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92 posts found
  Razimus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/06
Posts: 129

 
OP  10/13/12 12:19:57 PM#1

The #1 most important thing in an MMORPG 

What I consider to be the clear and defining line, defining the bad from the great:

Non-Instanced-Housing 

If the MMO that I'm playing doesn't have it, if the developers don't even know what it is, if the community have never experienced it. Only few, and by few I mean I can only name 2 MMORPGs that have ever even boasted Non-Instanced-Housing, knowing it's rare I'll explain to those who have not experienced it. It is when your house in the game is not a decoration, it is terrain, it directly impacts other players as not only can they see it but they are forced to walk around it, it is as real as the rest of the terrain in the entire game, when you open the door you are *NOT* transported to an imaginary place that only you and invited friends can see, for ALL CAN SEE AT ALL TIMES, NON-INSTANCED-HOUSING defines whether an MMORPG is worth dedicating the time to stay in or not, because most don't have it most aren't worth wasting time on. 

The entire game changes with Non-Instanced-Housing, bad neighborhoods, turf wars, good neighborhoods, alliances, wars, battles, it becomes more than a place to store your crap, it becomes the game itself, property value, real estate, economy, there are so many factors I can't list them all, but when an MMORPG has Non-Instanced-Housing instead of Lame Instanced-Housing, or no housing at all, that game you know is going to be serious, you know a game with Non-Instanced-Housing is going to be kick ass. For those who haven't experienced it are missing A LOT.

--- Razimus

  Auzy

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/04
Posts: 615

10/13/12 12:23:33 PM#2
Gonna have to disagree and say its combat....

Uhh... what?

  Razimus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/06
Posts: 129

 
OP  10/13/12 12:25:39 PM#3
Originally posted by Auzy
Gonna have to disagree and say its combat....

I will say PvP is #2, or 'Combat', but without Non-Instanced-Housing I won't waste my time and money on any MMORPG no matter how great the combat is.

--- Razimus

  Jockan

Elite Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 4244

10/13/12 12:26:44 PM#4

I think Everquest 2 has non instanced housing. Been a long time since I played so not really sure.

 

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3211

10/13/12 12:27:49 PM#5
It depends on what you like really.  For me it's all about story and lore.  If it doesn't have a good story like daoc, wow, lotro, ffxi or rift, I don't want to play it.  Everyone has thier own thing they have to have though.
  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3722

10/13/12 12:27:56 PM#6
It's a great idea in theory, but it would have to be indestructible to avoid obvious grieving and only be allowed in certain area or you will just get property sprawl that would destroy performance and immersion. If you limit to certain areas without instancing then space is limited, and if you don't limit space and don't instance you hit performance issues. Its a good idea but can only work in games that have small populations, ie if a game is good with housing it's catch 22 it can't cope.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO

  Jockan

Elite Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 4244

10/13/12 12:28:32 PM#7
For me a game has to have a heavy social aspect where you have to talk and work with other people to get things done. I hate mmos where you spend 99% of the time running around solo and never have to say anything to anybody.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

10/13/12 12:30:57 PM#8
Im gonna say, Is it fun. i would rather enjoy what im playing than have a house.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Razimus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/06
Posts: 129

 
OP  10/13/12 12:32:07 PM#9

I will say this,

those who don't have Non-Instanced-Housing in their top 10 requirements for an MMO, or top 5 or 3 even, have likely never fully experienced it, there's nothing else like it, there is no comparison, it's like comparing a laser death ray weapon to throwing a rock, there's no comparison.

I make this post to encourage future MMORPGs to soak in what past, ancient games have already done, every next game is supposed to have absorbed all the good qualities of the previous games, somehow this attribute has been lost, I believe it's because it's not *easy* adding this to a game, thus proving the past 15 years of games have taken the easy route (minus the extremely small number who have incorporated Non-Instanced-Housing), I will wait til the day I die if need be, but I'm not one of those who will claim they will start their own game, I can't design a game, all I can do is wait, if I become a millionaire I will consider investing into such idea but it's really up to the gaming industry, and it's up to you to decide if it's worth existing in future MMOs, if you say combat combat combat and ignore the qualities that makes an MMORPG truly great you will see the same old Wow-Clone for the rest of your life.

--- Razimus

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

10/13/12 12:39:43 PM#10

Synergy.  

 

This is most important.    Mmorpg's are or more accuretely were combination of : combat, social, single, cooperation, PvE, PvP, economy, creation and sims game. All that placed in new enviroment: persistant and majorly seamless worlds that were spiced with immersion created by separation from external factors (real wortld and other worlds-servers).

 

Sacrificing above factors in order to create better combat and focusing whole game on it, it mean that game is more one-dimensional and there is less factors to combine to create syngergy.

  User Deleted
10/13/12 12:43:44 PM#11

It's not my number 1, but it is certainly well up there with the most important things in my opinion as well OP. A lot of people who haven't actually experienced mmos with a good non instanced housing system don't always appreciate that it brings things to the table other than just something to decorate.

 

Player cities, territorial conflict, political intrigue. People trading cities, player cities which actually become important cultural reference points on their servers. Player architects laying out towns for guilds for specific purposes. PvP bases, social hubs, quest run start off points. RP points. Resource domination points. Carefully placed buff houses near pvp hotspots. Fast travel centres.

 

It really can add to the social, poltical and pvp meta narrative of the game world. That and it invests the player directly with the game world, it gives them a slice of it and makes for a sense of persistency and permanence which is so missing from todays titles.

 

Now we have one dimensional facerollers for the main part.

  Zadawn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/10
Posts: 676

10/13/12 12:49:50 PM#12

I agree with the OP.

  Razimus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/06
Posts: 129

 
OP  10/13/12 12:51:28 PM#13
Originally posted by fenistil

Synergy.  

 

This is most important.    Mmorpg's are or more accuretely were combination of : combat, social, single, cooperation, PvE, PvP, economy, creation and sims game. All that placed in new enviroment: persistant and majorly seamless worlds that were spiced with immersion created by separation from external factors (real wortld and other worlds-servers).

 

Sacrificing above factors in order to create better combat and focusing whole game on it, it mean that game is more one-dimensional and there is less factors to combine to create syngergy.

 

I agree, one-dimensional is a perfect illustration of 99% of the MMOs out there, Combat and PvP are great, but without any depth around them, it's too shallow of an experience for me.

It's true, the focus is on combat, and getting the next best set of gear, a lot is lost when you are in a combat/gear ratrace, I would never want a game without combat, I'm not proposing furcadia here, I'm proposing a game with as much combat as you like, but where the combat zones aren't defined by a tiny arena, they are defined by the players, and when they are defined by the players in a world where players can use their houses as death traps, as defences, safe houses, battlegrounds, that's the type of complexity I'm looking for in a game, I know it's going to be rare, but I didn't expect it would be so rare in 2012 that I couldn't find a single new-ish game without Non-Instanced-Housing.

--- Razimus

  Apraxis

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1509

10/13/12 12:55:02 PM#14
Originally posted by fenistil

Synergy.  

 

This is most important.    Mmorpg's are or more accuretely were combination of : combat, social, single, cooperation, PvE, PvP, economy, creation and sims game. All that placed in new enviroment: persistant and majorly seamless worlds that were spiced with immersion created by separation from external factors (real wortld and other worlds-servers).

 

Sacrificing above factors in order to create better combat and focusing whole game on it, it mean that game is more one-dimensional and there is less factors to combine to create syngergy.

Yeap. You may be right with that one. Non Instanced housing is important, as is a good working ingame economy, as other ways to play beside of combat(and to go without combat completely), as very strong social aspects, as to be able to alter the environment in general(not just with housing alone), and so much more.

So yes.. maybe the #1 is synergy, or there is no #1 and you have to do a lot of things right for a great game(and especially MMORPG or Virtual World in this case).

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5676

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

10/13/12 1:15:48 PM#15
Originally posted by Auzy
Gonna have to disagree and say its combat....

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

10/13/12 1:37:15 PM#16
Originally posted by Razimus

The #1 most important thing in an MMORPG 

What I consider to be the clear and defining line, defining the bad from the great:

Non-Instanced-Housing 

If the MMO that I'm playing doesn't have it, if the developers don't even know what it is, if the community have never experienced it. Only few, and by few I mean I can only name 2 MMORPGs that have ever even boasted Non-Instanced-Housing, knowing it's rare I'll explain to those who have not experienced it. It is when your house in the game is not a decoration, it is terrain, it directly impacts other players as not only can they see it but they are forced to walk around it, it is as real as the rest of the terrain in the entire game, when you open the door you are *NOT* transported to an imaginary place that only you and invited friends can see, for ALL CAN SEE AT ALL TIMES, NON-INSTANCED-HOUSING defines whether an MMORPG is worth dedicating the time to stay in or not, because most don't have it most aren't worth wasting time on. 

The entire game changes with Non-Instanced-Housing, bad neighborhoods, turf wars, good neighborhoods, alliances, wars, battles, it becomes more than a place to store your crap, it becomes the game itself, property value, real estate, economy, there are so many factors I can't list them all, but when an MMORPG has Non-Instanced-Housing instead of Lame Instanced-Housing, or no housing at all, that game you know is going to be serious, you know a game with Non-Instanced-Housing is going to be kick ass. For those who haven't experienced it are missing A LOT.

Nice post - and I largely agree. A territory in an MMORPG that belongs to the player (or the guild, village, tribe, whatever it's called in the game) completely changes the game. In a way the game becomes your own when you have something of your own in the game-world - and players tend to care about their own things.

BTW, there are more games with this feature than you think. I have played 6 games that feature non-instanced housing in the actual game world: Haven & Hearth, Istaria, Salem, Vanguard, Wurm and Xsyon, three other games I played come close: Glitch, LotRO and The Sims Online - they feature non-instanced housing but the houses are tucked away in a zone separated from the actual game world. I'm sure there are other games that I didn't play and that I have forgotten some as well.

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19398

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/13/12 3:33:33 PM#17

EVE has non-instanced housing... it's not that great. 

I like the combat better myself.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2784

10/13/12 3:36:56 PM#18
Originally posted by Auzy
Gonna have to disagree and say its combat....

Definitely combat.

 

The second most has to be gear/character progression at the level cap.  This is what is causing a lot of problems for GW2.

 

Housing is basically fluff.  I barely used it in LOTRO or other games.

  Threatlevel0

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 166

10/13/12 3:41:09 PM#19

The #1 most important thing in an MMORPG is...  players.  

 

But no, I would say we go back the three pillars, not four (sorry Bioware!).   

  • Engaging Combat
  • Social-driven Gameplay
  • Character Progression
Wouldn't that be the three?  Like the core, the foundation, of any MMORPG?  That's basically by definition what a MMORPG is. You could add a fourth pillar like Bioware tried but, silly Bioware, everyone knows a triangle is the strongest foundation!
 
So, you're all wrong.   Except maybe Synergy guy.  
  User Deleted
10/13/12 4:24:32 PM#20
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by Auzy
Gonna have to disagree and say its combat....

Definitely combat.

 

The second most has to be gear/character progression at the level cap.  This is what is causing a lot of problems for GW2.

 

Housing is basically fluff.  I barely used it in LOTRO or other games.

Instanced housing is fluff. Player houses which can be put down in the open world to form player towns, which can become trade hubs and pvp centres. Which can be attacked and defended and which can be used to control resources. That's far from "fluff".

 

People put combat first (as do I), but people don't seem to see that a good player housing system adds to that combat, it offers more possibilities for combat. Fighting over a player city which dominates a trade route, or banging keep doors over and over again in GW2. I know which I would rather have.

 

Having your guild plan and lay out houses in order to make barricades and choke routes to mash your enemy. Non instanced housing offers a great deal more than "fluff".

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