Originally posted by Boardwalker

Originally posted by asmkm22

Eve also has really uncompelling gameplay for a lot of people, in terms of "combat," and exploration only seems to be rewarding to a very particular kind of person.  For everyone else, it's just one starfield after another, with different color suns.

 

To each his own then. My experience with EVE has been the complete opposite. And as for exploraton, I think EVE has the best possible mechanic for that type of gameplay, by far.

My EVE experiences have been the same as Boardwalker. True, the built-in storylines are rather meh in quality, and the combat isn't twitch-based...but the player-made storylines and the profound amount of tactics involved in the combat (at least in PvP) is completely unlike anything I've ever seen or even heard of. And that's not even including the almost ridiculously realistic economy. There have been several occasions where I did something in Eve or went through a particular event, and afterwards I literally said to myself "Did I really just do that in a videogame?". Being a critical cargo hauler for a previous corp in a wormhole and some specific hijinx in Nullsec are among my fondest memories in my entire gaming career.

As for the OPs statement...yeah, pretty much all other MMOs currently out are same old, same old (or even worse, same mechanics but easier), and like you I've also tried dozens. WoW was my first main one in fact. There are only a handful of pending MMOs that I am looking forward to: World of Darkness, Darkfall:Unholy Wars and The Repopulation. World of Darkness is at the top of my list in anticipation; CCP is the only company that has proved in my eyes that they know what the hell they are doing when it comes to making a good MMO.

---

Originally posted by CalmOceans
An elf sounding like a burly guy through the mic is not immersive for me, nor is a dog barking through the mic, or an orge with a little kid's voice. Or that one guy we all know who won't shut off his music in the background.

Mics totally kill immersion for me.

I have never found typing to be annoying, unless the game is too fast.

Actually I should have added that on that list, a fast paced game detracts from the community.

I believe part of the reason Everquest had one of the best communities, if not the best, of any MMO to date, is likely it's slow-paced gameplay which allowed for chat sessions.

---

Ding ding ding. This. +1 Bravo!

Tried eve and played it about a year in 2003/2004. Loved many elements of the game. Quit because:

1. You never truly control your ship; you, instead, right click on stuff and select 'go here.'

2. Death penalty is stupidly bad. You can invest all your money in a good ship or invest half your money in a weaker (but insured) ship. I don't like being forced to spend only half my coin.

3. Confusing equipment. Very small ships can take out considerably bigger ships. To me, that's like a level 5 character ganking a level 25 character. You think "what just happened."

4. Profanity. Heinous, juvenile, everpresent profanity. Never experienced anything even remotely like it in any online game.

5. Atrocious lag when other players are nearby.

Originally posted by LydarSynn

MMOs haven't changed- thats the real problem. I enjoyed MMOs when I first started playing until I realized they are all giant hamster wheels- themeparks in particular. I won't play any themepark MMO ever again.

MMOs need to go the way of the War Z IMO.  Add some realism elements (eating, drinking), maybe political stuff for fantasy or medevel MMOs, make death meaningful- in short do something different. There are plenty of MMOs where you are supposed to be some sort of hero (along with everyone else) and every toon has ridiculous powers.  How about a game where the players actually have to struggle to achieve something- that would be different.

Right now, the only games that even remotely have the things I am looking for are the War Z,  the Dead Linger (probably doesn't qualify as an MMO) and Wizardry Online. I think any innovation that comes along will most likely come from smaller development teams.

You just proved that they HAVE changed. And that's the issue for me. You used to have to eat and drink, and things were actually challenging. The things you brought up as ideas WERE in MMOs. People complained and complained, and, wanting to continue to make money, developers started acting upon those complaints until we have the watered-down crap we have today, where you don't have to put much effort in to get your quick satisfaction.

So now, if someone DID come out with a game that is like the previous generation of MMOs, many people (mostly being lazy with little attention span) wouldn't stick around, and those who enjoyed the challenge would be left with no one to play with.

Same here. I'm totally uninterested and bored by the current crop of  themepark MMOs.

I'm hoping DF:UW will deliver a more exciting experience than all these instanced-to-death lobby MMOs we have these days.

Originally posted by Yamota
OP you are not losing interest in MMO's, you are losing interest in ThemePark MMO's. So join the club, there are lots of us who want a deeper experience but for the last few years all the triple A MMO's have been created for children with low attention span. Only big budget MMO I see which is not like that is ArcheAge and that is still years from coming to the west so maybe take a break from MMO's and come back when it has matured a bit.

Exactly.

Many posters on this forum (not only the OP) cannot find what they look for in the current crop of AAA themeparks from the big publishers - but they buy every single one of those. Small wonder that the publishers rub their hands, great, another million boxes sold.

And, to the OP, if you don't share the mass market demand for easy, shallow, flashy action games, well, then don't buy mass market games. Who knows, maybe indies and sandboxes wouldn't be so underfinanced, understuffed and badly managed if more people would actually buy them. 

Originally posted by ste2000
MMOs 8 years ago were worlds..................today MMOs are just games.

Short, but succinct, I like it.  Sums up how I feel about the situation pretty well.

Decided to retreat back to EVE and stay there until something truly interesting comes out.

Might be there a long time.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by ste2000
MMOs 8 years ago were worlds..................today MMOs are just games.

Short, but succinct, I like it.  Sums up how I feel about the situation pretty well.

Decided to retreat back to EVE and stay there until something truly interesting comes out.

Might be there a long time.

I have to agree here as well. Don't get me wrong, I like GW2 but at the end of the day it's just a Massive Multiplayer Online Game. I started with UO which was more of a virtual world than simply a game. We don't get to see many virtual worlds anymore. 

Originally posted by Badaboom
Kyleran, are you going to try darkfall unholy wars?

Yes, you caught me, I am going to slip out and give DF:UW a try, but I won't be cancelling my EVE subs in the meantime.

Not sure I'm cut out for the more challenging experience of DF, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Originally posted by ste2000
MMOs 8 years ago were worlds..................today MMOs are just games.

Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".

Originally posted by Quirhid

Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".

couldn't be more off the mark. If games 8 years ago were so bad why does SWG have a almost Cult following even after it shut down. Or WoW? with (according to them)over 10mil in subs? EQI or EQII?  Not sure where you were 8 years ago but I was playing with alot more people in mmos then I can say for most current mmo's. F2P ones aside that are flooded with tight A$$es that cry about even the option of a monthly sub. Sure we had fewer options but they were better options and I'm not alone in that idea.

Originally posted by vonryan123

Originally posted by Quirhid

Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".

couldn't be more off the mark. If games 8 years ago were so bad why does SWG have a almost Cult following even after it shut down. Or WoW? with (according to them)over 10mil in subs? EQI or EQII?  Not sure where you were 8 years ago but I was playing with alot more people in mmos then I can say for most current mmo's. F2P ones aside that are flooded with tight A$$es that cry about even the option of a monthly sub. Sure we had fewer options but they were better options and I'm not alone in that idea.

8+ years ago MMOs were very much a niche. Now they rival SP games in sales. I rest my case.

Even Reliant Robin has a fan club and dedicated following but still that doesn't make it a good car.

I haven't played an MMO in maybe a year or more myself. Still keeping my eye's open in case something interesting comes along and there are a few smaller/indie projects on the horizon that I'm looking at. Might give PS2 a whirl when it comes out of beta but that's more of a MMOFPS.

I find that even alot of the single player games coming out today are pretty, meh.  Skyrim was one big exception. I find myself doing alot of PBEM Turn Based Strategy Games (the guys over at Matrix Games sell alot of the stuff I like) and trying to get more into the virtual tabletop PnP stuff.

Every once in awhile a good single player game will come out that evinces some of the quality of the older classic games. For example I lost about 20 hours last weekend playing Fallen Enchantress....which is a real homage to the old masters of magic/ Heroes of Might & Magic style games....and one of the best PC games I've seen come out in a long time.

As far as MMO's, I've tried a beta here and there but haven't actualy PLAYED one since I quit LOTRO over a year ago. Right now I'm just in wait and see mode.

---

Originally posted by Elikal
Sigh. For a very long time I was really, really interested in MMOs. I followed the development of each of it, and tried a lot of them. But among the DOZENS of MMO I play, I can only say of three of them, that I played them a long time. Everquest II, SWG and LOTRO. Those were the only MMOs I actually played years.

Now they are all more or less old. So maybe I too changed, but I can't help to think that MMOs changed and most important the community changed. If I recall these three MMOs and the dividing factor compared to the other MMOs, in EQ2, SWG and LOTRO I found an active community. (Lotro speaking of the first 2 years here.)

Ever since then, I never have been in a MMO more than a couple of months, 3-4 at best. And that is not satisfactory. Not at all. All these short-term MMOs I more or less played like a single player game, only that the single player aspect of a MMO is MUCH worse than a real single player game. Overall, I see that as a game itself, MMOs are relatively bad games. All of them. For some reasons MMOs never really unfolded their true potential, and I mean NONE of it. All of them are/were more or less crappy, broken, limited and half-baked; only sometimes the setting, sometimes the community, sometimes a few features kept me for a while. Like the 4 months I played my two mains in SWTOR to max, going through 2 story arcs. Or my 3 months in WAR for the RVR.

But overall... MMOs are just a very basic and mediocre form of games, compared how far the other types of computer games evolved. They are also all of them singleminded, like focussed on one or two strengths and totally neglecting the other.

 

Now I sure will come here regularly, follow the ongoings, but after the GW2 letdown (entirely personally speaking!), that after 1-2 months I already feel I have seen enough of it, I see that my time where I was a vivid MMO gamer simply comes to an end, and I feel my aspirations are again more wanting good single player games. Games with a real start, middle and end; games with a real purpose and structure. RPGs, strategy games, adventures, maybe some action games too. I feel I enjoy them nowadays so much more. And it's sad. But I simply cannot find a real community and I just can not join a Guild anymore! I was in many guilds, those of the three MMOs mentioned had the best, but the guilds today... I don't feel I fit into them anymore. They have either too eager powerplayers, too young people with a different focus on life, or they are mere chat channels where nobody ACTUALLY does something together. And I simply have no will to make guild hopping, chosing a new guild every 2 weeks.

It's a pity. I miss the experience I had in the years I played SWG and EQ2 especially. But ever since, I never found that again. And each new MMO just let me down more. SWTOR was a really bad experience which left me scarred and GW2... sorry but for ME at least it is so limited and so quick to bore me. I do not blame the game, I know after SO MANY flops and halfassed MMOs I just can't take it anymore. And as I said, the days where MMO gamers were a small, tight knit community are just gone forever. Now it's a mass market for millions, and that just doesn't work for me.

You ain't gonna get rid of me here, but I kinda hadto make a statement for myself here. ;)

---

Well if you ever want to play rift, come to faeblight. I played swg for its duration and tried to get into many mmo both during nge and after they shut it down last year. Faeblight feels like a good mmo home. Hope to see you there :)

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by vonryan123

Originally posted by Quirhid

Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".

couldn't be more off the mark. If games 8 years ago were so bad why does SWG have a almost Cult following even after it shut down. Or WoW? with (according to them)over 10mil in subs? EQI or EQII?  Not sure where you were 8 years ago but I was playing with alot more people in mmos then I can say for most current mmo's. F2P ones aside that are flooded with tight A$$es that cry about even the option of a monthly sub. Sure we had fewer options but they were better options and I'm not alone in that idea.

8+ years ago MMOs were very much a niche. Now they rival SP games in sales. I rest my case.

Even Reliant Robin has a fan club and dedicated following but still that doesn't make it a good car.

I'm not sure How this rebuttle even has bearing on the 1st quote but ok what ever floats your boat

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by ste2000
MMOs 8 years ago were worlds..................today MMOs are just games.

Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".

Disagree, they might have been SIMPLER games or had fewer features doesn't make them WORSE games.

Case in point, I had a buddy back in college with a '65 Buick. Thing was over 20 years old and had over 500K miles on it. No matter what abuse was dished out it kept running like a race horse. A couple years back my boss (at the time) bought himself one of those fancy new hybrids, had all the bells and whistles on it. That thing was in the shop every 3 months and nearly killed him when the CPU freaked out and decided to automaticaly accelerate the car on it's own. The '65 Buick was BY FAR the better care even though it didn't have an air-conditioned glove box or a camera for backing up.