it comes...

Pop culture is in MMO's, and has been for many years, yet that doesn't make them pop in themselves.

That's it, that't the point that me and others have established with/for you.

Originally posted by Randayn

My understanding is that the "pop" culture is a bunch of crowd pleasing, want it easy and soft, commoner mentality people who make up the majority fo the population.  They love what "we" (the real MMORPG crowd do), but would also "love" to have it simplified for them since they cannot comprehend on the same level.  Thus we have games such as WoW that included such characters as He-Man and stupid slapstick jokes that weren't funny (except for those that watch too much tv)....the new MMORPG's feel like Brittany Spears albums or even worse, Justin Beiber albums...easy to listen, with no reason to think as brain functionality was not included.  

Why have we gotten to this (low) level with a genre that seemed to be a world of it's own?  Why did we let such a plague ruin our exhistence...call me a drama queen/king....call me anything you want...the pop culture has invaded...and MMORPG's will never be the same because of it....

Yeah but any time a group of people decides on what is the "best" and most  "superior" way of being and it just so happens to be "their" group that embodies these traints, it then points to a whole other issue.

To put it on persprective, I have friends who think that video games are for those who are not on a higher level and that every moment you play one of these things you are throwing away your time which could actually be used for doing something that is more elevated, important, more fulfilling and "actually" meangingful.

You then get everyone declaring how awesome they are and pointing at a group only to announce how inferior they are.

Isn't the time for this behavior to come to an end?

edit: and to add "aren't video games pop culture"?

Originally posted by Randayn

 

haha....Oh, I agree with that 100%.  I just think that at this time, it has gotten to the point of no return in some ways.

Ditto.  So do I.  I don't think we'll ever see another 10 million subscription MMORPG.  I think a 2 million box sales subscription game will become the norm for a new hot game and sales for a moderate hit will fall to a couple hundred thousand.

If I can be so bold as to share an observation, I think SWTOR killed the chances of any more huge-budget MMORPGs.  I think it will send the message that huge-budget mass appeal MMORPGs are too risky to finance.  I think we'll see more mass appeal games; In that I have little doubt.  Just ones more cheaply made.

Quoting a name of an 80's band.  "Pop will eat itself".  I think it has in MMORPGs.  ZOMG I made an ancient pop-culture reference *grin*.

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Originally posted by XAPGames

Quoting a name of an 80's band.  "Pop will eat itself".  I think it has in MMORPGs.  ZOMG I made an ancient pop-culture reference *grin*.

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Frankie Says Relax!

Originally posted by strangepower

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Quoting a name of an 80's band.  "Pop will eat itself".  I think it has in MMORPGs.  ZOMG I made an ancient pop-culture reference *grin*.

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Frankie Says Relax!

Good memories!  Gah... now I'll have to break out my 80s stuff.  Where'd I put that Haircut 100 album?

Originally posted by strangepower

 

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Again with attacks...are you ready to actually make meaningful argument....although the fact that you are willing to make your presence known on my post excites me (because I post these things in order to spawn debate), you are bringing nothing.  It's almost dissapointing in a way.

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No attacks, stop being hyper sensitive, I just call it as I see it. I am going purely off your own statements.

 

I have provided you with an argument, yet because you don't have real reply you keep dancing around it, distracting by accusing me of attacking you when I have repeated my point several times and you continue to ignore it.

You repeatedly present Red Herrings to take away from the fact that I have answered you and you are effectively plugging your ears and refusing to listen to reason.

Once again in full glory my response, if you cant respond to that and keep sending out the Red Herrings its obvious you are a lost cause.

You ready?

Here it comes...

Pop culture is in MMO's, and has been for many years, yet that doesn't make them pop in themselves.

That's it, that't the point that me and others have established with/for you.

So what you are saying is that a game like Meridian 59, Anarchy Online, UO actually had the same commercial/pop appeal as the games that are being released today?  That these games were intentially made (much like ones today) to appeal to the masses, even if it meant a hit in the quality department?  If that's your argument, than it's a bad one.  

"No Attacks"? - "lil buddy", "stop being hyper sensitive", "if you cant respond to that and keep sending out the Red Herrings its obvious you are a lost cause.", "refusing to listen to reason"

Im not sensitive at all and really dont care if you throw some jabs in every once in a while, but I was hoping to see some weight behind your statements...even an argument would have been good enough.  

I've already answered your argument that pop culture is thrown into games, but the games are not actually a part of pop culture.  I disagree and have made my statements.  You have done nothing but disagree the entire time with no argument.

I want you to argue it with me....I want you to bring something to the table, but you don't.  

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Originally posted by Randayn

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Originally posted by strangepower  

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Again with attacks...are you ready to actually make meaningful argument....although the fact that you are willing to make your presence known on my post excites me (because I post these things in order to spawn debate), you are bringing nothing.  It's almost dissapointing in a way.

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No attacks, stop being hyper sensitive, I just call it as I see it. I am going purely off your own statements.   I have provided you with an argument, yet because you don't have real reply you keep dancing around it, distracting by accusing me of attacking you when I have repeated my point several times and you continue to ignore it. You repeatedly present Red Herrings to take away from the fact that I have answered you and you are effectively plugging your ears and refusing to listen to reason. Once again in full glory my response, if you cant respond to that and keep sending out the Red Herrings its obvious you are a lost cause. You ready? Here it comes... Pop culture is in MMO's, and has been for many years, yet that doesn't make them pop in themselves. That's it, that't the point that me and others have established with/for you.

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So what you are saying is that a game like Meridian 59, Anarchy Online, UO actually had the same commercial/pop appeal as the games that are being released today?  That these games were intentially made (much like ones today) to appeal to the masses, even if it meant a hit in the quality department?  If that's your argument, than it's a bad one.  

"No Attacks"? - "lil buddy", "stop being hyper sensitive", "if you cant respond to that and keep sending out the Red Herrings its obvious you are a lost cause.", "refusing to listen to reason"

Im not sensitive at all and really dont care if you throw some jabs in every once in a while, but I was hoping to see some weight behind your statements...even an argument would have been good enough.  

I've already answered your argument that pop culture is thrown into games, but the games are not actually a part of pop culture.  I disagree and have made my statements.  You have done nothing but disagree the entire time with no argument.

I want you to argue it with me....I want you to bring something to the table, but you don't.  

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I have, and I cant help you see it, ignorance is bliss.

You admit that you disagree, and that's your right.

I still say with more life experience you will understand better, until then, enjoy life "as you see it."

MMORPGs?  Too mainstream.

Full loot sandbox PVP MMORPGs?  Too mainstream.

MMORPG.com?  Yep, too mainstream as well.

I'm so hipster that real life hipsters and MMORPG.com hipsters are too mainstream for me.

Oh yeah, and I'm so cool and edgy because I prefer a different type of massively multiplayer online role playing game than you do.  That obviously makes my views correct and everyone else's wrong.

Originally posted by Randayn

My understanding is that the "pop" culture is a bunch of crowd pleasing, want it easy and soft, commoner mentality people who make up the majority fo the population.  They love what "we" (the real MMORPG crowd do), but would also "love" to have it simplified for them since they cannot comprehend on the same level.  Thus we have games such as WoW that included such characters as He-Man and stupid slapstick jokes that weren't funny (except for those that watch too much tv)....the new MMORPG's feel like Brittany Spears albums or even worse, Justin Beiber albums...easy to listen, with no reason to think as brain functionality was not included.  

Why have we gotten to this (low) level with a genre that seemed to be a world of it's own?  Why did we let such a plague ruin our exhistence...call me a drama queen/king....call me anything you want...the pop culture has invaded...and MMORPG's will never be the same because of it....

You keep yourself warm at night with that. The mass population would love to be like ultra-nerds into hardcore computer gaming.

I find this to be a very insulting way of stating your opinion. You are not a gaming god, no one thinks you are special because of it. You cannot pidgeon hole players into you conceptions. WoW has 9+ million subscribers. You imply that it is some sort of homogenous group. Would you say that New York City, a population of 9+ million are all the same type of people? The hedge fund guy on wall street and the convenience store worker in Harlem? 

Fine, you don't like the humor.

Fine, you don't like convenience and accessibility that games have today.

Fine, you felt more special when it was only the uber-nerd who could or would want to invest 80+ hours a week to become 'leet'.

I know there are hundreds of thousands of hardcore, old school gamers out there. 

But as long as there are MILLIONS of gamers out there NOT like you, guess where the product development focus will be?

The best you can hope for is a future where there are:

-many games developed for the mass population

-a few games for the hardcore

----------------------------------------------------

In the future, if you find that you don't like something. Try not to put other people down to make you feel special. 

Disliking WoW and easily accessible games does not mean you are above the fray; that you are elite, that only players 'like you' are real -  It means you don't share the majority opinion. 

And I will gaurentee you, with 9+ million subscribers, WoW has subscribers that were everybit as hardcore as you were back in the day. They are everybit as hardcore now, playing WoW as you were with whatever 'superior' game you played - and lastly there are probably those playing wow that come off as just as arrogant and elitist in their nerd-rage tirades about  players who aren't like them - talking about how the mass population is ruining everything about gaming.

______________________________

It's time for hardcore players who don't like WoW to stop bashing on rpg convenience games. No one forced you to buy it. No one forced you to play it. You know what you like and it still exists.

Go play EVE

Go play EQ

Go play Vangaurd

Go play DAoC

Or whatever game you think is indicative of a 'real game'.

Those games are still there, still have hardcore guilds and still play those games hardcore. 

The industry didn't leave you behind - you left the games the industry designed for your playstyle.

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Randayn

My understanding is that the "pop" culture is a bunch of crowd pleasing, want it easy and soft, commoner mentality people who make up the majority fo the population.  They love what "we" (the real MMORPG crowd do), but would also "love" to have it simplified for them since they cannot comprehend on the same level.  Thus we have games such as WoW that included such characters as He-Man and stupid slapstick jokes that weren't funny (except for those that watch too much tv)....the new MMORPG's feel like Brittany Spears albums or even worse, Justin Beiber albums...easy to listen, with no reason to think as brain functionality was not included.  

Why have we gotten to this (low) level with a genre that seemed to be a world of it's own?  Why did we let such a plague ruin our exhistence...call me a drama queen/king....call me anything you want...the pop culture has invaded...and MMORPG's will never be the same because of it....

You keep yourself warm at night with that. The mass population would love to be like ultra-nerds into hardcore computer gaming.

I find this to be a very insulting way of stating your opinion. You are not a gaming god, no one thinks you are special because of it. You cannot pidgeon hole players into you conceptions. WoW has 9+ million subscribers. You imply that it is some sort of homogenous group. Would you say that New York City, a population of 9+ million are all the same type of people? The hedge fund guy on wall street and the convenience store worker in Harlem? 

Fine, you don't like the humor.

Fine, you don't like convenience and accessibility that games have today.

Fine, you felt more special when it was only the uber-nerd who could or would want to invest 80+ hours a week to become 'leet'.

I know there are hundreds of thousands of hardcore, old school gamers out there. 

But as long as there are MILLIONS of gamers out there NOT like you, guess where the product development focus will be?

The best you can hope for is a future where there are:

-many games developed for the mass population

-a few games for the hardcore

----------------------------------------------------

In the future, if you find that you don't like something. Try not to put other people down to make you feel special. 

Disliking WoW and easily accessible games does not mean you are above the fray; that you are elite, that only players 'like you' are real -  It means you don't share the majority opinion. 

And I will gaurentee you, with 9+ million subscribers, WoW has subscribers that were everybit as hardcore as you were back in the day. They are everybit as hardcore now, playing WoW as you were with whatever 'superior' game you played - and lastly there are probably those playing wow that come off as just as arrogant and elitist in their nerd-rage tirades about  players who aren't like them - talking about how the mass population is ruining everything about gaming.

______________________________

It's time for hardcore players who don't like WoW to stop bashing on rpg convenience games. No one forced you to buy it. No one forced you to play it. You know what you like and it still exists.

Go play EVE

Go play EQ

Go play Vangaurd

Go play DAoC

Or whatever game you think is indicative of a 'real game'.

Those games are still there, still have hardcore guilds and still play those games hardcore. 

The industry didn't leave you behind - you left the games the industry designed for your playstyle.

 

 

I will admit that statement was a bit harsh (I had been drinking a bit that night)...but I'm hoping my point wasn't lost because of that.

I am subbed to Anarchy Online and play it almost everyday. 

 

I have, and I cant help you see it, ignorance is bliss.

You admit that you disagree, and that's your right.

I still say with more life experience you will understand better, until then, enjoy life "as you see it."

attacks (continued...the trilogy or something) - "ignorance is bliss, with more life experience you will understand better (I personally lol'd at this one)"

anything with context - (empty)

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Originally posted by Randayn

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  I have, and I cant help you see it, ignorance is bliss. You admit that you disagree, and that's your right. I still say with more life experience you will understand better, until then, enjoy life "as you see it."

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attacks (continued...the trilogy or something) - "ignorance is bliss, with more life experience you will understand better (I personally lol'd at this one)"

anything with context - (empty)

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We get it, your feelings are hurt. You are a broken record at this point, I've given you an argument... and it's based around the fact that you have not experienced life enough to undertstand the concepts you are attempting to argue.

Ahh! That the key word, argument.

That's all you want, not a discussion, an argument.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall.

Did you notice that saying I have under my avatar? Do you understand what that means?

You prove my point. Go ahead and ignore all the other replies setting you straight, I hit a nerve and yelp, yelp, yelp.

And you will prove it by replying with another set of equally inane statements.

If you are confident in your "position" as it is, so be it, don't act so insecure that you have to validate yourself to a stranger on the internet.

If I'm wrong move on and reply to the others who have poked so many holes in your "argument."

Edit: Ayn Rand, really, now I lol'ed. You need to re-read The Fountainhead. Then again folks often "pose" for others using references and words they don't really understand because they think it makes them look intelligent.