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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Has SOE changed?

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48 posts found
  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

10/13/12 2:23:28 PM#21

I will wait until I see what they are doing with EQ3

SoE is a big corporation and works very diffrerently from the average MMO developer, they are the EA of MMOs.

The way they work is through  numbers, graphics, marketing briefs and board meetings, that's why they've been so crap in the past 8 years.

Let's not forget that like it or not SoE created 2 of the most iconic MMO in history EQ and SWG......................Smedley should think about that instead of chasing the ghosts (WOW)

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

10/13/12 2:32:47 PM#22
Originally posted by ste2000

 

Let's not forget that like it or not SoE created 2 of the most iconic MMO in history EQ and SWG......................Smedley should think about that instead of chasing the ghosts (WOW)

I think DCUO and PS2 already demonstrate that they arent chasing WoW

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1618

10/13/12 2:38:53 PM#23
Originally posted by tixylix
Originally posted by Jonoku
Why EQ3?...they need to make SWG 2.0 somehow.

Whose to say the new Everquest couldn't combine IP and SWG game mechanics? It doesn't have to be Star Wars.

Can't say it was Star Wars as well.

apart from the intro, stormtrooper armor and swoop bikes everything else could be replaced by different named mobs andnoone would notice.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  cylon8

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/07
Posts: 312

10/13/12 2:40:58 PM#24
why does everyone have to chase wow just trae wow like it is...that dying whale out in the middle of the sea that all the other predators pick pieces off of till it dies. SOe unfortunatly is a conglomerate of studios, not every studio works on their games and some suck. That being said smed said the assets from SWG were going to be utilized in a new sandbox, he just didn't say when. SOE is being careful they took alot of financial blows the last 3-5 years and they see the trend of huge ip failures and they are approaching things differently. What hasn;'t changed is the gamers belief that eithe rthey should get everything free or everything should launch perfet out of the box, until that changes no amount of studio wizardy will change gaming

so say we all

  DOGMA1138

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/11
Posts: 477

10/13/12 2:42:28 PM#25
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by ste2000

 

Let's not forget that like it or not SoE created 2 of the most iconic MMO in history EQ and SWG......................Smedley should think about that instead of chasing the ghosts (WOW)

I think DCUO and PS2 already demonstrate that they arent chasing WoW

DCUO is a console MMO, and a F2P one.

PS2 is a MMOFPS

None of these games can actually chase WoW, just by their concept.

If you think that SOE will not be chasing after WoW or atleast it's sub base with EQ3 you are out of your mind.

 

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

10/13/12 2:50:14 PM#26
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by ste2000

 

Let's not forget that like it or not SoE created 2 of the most iconic MMO in history EQ and SWG......................Smedley should think about that instead of chasing the ghosts (WOW)

I think DCUO and PS2 already demonstrate that they arent chasing WoW

When I say chasing WoW I mean making games eazy mode, very casual to attract the widest possible audiance.

DCUO is a s casual as it can gets, and pretty shallow.

PS2 at the moment is nothing special, they lost a good chance to make a real MMOFPS, again they've been very economical with the MMO features and focused more on features belonging to mainstream games like CoD and BF3.

A bold and innovative way to use Planetside IP would have been to make EVE on earth (or any planet of the galaxy of your choice), or even Darkfall

As it is now PS2 is a way to cash in on the popularity of FPS like Battlefield or Call of Duty.

I am playing Beta but really I can't see why I should pick PS2 over CoD.

So, in my view SoE hasn't changed yet.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1788

10/13/12 3:10:11 PM#27
Originally posted by ste2000

I will wait until I see what they are doing with EQ3

SoE is a big corporation and works very diffrerently from the average MMO developer, they are the EA of MMOs.

The way they work is through  numbers, graphics, marketing briefs and board meetings, that's why they've been so crap in the past 8 years.

Let's not forget that like it or not SoE created 2 of the most iconic MMO in history EQ and SWG......................Smedley should think about that instead of chasing the ghosts (WOW)

Well once again the memory of SWG is proving to be far larger than the game ever was itself. Funny how nobody talked about it when it was around and nearly nobody played it by todays standards even before NGE. In a game that peaked around 10k players at Friday prime time you'd think by all the talk today that SWG would pull in 3 million players if it came back. Complete and total lies.

 

The entire point to EQNext (and why it isn't called EQ3) is that it is an attempt to hearken back to the original EQ game. That alone says something about the direction of the company. It seems apparent that SOE at least has garnered an understanding that they must preserve their own IP's and to stop copying other companies successes. The proof will be when EQNext is released and if it truly is something "old school original" and is actually good or not.

 

Someone else mentioned about how Planetside 2 should have been a more sandbox sci-fi mmo. This is rather hillarious seeing how it is designed to be a FPS mmo and changing it would make it entirely a different genre game which sort of ruins it's whole concept. Not all games can be exactly what you want. It would be like being disappointed that a Star Craft game wasn't a sandbox mmo. I'd say that that person was rather out of touch.

 

The only evidence I have bothered to pay attention to is comments toward more sandbox elements in mmos, Vanguard not being a complete wasteland like it once was, that EQNext will be an attempt to bring back the IP to it's origins and actually introducing new social tech into mmos. All of those sound pretty decent and if SOE continues to focus on their core IPs and customize them to their core playerbase they should be moving much more into favor over EA and Activision these days.

 

I think it is more a matter of SOE having to be completely incompetent not to move far more into favor over EA and Activision. You'd almost have purposely self-destruct to be as bad as those two companies.

You stay sassy!

  Threatlevel0

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 165

10/13/12 3:16:52 PM#28
Originally posted by Tamanous

Well once again the memory of SWG is proving to be far larger than the game ever was itself. Funny how nobody talked about it when it was around and nearly nobody played it by todays standards even before NGE. In a game that peaked around 10k players at Friday prime time you'd think by all the talk today that SWG would pull in 3 million players if it came back. Complete and total lies.

 

The 10k players on a Friday night were from unconfirmed reports which Smedley even denied.  Unless you can find actual confirmed counts on that somewhere...I wouldn't speak of total and complete lies.  Maybe we should look at SWG's Xfire numbers!?!   ...

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

10/13/12 3:30:42 PM#29
Originally posted by Tamanous
Originally posted by ste2000

I will wait until I see what they are doing with EQ3

SoE is a big corporation and works very diffrerently from the average MMO developer, they are the EA of MMOs.

The way they work is through  numbers, graphics, marketing briefs and board meetings, that's why they've been so crap in the past 8 years.

Let's not forget that like it or not SoE created 2 of the most iconic MMO in history EQ and SWG......................Smedley should think about that instead of chasing the ghosts (WOW)

Well once again the memory of SWG is proving to be far larger than the game ever was itself. Funny how nobody talked about it when it was around and nearly nobody played it by todays standards even before NGE. In a game that peaked around 10k players at Friday prime time you'd think by all the talk today that SWG would pull in 3 million players if it came back. Complete and total lies.

 

Well you seems to forget that the MMO audiance in 2003 was 20 times smaller than it is now.

WOW made MMOs mainstream, and as soon as WOW launched SWG was virtually killed with the NGE treatment.

So 95% of today of MMO players never had a chance to play the original SWG.

Secondly MMO technology those days were at the start so games like UO, EQ, and SWG were pretty much limited compared to today industry standards, but their vision and concept were (and are) pretty unique.

Those 3 games (plus DAOC and AC) have very distinctive playstyles.

Same cannot be said for today MMOs which are so similar to each other that the only difference between them is the name

  defector1968

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/10
Posts: 400

Real Animal lovers are ONLY the vegetarians

10/13/12 3:38:06 PM#30
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by tixylix
Originally posted by Jonoku
Why EQ3?...they need to make SWG 2.0 somehow.

Whose to say the new Everquest couldn't combine IP and SWG game mechanics? It doesn't have to be Star Wars.

Can't say it was Star Wars as well.

apart from the intro, stormtrooper armor and swoop bikes everything else could be replaced by different named mobs andnoone would notice.

all ships was in the movies, almost all races was in the movies, jedis/lightsabers was only in SW movies, a lot of the animals was in the movies

those that dont understand the difference are people that arent and never were Star Wars fans and never seen any of the movies

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6105

10/13/12 5:25:20 PM#31
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

Time will tell but if SoE is good at anything, its giving you one thing then completely changing it once they feel it isn't meeting market share estimates.

 

EQ2 and SWG(CU/NGE) anyone?

 

 

I would say at least 90% of people think EQ2 changed for the better, if not more.  And the changes werent that drastic anyway, and they absolutely were because of player feedback.  

 

SWG is one game, and one that SoE did not even have creative control over.  Its time to let that one go already.

When EQ2 changed to a more WoW type play shortly after release and then dropped the station exchange on us, the population plummeted.  If memory serves, they lost nearly a 1/3 of the playerbase.  Far different from your 90% guess.

 

While they might not have been wholly responsible for SWG, they had a part in it.  To act as if they are blameless is ridiculous.  BTW, I'm over it, but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist because other people get irritated when it's brought up.  It happened, it's a sticking point for many, and very pertinent to this thread so you can let it go already.

 

EDIT: Just found this...

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

 

According to this chart from MMOdata.net, EQ2 peaked at around 330k subs, then when the changes and station exchange came about the subs plummeted to 175k.

 

So that means they nearly lost 1/2 their playerbase over the changes you claim 90% approved of.  Maybe you meant 90% of those that were left?

If you think they lost the player base due to fairly minor changes instead of the fact that EQ2 just wasnt that good until KoS and EoF you just dont live in reality.  

We are MMO players,, of course we don't live in reality,,, what you think this is,,, VH1 or something?

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

10/13/12 6:28:03 PM#32
Originally posted by Jonoku

Also the problem with trying to make a new IP for sci-fi is lack of creativity. People can't do what LucasArts and StarTrekArts or whatever can do, that is why there is a lack of sci-fi mmos in the first place. Most sci-fi mmos are lame.(All fantasy genre/story is lame imo.)

Making a new IP for sci-fi is hard but if they have the swg elements right, I think it will succed. ex: I went to GW2 regardless of the IP or genre, it has the elements that I love.

Actually the opposite is true, making a new IP for sci-fi is easy, its high fantasy thats hard to do.

The core of Sci-Fi is plausability, you simply paint a picture of future technology/science in a way that sounds believable. And since our understanding of the world around us still keeps evolving so does sci-fi. A sci-fi IP from 10 years ago will look differently than a sci-fi IP would today, current day knowledge about dark matter, black holes or the estimated amound of habitable planets will greatly influence it. Just one tiny example, the notion that aliens would attack earth for its resources ... quite common theme. Nowadays we know that there is a planet no 50 LYs away from earth that consists almost entirely of diamond, about 3 times the earth mass of diamonds ... how much karat would that nnugget be? And oxygen? Made by trees and stuff, probably pretty rare right? Not really, infact its even more common than dirt out here. Water? Forget it, thats just hydrogen + oxygen, extremely common, and again there are entire planets out there consisting almost completely out of water. A current day sci-fi writer who did his homework(and all the good ones do), would feel just silly to come up with a story like that. Same for that whole "lets fly into that black hole, its a shortcut", haven't seen that in like 15 years because people would just shake their head at stuff like this today. May aswell shoot someone to the moon in an projectile of some really big gun.

Just take a look at the variety of very good and different sci-fi IPs out there, from david webers to gene roddenberry's or TV series like babylon 5 if thats more your thing.

And star wars isn't really sci-fi, it kinda lacks the science part. Besides it doesn't even pretend to be set in our future(or even the universe we reside in), which is a mark of low fantasy(i.e. completely made up world). Its just a story bout a farmer boy finding out about his special heritage, becoming a knight and going to fight the big evil who turns out to be his father whose love for his son overcomes the evil in him and they defeat the bad guy together. Of course daddy dies, but everyone is happy(even the dead). Don't get me wrong, i loved SW as a kid, but its not exactly deep ...

 

And yes, i think SoE changed somewhat. Maybe they have become more humble, finally accepting that a good niche product is better than producing yet another failed wow contender. Well atleast i hope so, there should be SOME limit to human thickheadedness after all.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

10/13/12 7:20:40 PM#33
Originally posted by Larsa

I agree that the words that come from SOE (yes, and from Mr. Smedley) lately sound good.

In all this ocean of casualness and convenience and streamlining SOE seems to follow another strategy lately, not so much the "hype and burn" to sell millions of boxes, but also with a view on the games' longevity.

Massively had a good article on Mr. Smedley's keynote at GDC online recently: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/11/gdc-online-2012-john-smedleys-keynote-on-mmo-trends-and-the-fu/

They haven't be so good to EU customers with the transitions to ProSieben. DCUO was a mess, EQ2 and others are in a delay currently because of the mess with DCUO. SOE were becoming generally rude to EU customers with this deal, probably getting fed up with all the negativity of it all, but no excuse if they want to be seen as professionals

Also EU customers have had to pay a sub to each game since about March, as can not get All Access. If you want to pay for a sub to DCUO, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard it costs £38.96 per month, when beforehand could get all of them for £13.99, and the cost of them per month under ProSieben costs £11.99 instead of £8.99

As for Planetside 2 and EQ 3, they are no longer worthwhile, as will be under ProSieben. I doubt these games will ever be available under SOE, to save transitioning. When they launch, they will be immediately under ProSieben.

SOE are good, and I would be committed to them for life, but they will no longer exist for us in EU, and ProSieben is the worst. If I was in the US, I may even boycott SOE games, for their treatment to the EU

  Azaron_Nightblade

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 1287

10/13/12 8:28:06 PM#34

I'll definitely be trying PS2, hopefully this time around it won't be perma-broken for me (Planetside 1 had horrible graphic glitches on my computer, where almost every wall was invisible - not as fun as it sounds, since I didn't get to see what was happening on the other side either =P).

Of course if Defiance is out by then... >.>

My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  Azaron_Nightblade

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 1287

10/13/12 8:32:54 PM#35
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Larsa

I agree that the words that come from SOE (yes, and from Mr. Smedley) lately sound good.

In all this ocean of casualness and convenience and streamlining SOE seems to follow another strategy lately, not so much the "hype and burn" to sell millions of boxes, but also with a view on the games' longevity.

Massively had a good article on Mr. Smedley's keynote at GDC online recently: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/11/gdc-online-2012-john-smedleys-keynote-on-mmo-trends-and-the-fu/

They haven't be so good to EU customers with the transitions to ProSieben. DCUO was a mess, EQ2 and others are in a delay currently because of the mess with DCUO. SOE were becoming generally rude to EU customers with this deal, probably getting fed up with all the negativity of it all, but no excuse if they want to be seen as professionals

Also EU customers have had to pay a sub to each game since about March, as can not get All Access. If you want to pay for a sub to DCUO, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard it costs £38.96 per month, when beforehand could get all of them for £13.99, and the cost of them per month under ProSieben costs £11.99 instead of £8.99

As for Planetside 2 and EQ 3, they are no longer worthwhile, as will be under ProSieben. I doubt these games will ever be available under SOE, to save transitioning. When they launch, they will be immediately under ProSieben.

SOE are good, and I would be committed to them for life, but they will no longer exist for us in EU, and ProSieben is the worst. If I was in the US, I may even boycott SOE games, for their treatment to the EU

Ugh, I didn't read that before replying... guess Planetside 2 is out for me too then.

I HATE it when some company delegates the handling of their EU version of the MMO to some charlatans who charge you through the nose for utterly crappy service. (I'm looking at you NCSoft/Aion! With your US Aion version that's truly F2P while the EU version has to pay GameForge to be able to do ANYTHING!)

My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  Ashlura

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/06
Posts: 113

10/13/12 8:36:11 PM#36
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

Time will tell but if SoE is good at anything, its giving you one thing then completely changing it once they feel it isn't meeting market share estimates.

 

EQ2 and SWG(CU/NGE) anyone?

 

 

Yup! +1

This is why I dont like to play their games. They are infamous for it. I am okay with changes in an MMO. We have all seen it for years. But to change something so drastically, is just wrong. They were proud of SWG and what they did and said had they released the game as they shut id down all those years ago, it wouldve been a hit.

I dont get it.

I guess Im ancient old school UO style sandbox gamer where I want to live as my character.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

10/13/12 9:48:43 PM#37
Originally posted by Ashlura
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

Time will tell but if SoE is good at anything, its giving you one thing then completely changing it once they feel it isn't meeting market share estimates.

 

EQ2 and SWG(CU/NGE) anyone?

 

 

Yup! +1

This is why I dont like to play their games. They are infamous for it. I am okay with changes in an MMO. We have all seen it for years. But to change something so drastically, is just wrong. They were proud of SWG and what they did and said had they released the game as they shut id down all those years ago, it wouldve been a hit.

I dont get it.

I guess Im ancient old school UO style sandbox gamer where I want to live as my character.

And this just shows what SoE's real biggest problem is:  customer ignorance.

 

They were proud of what they did?  Do you even know where that quote came from?  It was from a guy leading a team of people tasked with making these changes in a very short period of team.  He was proud of how his team was able to bust its ass and meet the deadline.

 

And its pretty obvious, especially in light of SWTOR, that Lucas Arts was the driving factor behind this, not SoE.  And since SoE did not have creative control over the game they really didnt have a choice.

 

How the game was wow-ified, that was probably SoE.  The fact that the game was wow-ified, that was Lucas Arts.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2481

World > Quest Progression

10/13/12 10:51:19 PM#38
Originally posted by tixylix
Originally posted by Jonoku
Why EQ3?...they need to make SWG 2.0 somehow.

Whose to say the new Everquest couldn't combine IP and SWG game mechanics? It doesn't have to be Star Wars.

 

This would be a dream come true for me personally and seems like the perfect way to "make amends" for what happened with SWG.  I look at the great things they are doing with PS2 and remind myself that EverQuest is the franchise brand which gets me a little tingly.  If EQN is what I think it is, all the signs and comments point to it, I will be buying a Station Pass because PS2 looks fantastic and I have kids that like Free Realms.  We'll see though, you never know what will happen until it does.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2481

World > Quest Progression

10/13/12 11:03:39 PM#39
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Ashlura
Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

Time will tell but if SoE is good at anything, its giving you one thing then completely changing it once they feel it isn't meeting market share estimates.

 

EQ2 and SWG(CU/NGE) anyone?

 

 

Yup! +1

This is why I dont like to play their games. They are infamous for it. I am okay with changes in an MMO. We have all seen it for years. But to change something so drastically, is just wrong. They were proud of SWG and what they did and said had they released the game as they shut id down all those years ago, it wouldve been a hit.

I dont get it.

I guess Im ancient old school UO style sandbox gamer where I want to live as my character.

And this just shows what SoE's real biggest problem is:  customer ignorance.

 

They were proud of what they did?  Do you even know where that quote came from?  It was from a guy leading a team of people tasked with making these changes in a very short period of team.  He was proud of how his team was able to bust its ass and meet the deadline.

 

And its pretty obvious, especially in light of SWTOR, that Lucas Arts was the driving factor behind this, not SoE.  And since SoE did not have creative control over the game they really didnt have a choice.

 

How the game was wow-ified, that was probably SoE.  The fact that the game was wow-ified, that was Lucas Arts.

 

The situation is a bit different now as many companies have thrown WoW wads at the window and most have not stuck but slid down.  The key to success now seems to build a game that is NOT WoW lest you swell and deflate within a month.  This is my hope anyway since a real alternative would be nice.

 

The situation with SWG sucked but I can see how it happened no matter who was at fault.  Say you sold coffee and had a good customer base enjoying it.  Then another company opens up and not only sells many times more than you but also your own customers were jumping ship to join them.  What would you do? There are times in business were you have to change with market trends to thrive.  In SWGs case with NGE it didn't bring in enough long term to matter and then lost some of the playerbase that was diehard.  It was a risk and they paid for it.

 

I would love to see them release EQN as a sort of tribute to SWG pre-NGE.  Let's harp on them until it happens!

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3616

10/13/12 11:37:15 PM#40
     Im nto sure listening to the player base is always a good thing....Sure consider their input ,but I wouldnt want them to change everything anytime someone is whining about it.....
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