Looking at all the threads and discussions about mmo features (Ex: themepark VS sandbox, group play VS solo play, etc), i came to the conclusion that the fundamental opinion from the people about mmos are only two, with all the other opinions and visions derived from these:

1- People who thinks that mmos should be "simulators" of a world with "realistic" human interactions (like politics, economics, military, etc)

2- People who thinks that mmos are, before and above all, only games like any other and should provide "fun", distraction, satisfaction and entertainment without necessarily tring to simulate "realistic" human interactions.

The people from group 1 usually prefer sandboxes features, while the people from group 2 prefer themeparks. Obviously, there are many that prefer both in different proportions.

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Looking at all the threads and discussions about mmo features (Ex: themepark VS sandbox, group play VS solo play, etc), i came to the conclusion that the fundamental opinion from the people about mmos are only two, with all the other opinions and visions derived from these:

1- People who thinks that mmos should be "simulators" of a world with "realistic" human interactions (like politics, economics, military, etc)

2- People who thinks that mmos are, before and above all, only games like any other and should provide "fun", distraction, satisfaction and entertainment without necessarily tring to simulate "realistic" human interactions.

 

The people from group 1 usually prefer sandboxes features, while the people from group 2 prefer themeparks. Obviously, there are many that prefer both in different proportions.

 

 

A reasonable conclusion. I fit into group 1, but I'm almost solely a RPG player, so I do enjoy a good story. So a well made themepark may occupy my time for a few months. I think that's why group 1 isn't getting much attention from investors and developers. It's easier to create a themepark, and many if not most group 1 players can enjoy a well made themepark in short bursts.

I would think the "immersive world" versus "just a game" divisiveness is generally a part of gaming and media in general in this day and age. Mostly as a result of people expecting different things from their entertainment.

For instance: enjoying something like Revolution (which is storytelling about a world) versus Survivor: The Philippines (which is a heavily-controlled reality show).

My example's a little imprecise  though.

I am in group 1 too, because the group 2 has MUCH more and better options of single and multiplayer games to play, with richness in story and gameplay that none mmo with focus in single-player-like content can emulate.

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Looking at all the threads and discussions about mmo features (Ex: themepark VS sandbox, group play VS solo play, etc), i came to the conclusion that the fundamental opinion from the people about mmos are only two, with all the other opinions and visions derived from these:

1- People who thinks that mmos should be "simulators" of a world with "realistic" human interactions (like politics, economics, military, etc)

2- People who thinks that mmos are, before and above all, only games like any other and should provide "fun", distraction, satisfaction and entertainment without necessarily tring to simulate "realistic" human interactions.

 

The people from group 1 usually prefer sandboxes features, while the people from group 2 prefer themeparks. Obviously, there are many that prefer both in different proportions.

 

 

Every game genre has people with diffrent tastes.  

Mmorpg genre is so big and wide that divisions in playerbase are deeper and that's not a surprise.  Simply difftent players want to play difftent type of mmprpg's because they play them for difftent type of game experience in first place.

Difftences between groups and disaggrement with just increase as time passes, like it is happening for years already.  Genre matured and people don't want to go on such big compromises.   If we divide playerbase as you did then first group get more and more dissatisfied and frusttrated because it is smaller and are neglected by most developers.

Second group feel strong, cause is catered to more and is pushing for mmorpg's to be changed even more in direction of combat oriented and fast entertaiment.

I think divisions like that are permenent and I think it might be impossible to build an mmorpg that would cater for both of those groups anymore, which was tried by WoW Vanilla & BG and other mmorpg's that came out in 2004-2008.  One could argue that even some of before 2004 and some post 2008 mmorpg's also tried to do it in some way.

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I think in future mmorpg playerbase will be even more divided.  In example It will became apparent that hardcore themepark / raiding group will also spawn from your group nr 2 and will be diffrent from group 1 & group 2.   People playing GW2 or Marvel Heroes and people playing WoW or Rift will want very difftent things also. It alrady started and those groups will go further from themself as well.

Of course it all boils down to methodology as you can divide playerbase in 100 difftent groups if you want.

First that come in mind is huge crack in playerbase over business models or combat type.

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Looking at all the threads and discussions about mmo features (Ex: themepark VS sandbox, group play VS solo play, etc), i came to the conclusion that the fundamental opinion from the people about mmos are only two, with all the other opinions and visions derived from these:

1- People who thinks that mmos should be "simulators" of a world with "realistic" human interactions (like politics, economics, military, etc)

2- People who thinks that mmos are, before and above all, only games like any other and should provide "fun", distraction, satisfaction and entertainment without necessarily tring to simulate "realistic" human interactions.

 

The people from group 1 usually prefer sandboxes features, while the people from group 2 prefer themeparks. Obviously, there are many that prefer both in different proportions.

 

 

 I agree with the premise and your two general camps, or points on a continuum IMO however, "The people from group 1 usually prefer sandboxes features, while the people from group 2 prefer themeparks. Obviously, there are many that prefer both in different proportions"

That last part I disagree with with.  There is no reason why a sandbox cannot be a game within a world.  I don't think anyone anywhere really objects to an MMO being a world, but they want it to be fun and not a job.

I myself prefer them to be games, but have enjoyed several sandboxes.  Actually I played Istaria longer than any other MMO.

edit - I don't find spg games better.  While they sometimes have good stories and combat (not not always or IMO even most times), the environment of MMO's even if you play solo is so different and the people around you add such an element of randomness that MMO's blow away spg.

nah your two points are only minimal discussions.If you actually read into MOST posts PVP is right at the top of discussions.

You see your point 1/2 are what i want from games but i need BOTH those aspects rolled into one or it just doesn't work as a MMORPG.

The flip side is people who want PVP and tons of arguing over it's limitations and balance.

I might be alone but i really want the realistic factor,example i cannot stand xp for doing meaningless quests or in some cases,exploration or crafting.yes i like crafting experience but it should NOT be related to your players experience outside of crafting unless yo uwere to say the player gained a better level of dexerity through crafting.

Things simply need to make sense,full out open pvp does NOT make sense,running from point a>B and getting rewareded for it does NOT make sense.Glittery arrows/question marks over npc heads does not make sense,i have NEVER seen a question mark over anyone's head in my entire life and neither has anyone else.

That is all i ask is for a developer to put some common sense or reasoning behind their design.using that analogy ,i can accept just about any type of RPG,after all the meaning behind RPG is role playing.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Looking at all the threads and discussions about mmo features (Ex: themepark VS sandbox, group play VS solo play, etc), i came to the conclusion that the fundamental opinion from the people about mmos are only two, with all the other opinions and visions derived from these:

1- People who thinks that mmos should be "simulators" of a world with "realistic" human interactions (like politics, economics, military, etc)

2- People who thinks that mmos are, before and above all, only games like any other and should provide "fun", distraction, satisfaction and entertainment without necessarily tring to simulate "realistic" human interactions.

 

The people from group 1 usually prefer sandboxes features, while the people from group 2 prefer themeparks. Obviously, there are many that prefer both in different proportions.

 

 

 I agree with the premise and your two general camps, or points on a continuum IMO however, "The people from group 1 usually prefer sandboxes features, while the people from group 2 prefer themeparks. Obviously, there are many that prefer both in different proportions"

That last part I disagree with with.  There is no reason why a sandbox cannot be a game within a world.  I don't think anyone anywhere really objects to an MMO being a world, but they want it to be fun and not a job.

I myself prefer them to be games, but have enjoyed several sandboxes.  Actually I played Istaria longer than any other MMO.

edit - I don't find spg games better.  While they sometimes have good stories and combat (not not always or IMO even most times), the environment of MMO's even if you play solo is so different and the people around you add such an element of randomness that MMO's blow away spg.

I agree with this. I want a game world (why I play MMO over console RPG) but I also want it to be fun. Not loads of time sinks keeping me away from Fun.

Things like Leveling character levels, Instanced PvP restricted to higher levels only, exp debuffs, harsh Death Penalty, FFA looting, gear level requirements, etc

These kind of features turn me off from MMO.