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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » WvW lack of progression feeling

14 posts found
  Jason1989

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/08
Posts: 28

 
OP  10/13/12 2:33:43 AM#1

I spent about an hour and a half in WvW tonight. It was a lot of fun, and I really do enjoy it. Nothing like watching a catapult smash down a wall and see tons of enemies come rushing through the wreckage at you.

With that said, I felt like I made little to no progress in that time. I think I got 2 badges of honor in that entire play period and maybe 700 karma. I was looking at the WvW armor set and thought I would like to try and get it, but at this rate I will never be able to get it. I killed quiet a few people and used a finisher on around 6-8 people. I think I only got badges from two. Many others were downed or killed by me and I got no badge for those either.  I don't understand why they're so stingy with the badges. I feel like there should be more of a reward for killing the enemy than a badge every now and then.

Am I doing something wrong? Whats your opinion on this?

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

10/13/12 3:11:42 AM#2

Yeah, I agree, lack of meaningful progression in WvW is one of the real flaws I see in GW2 at the moment. I hope they address this eventually, probably after their big sPvP patch.

Imo, there should be some kind of "renown" or "glory" or whatever in WvW which can be traded for specific gear or titles or something. Additionally, the xp rewards should be upped, especially taking into account that WvW has a highly unpredictable xp gain rate by its very nature (the mobs are always there, enemy players on a huge map not so much). Imo Anet should look into Mythic's experience with WAR where they had pretty much the same set of problems with open world PvP rewards that took the better part of a year to solve. Personally I wouldn't mind "parallel PvP levelling" with its own set of levels that would take much longer than PvE ones to complete; imo WAR had that done all right but considering how ANet functions, they could improve on that model.

  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1368

10/13/12 6:51:59 AM#3
Originally posted by Jason1989

I spent about an hour and a half in WvW tonight. It was a lot of fun, and I really do enjoy it. Nothing like watching a catapult smash down a wall and see tons of enemies come rushing through the wreckage at you.

With that said, I felt like I made little to no progress in that time. I think I got 2 badges of honor in that entire play period and maybe 700 karma. I was looking at the WvW armor set and thought I would like to try and get it, but at this rate I will never be able to get it. I killed quiet a few people and used a finisher on around 6-8 people. I think I only got badges from two. Many others were downed or killed by me and I got no badge for those either.  I don't understand why they're so stingy with the badges. I feel like there should be more of a reward for killing the enemy than a badge every now and then.

Am I doing something wrong? Whats your opinion on this?

WvW lacks any progression whatsoever, badges and kit isn't really progression.

DAoC had realm ranks based on realm point progression for kiling players and defending/taking keeps/towers, you got a title for each rank so your enemies knew instantly if they were fighting experienced players or noobs and initially the ranks were very hard to progress through, a RR10 in the early days was quite a thing to behold and some players gained international notoriety such as Sheph, the first RR10 in the game and his guild group Dem Hibbies (plus friends, they rarely actually had an 8-man guild group out), the best known 8-man group in the game. 10 years on and i STILL remember this guild, i can name most of them simply from memory even now, years later (Tusk, Bittlitten, Sheph, Domain, Lovelymagic). We fought some other great guild throughout the years, won a few, lost most, but always had fun and always knew when we had beated the better players, what a rush to destroy top guild groups it was.

GW2 lacks this, there are no hero's in this game, no players are able to elevate themselves and stand out from the crowd, there is simply nothing to strive for, no skill beyond zerging and no real competition. At the moment the only reason to WvWvW is for a bit of instant fun, which is all well and good, but is that enough to keep people coming back for more? Im not so sure it is.

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18932

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/13/12 7:29:30 AM#4
Remember the other big reason DAOC's pvp was popular is in addition to fighting for personal progression you were also trying to gain access/control of Darkness Falls, (the best gear/moneymaking spot in the game) which could only be accessed by the faction with the most Keeps. Toss in the final incentive of realm relics which boosted both PVP & PVE strength and you truly has something worth fighting for. I just don't see the same hooks in GW2,, heck when WAR failed to provide them.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5003

10/13/12 8:40:29 AM#5

It's pretty amazing that after all these years DAOC still did large scale medieval RvR better than the games who tried to take that concept to the next level. Warhammer online tried and failed horribly, GW2 is not even close.

why?

I guess DAoC RvR was the pinnacle that no other game will ever match..... It's just hard to accept this, but so far it seems to be true.

  timeraider

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/11
Posts: 550

10/13/12 9:16:10 AM#6
Lack of progression.. sure. But being in a guild with alot of dedicated teamplaying WvWers i can say WvW is fun as hell, especially with teamspeak etc. we have been doing wvw for weeks now :D
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4585

10/13/12 9:23:36 AM#7

What happens in the Mists, stays in the Mists. What happens in SPVP, stays in SPVP, What happens in Map Exploration, stays in Map Exploration. Etc etc. GW2 feels like a bunch of disconnected, independant mini games under a single title. While each  component is done well and fun, as an MMORPG, this just doesn't work.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

10/13/12 9:26:45 AM#8
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Yeah, I agree, lack of meaningful progression in WvW is one of the real flaws I see in GW2 at the moment. I hope they address this eventually, probably after their big sPvP patch.

Imo, there should be some kind of "renown" or "glory" or whatever in WvW which can be traded for specific gear or titles or something. Additionally, the xp rewards should be upped, especially taking into account that WvW has a highly unpredictable xp gain rate by its very nature (the mobs are always there, enemy players on a huge map not so much). Imo Anet should look into Mythic's experience with WAR where they had pretty much the same set of problems with open world PvP rewards that took the better part of a year to solve. Personally I wouldn't mind "parallel PvP levelling" with its own set of levels that would take much longer than PvE ones to complete; imo WAR had that done all right but considering how ANet functions, they could improve on that model.

I was really disappointed when i realise that i can not buy specific gear for W V W with karma. And i have no interest in SPVP. Players who enjoy W v W should get more options to customize their characters.

And no i am not talking about copy pasting PVE gear like they did in SPVP which imo is cheap and lazy.

  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

10/13/12 9:47:59 AM#9
Originally posted by DMKano

It's pretty amazing that after all these years DAOC still did large scale medieval RvR better than the games who tried to take that concept to the next level. Warhammer online tried and failed horribly, GW2 is not even close.

why?

I guess DAoC RvR was the pinnacle that no other game will ever match..... It's just hard to accept this, but so far it seems to be true.

 i actually agree with you. Daoc is still the pinnacle for rvr.

gW2 could be the pinnacle, but they would need a few things added.

1) a darkness falls equivilent to fight over based off of terriroty control

2) only change servers when there is a severe imbalance or maybe once a year.

 

  Zeus.CM

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1797

www.croatian-maniacs.com

10/13/12 9:57:59 AM#10

Playing with a guild and with more than 15 people changes the experience in WvW completely. In 3 hours I got 15 000 karma, 25 badges of honor. At first we were circling around the map taking camps, when more people came we took 2 towers and a keep.

WvW is not rewarding if you dont have guild to play with or if you don't find a group of people that are well organized or if you don't find a good commander (because I know there are some useless commanders).

In the picture, banners of my guild :)

  LIOKI

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 160

10/13/12 12:15:12 PM#11
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Yeah, I agree, lack of meaningful progression in WvW is one of the real flaws I see in GW2 at the moment. I hope they address this eventually, probably after their big sPvP patch.

Imo, there should be some kind of "renown" or "glory" or whatever in WvW which can be traded for specific gear or titles or something. Additionally, the xp rewards should be upped, especially taking into account that WvW has a highly unpredictable xp gain rate by its very nature (the mobs are always there, enemy players on a huge map not so much). Imo Anet should look into Mythic's experience with WAR where they had pretty much the same set of problems with open world PvP rewards that took the better part of a year to solve. Personally I wouldn't mind "parallel PvP levelling" with its own set of levels that would take much longer than PvE ones to complete; imo WAR had that done all right but considering how ANet functions, they could improve on that model.

I was really disappointed when i realise that i can not buy specific gear for W V W with karma. And i have no interest in SPVP. Players who enjoy W v W should get more options to customize their characters.

And no i am not talking about copy pasting PVE gear like they did in SPVP which imo is cheap and lazy.

I agree..where is this awesome looking gear progression everyone was so goo goo over? couple hundred thousand karma points and absolutley not a damn thing to buy with it.

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

  User Deleted
10/13/12 12:41:58 PM#12
Originally posted by Kyleran
Remember the other big reason DAOC's pvp was popular is in addition to fighting for personal progression you were also trying to gain access/control of Darkness Falls, (the best gear/moneymaking spot in the game) which could only be accessed by the faction with the most Keeps. Toss in the final incentive of realm relics which boosted both PVP & PVE strength and you truly has something worth fighting for. I just don't see the same hooks in GW2,, heck when WAR failed to provide them.

You will not find many AAA mmos giving incentives like that anymore because of the "not fair !!!" crying brigade which predominates in mmos these days.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7156

10/13/12 12:54:25 PM#13

As far as the badges, I seemed to get more if I looted them off the  enemy myself vs a bag spawn at my feet. 

 

Bar far the best way to get badges in with a arrow cart or treb. Sit on a wall and collect. The problem is that carts and trebs  cost either gold or the very badges you need for the your set *cash shop*. I found myself buy carts and trebs hoping to make gold back, and collect a few badges, so that I could do it all over again I was slowly going broke. 

 

As far as progression? there is none out there. It felt like a gold sink by the end.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1454

10/13/12 1:03:44 PM#14
Originally posted by Kyleran
Remember the other big reason DAOC's pvp was popular is in addition to fighting for personal progression you were also trying to gain access/control of Darkness Falls, (the best gear/moneymaking spot in the game) which could only be accessed by the faction with the most Keeps. Toss in the final incentive of realm relics which boosted both PVP & PVE strength and you truly has something worth fighting for. I just don't see the same hooks in GW2,, heck when WAR failed to provide them.

Yeap. There is a lack of accomplishment. And i dont talk neccessarily about progression(or RealmRank), but to seriously gain something. And Darkness Falls in DAoC was something like that. And it even added another kind of pvp which was rather fun to...to clean up DF or to stay there. And another factor is(from my sandbox view of point) it is rather static in general.

Originally posted by rungard
Originally posted by DMKano

It's pretty amazing that after all these years DAOC still did large scale medieval RvR better than the games who tried to take that concept to the next level. Warhammer online tried and failed horribly, GW2 is not even close.

why?

I guess DAoC RvR was the pinnacle that no other game will ever match..... It's just hard to accept this, but so far it seems to be true.

 i actually agree with you. Daoc is still the pinnacle for rvr.

gW2 could be the pinnacle, but they would need a few things added.

1) a darkness falls equivilent to fight over based off of terriroty control

2) only change servers when there is a severe imbalance or maybe once a year.

 

And i would add to that list:

- be able to recognise other players (like in DAoC with the name at least in the kill spam, or other ways)

- and i wished the WvW zone would be a little bit bigger(not really with more keeps) to be able to run around solo or in small groups for a fight. After all one keep, one depot is beside the other and not a lot of room inbetween, so not a lot of room for smaller fights.

- and another thing is, that at least as i see it at the moment, the ability to beat with less people a whole lot more. Now with the absence of strong healing or CC(and honestly healing or cc is not the problem and i dont miss them) it is not that easy to take out 3times the number you are(if even possible). And the unability to spam AE may contribute to that, too. And that was a very strong point of DAoC to.. ok a lot of ppl complained about it, but it was just a rush to beat a damn small zerg with just a few ppl.

And in my viewpoint overall the skills have to high reuse time, i would like it more with no or almost no cooldown and maybe a little bit less damage instead. Which could be the fourth point.. but it contributes a lot to the third, and is not really about WvW alone.

As example.. i play a mesmer.. and they nerved the class(which is ok in by book.. and i think it was necessary), but what they did is not so ok for me.. The increased the cooldown time of a few abilities instead of reducing the damage. 3/5 of the time in combat i can only use my autoattack, and i am constantly switching weapons anyways.. well at least it feels like it sometimes.