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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Kinda losing interest in MMOs...

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  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

 
OP  10/11/12 9:36:34 PM#1

Sigh. For a very long time I was really, really interested in MMOs. I followed the development of each of it, and tried a lot of them. But among the DOZENS of MMO I play, I can only say of three of them, that I played them a long time. Everquest II, SWG and LOTRO. Those were the only MMOs I actually played years.

Now they are all more or less old. So maybe I too changed, but I can't help to think that MMOs changed and most important the community changed. If I recall these three MMOs and the dividing factor compared to the other MMOs, in EQ2, SWG and LOTRO I found an active community. (Lotro speaking of the first 2 years here.)

Ever since then, I never have been in a MMO more than a couple of months, 3-4 at best. And that is not satisfactory. Not at all. All these short-term MMOs I more or less played like a single player game, only that the single player aspect of a MMO is MUCH worse than a real single player game. Overall, I see that as a game itself, MMOs are relatively bad games. All of them. For some reasons MMOs never really unfolded their true potential, and I mean NONE of it. All of them are/were more or less crappy, broken, limited and half-baked; only sometimes the setting, sometimes the community, sometimes a few features kept me for a while. Like the 4 months I played my two mains in SWTOR to max, going through 2 story arcs. Or my 3 months in WAR for the RVR.

But overall... MMOs are just a very basic and mediocre form of games, compared how far the other types of computer games evolved. They are also all of them singleminded, like focussed on one or two strengths and totally neglecting the other.

 

Now I sure will come here regularly, follow the ongoings, but after the GW2 letdown (entirely personally speaking!), that after 1-2 months I already feel I have seen enough of it, I see that my time where I was a vivid MMO gamer simply comes to an end, and I feel my aspirations are again more wanting good single player games. Games with a real start, middle and end; games with a real purpose and structure. RPGs, strategy games, adventures, maybe some action games too. I feel I enjoy them nowadays so much more. And it's sad. But I simply cannot find a real community and I just can not join a Guild anymore! I was in many guilds, those of the three MMOs mentioned had the best, but the guilds today... I don't feel I fit into them anymore. They have either too eager powerplayers, too young people with a different focus on life, or they are mere chat channels where nobody ACTUALLY does something together. And I simply have no will to make guild hopping, chosing a new guild every 2 weeks.

It's a pity. I miss the experience I had in the years I played SWG and EQ2 especially. But ever since, I never found that again. And each new MMO just let me down more. SWTOR was a really bad experience which left me scarred and GW2... sorry but for ME at least it is so limited and so quick to bore me. I do not blame the game, I know after SO MANY flops and halfassed MMOs I just can't take it anymore. And as I said, the days where MMO gamers were a small, tight knit community are just gone forever. Now it's a mass market for millions, and that just doesn't work for me.

You ain't gonna get rid of me here, but I kinda had to make a statement for myself here. ;)

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  LydarSynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/03
Posts: 177

10/11/12 9:50:36 PM#2

MMOs haven't changed- thats the real problem. I enjoyed MMOs when I first started playing until I realized they are all giant hamster wheels- themeparks in particular. I won't play any themepark MMO ever again.

MMOs need to go the way of the War Z IMO.  Add some realism elements (eating, drinking), maybe political stuff for fantasy or medevel MMOs, make death meaningful- in short do something different. There are plenty of MMOs where you are supposed to be some sort of hero (along with everyone else) and every toon has ridiculous powers.  How about a game where the players actually have to struggle to achieve something- that would be different.

Right now, the only games that even remotely have the things I am looking for are the War Z,  the Dead Linger (probably doesn't qualify as an MMO) and Wizardry Online. I think any innovation that comes along will most likely come from smaller development teams.

  Arakazi

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 864

10/11/12 9:52:04 PM#3
Well, MMOS are more narrowly focused on gameplay rather than the community aspects. Althought the trumpet the community but things like dungeon finder and dynamic grouping etc. is primarly there to improve a players gameplay experience rather than  anything social. Although I can understand your furstration I feel that any online interaction will always be a shallow experience in comparison to something as simple as sitting in a cafe with a friend during your lunch break.

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/11.jpg></a></p>RL][/CENTER]

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 762

10/11/12 10:47:42 PM#4
Originally posted by LydarSynn

MMOs haven't changed- thats the real problem. I enjoyed MMOs when I first started playing until I realized they are all giant hamster wheels- themeparks in particular. I won't play any themepark MMO ever again.

MMOs need to go the way of the War Z IMO.  Add some realism elements (eating, drinking), maybe political stuff for fantasy or medevel MMOs, make death meaningful- in short do something different. There are plenty of MMOs where you are supposed to be some sort of hero (along with everyone else) and every toon has ridiculous powers.  How about a game where the players actually have to struggle to achieve something- that would be different.

Right now, the only games that even remotely have the things I am looking for are the War Z,  the Dead Linger (probably doesn't qualify as an MMO) and Wizardry Online. I think any innovation that comes along will most likely come from smaller development teams.

MMOs have changed, just not in the past 8 years.

  IrishChai

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 537

10/11/12 11:26:55 PM#5

 

I think MMOs have changed in a lot of minor ways, but that feels like a result of a relatively new genre finding it's own ground. It's part community and developers trying to elaborate since the days of Ultima Online & Everquest about what makes an MMO, and above that, what makes a great MMO. They haven't found it yet, at least across the board with the community's agreement. Maybe they never will, but I think there is enough choice right now that if you don't like anything you see, you are probably bored with the genre or maybe isn't for you.

 

There's a lot of people playing and enjoying MMOs right now. All these games that have 100k to 1m people playing them every day makes that pretty clear. Just take a break if you're not having fun, and I agree that most of them don't stand up to other gaming experiences available. It was a pretty niche genre until WoW released, and now that people are burning out on WoW, I think it is going back to more of a niche genre again. There are better RPGs, FPS, RTS, ARPG, etc. out there because they aren't trying to be a hybrid, but there isn't anything quite like an MMORPG where you can just get online and socialize with masses of rpg fans to go and make your own adventure together.

 

The community used to be a LOT more active with each other in all the early MMOs and that fell apart with all of these soloable mechanics being introduced for people that didn't understand 'massively multiplayer' means working out the details and socializing together to deepen the game. I'm impressed with GW2 for bringing back a few things to revive that multiplayer spirit but the genre has a long way to go to regain territory there. GW2 can't just do it alone because it has enough character that it isn't designed to be a game for everyone, and I'm sure we'll all agree there will never be a game that is.

 

The other genres will just beat these hybrid mmos at their own game if these developers keep trying 'something new' by combining random elements from other games. I think that will dissolve in to all these casual F2P and mobile games with constant advertisements about how you can help keep the game afloat, or go to a better game that's worth the money from the beginning. I'm choosing the latter more often than not lately because there are a lot of great games out. Maybe we'll see more multiplayer aspects added to our favorite single player games to bridge that gap between playing with friends and playing with a massive amount of strangers in a relatively cheap MMO where the community has to foot the bill for weaker content.

  Simphanatic

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/12
Posts: 94

The problem with virtually every MMORPG: too much Pavlov and not enough Maslow.

10/11/12 11:32:17 PM#6

The OP mirrors my sentiment EXACTLY.

 

The problem as I see it is that so many MMOs are little more than websites providing us with varying carrot and stick quests, where PvP and economy are little more than second thoughts.

 

SWTOR wasn't a bad game, when compared to anything else on the market, it just didn't deliver on the promise of an open world that would give us more than other similar games. Even though I've since tried a few other MMOs, SWTOR really was a nail in the coffin insofar as my long-term MMO participation is concerned.

 

In short, I want a gaming world that can be a destination in and of itself. I want to live in that world, not merely do a series of stale, constrained quests. Before I ever invest my time and money in another MMO, it absolutely must meet these criteria:

  1. Have a dynamic, player-influenced, open environment
  2. Possess a fluid, impactful economy that is not at all affected by infusion of real-world money
  3. Provide meaningful player professions intrinsic to the economy
  4. Furnish recreational venues that players can engage in when not in combat or working
  5. Give players the opportunity to construct residences
  6. Have non artifical, open PvP -- the world should be a risky place
  7. There must be a player-regulated system for penalizing gankers, scammers, and other evil doers
  8. Quests/missions are ok, but should not be a central focus of the game world (I'd prefer to see them as a starting point to game play -- a world introduction -- certainly not a destination)
  9. Community is not a factor because if the foregoing are executed properly community will follow
Unless I see all these in an MMO I'm not bothering with it. I am just fine reading books; watching movies; or, gawd forbid, playing the latest Sims 3 expansion.
  Pumuckl71

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 127

10/11/12 11:39:02 PM#7

i had by final burnout with Xsyon ... so much hope went into it from my side and  in the end i ended up in a huge world full of eveything  but active players . The game was released and almost instantly the moaning and bitching began:

I want permadeath

No more safe zones

This and that sucks

Coding is bad (as if anyone of those smartasses could done it better) ect ect.

After that i had my fill ...fed up  from mmos

 

In between ii thought bout Swotor...boy im glad i didnt fall for that

GW2 ...well GW1 teached me the lesson not to fall for that too

Secret world ...too much not mmo tbh

and maybe maybe maybe ill look into TES online ...but  my gut telling me dont hold your breath on that either

 

so im kinda perma burned out i guess

  Br3akingDawn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 1330

10/11/12 11:40:22 PM#8
Originally posted by Magiknight
Originally posted by LydarSynn

MMOs haven't changed- thats the real problem. I enjoyed MMOs when I first started playing until I realized they are all giant hamster wheels- themeparks in particular. I won't play any themepark MMO ever again.

MMOs need to go the way of the War Z IMO.  Add some realism elements (eating, drinking), maybe political stuff for fantasy or medevel MMOs, make death meaningful- in short do something different. There are plenty of MMOs where you are supposed to be some sort of hero (along with everyone else) and every toon has ridiculous powers.  How about a game where the players actually have to struggle to achieve something- that would be different.

Right now, the only games that even remotely have the things I am looking for are the War Z,  the Dead Linger (probably doesn't qualify as an MMO) and Wizardry Online. I think any innovation that comes along will most likely come from smaller development teams.

MMOs have changed, just not in the past 8 years.

what do you mean it havent changed, everything is so much easier to play now. at least for me, thats how much mmo has changed. 

  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 956

10/11/12 11:43:29 PM#9
Swtor was the last hurrah for me as far that type of MMO goes. MWO, Hawken & the upcoming Marvel MMO will all get a look. No more MMO titles will monopolise my time.
  Sinaku

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 481

10/11/12 11:44:01 PM#10

I am in the same boat as you. I have hyped myself for multiple MMOs and videogames in general. I always seem to be let down but people always rave these games. I finally came to the conclusion that it's not entirely the games fault (as a lot of them do offer really enjoyable things to many people) it was me growing out of videogames.

Of course there are still many games I find myself drawn to and happy to play from time to time. Most of these are single player RPGs or FPS(not COD or BF) games like Monster Hunter, Zelda, Skyrim/Morrowind/Pokemon games :P/Minecraft/War of The Roses/Blacklight.

I have come to terms with this and will not be following many developing games. The only one that seem to be decent that are left to me is FFXIV A Realm Reborn, the new Darkfall release, Conquer Online 3.0, and Archeage(Pretty large list for someone not caring about MMOs I know haha). Other than these games I think I am done. Tera was good, GW2 was good, and WoW held my interest for many many years but I don't think I can give the time to these games that they require.

I will always remember all of the good moments I had in WoW Vanilla-Cataclysm. I will always remember all of the Guild Wars that I participated in Conquer Online. I will remember exploring the beautiful and vast world of Vanguard. I will remember the brief moments of Tera where my guild and I would open world PvP (and dominate I might say). These are good times but like everything in life we grow from this and move on.

  Threatlevel0

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 166

10/11/12 11:46:36 PM#11
Originally posted by Simphanatic

The OP mirrors my sentiment EXACTLY.

 

The problem as I see it is that so many MMOs are little more than websites providing us with varying carrot and stick quests, where PvP and economy are little more than second thoughts.

 

SWTOR wasn't a bad game, when compared to anything else on the market, it just didn't deliver on the promise of an open world that would give us more than other similar games. Even though I've since tried a few other MMOs, SWTOR really was a nail in the coffin insofar as my long-term MMO participation is concerned.

 

In short, I want a gaming world that can be a destination in and of itself. I want to live in that world, not merely do a series of stale, constrained quests. Before I ever invest my time and money in another MMO, it absolutely must meet these criteria:

  1. Have a dynamic, player-influenced, open environment
  2. Possess a fluid, impactful economy that is not at all affected by infusion of real-world money
  3. Provide meaningful player professions intrinsic to the economy
  4. Furnish recreational venues that players can engage in when not in combat or working
  5. Give players the opportunity to construct residences
  6. Have non artifical, open PvP -- the world should be a risky place
  7. There must be a player-regulated system for penalizing gankers, scammers, and other evil doers
  8. Quests/missions are ok, but should not be a central focus of the game world (I'd prefer to see them as a starting point to game play -- a world introduction -- certainly not a destination)
  9. Community is not a factor because if the foregoing are executed properly community will follow
Unless I see all these in an MMO I'm not bothering with it. I am just fine reading books; watching movies; or, gawd forbid, playing the latest Sims 3 expansion.

 

That should be the list for any MMORPG Manifesto in my opinion.

 

 I'm still appalled that all the new 'mainstream' MMO's are almost solely focused on story, personal stories, cinematics, voice-overs, or perhaps I should just call it the "Fourth Pillar" now.  If I want a story I to am just fine reading my books or watching shows.  If I wanted to become immersed into an RPG world that is what I thought MMORPG's would be there for. 

 

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

10/11/12 11:51:16 PM#12

Elikal, I agree with what you said.

 

I grew up with BBS games, which evolved to MUD's, which evolved to MMORPG's.  These early games were completely involved around interactions with other players.  Nowadays? meh.  GW2 was a letdown for me as well, it's just not a "personable game" .. is that better than anti-social, fans?

 

This weekend I'm gonna try out the new XCOM, though I heard a review that it's not as "creepy" as the original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93M_fLmmecU).  The new Sim City game looks pretty flippin good too (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWLClUwAHGc)

 

I dunno .. I may just leave MMO's for awhile because they are so non-immersive these days, and everything is "casual". Bleech!  It's really no wonder why MMO's are going F2P - they don't offer anything to keep players paying a subscription!

 

Maybe a MMO crash would be healthy for gamers. /sigh

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  IfrianMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/12
Posts: 215

10/11/12 11:51:50 PM#13

I think all of us mmo veterans miss the same thing.

-The communities that were forged in those small, tight mmos, where your name and actions had a value, and where each player was important and needed. because the journey was long, difficult, and required friends and partnership.

But then the crowd that hated mmo´s or had no actual time to play them decided they wanted to be part of the cool crowd too,  the devs took notice of the chances at big $ and there we go.

Nowadays mmorpgs are not mmorpgs, and are played by people who detest what mmorpgs truly are.

 

  Pumuckl71

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 127

10/11/12 11:54:11 PM#14

the thing is one players idea of innovation is a set back to another player .

Specially extremes in game mechanics wont work out.

Maybe we can compare it with  Sports , once evey 10-30 years a special skilled player pops oout and does magic.

Tis proly the same with game developing studios.

To bad were on a long mediocre  stretch since  since 2004.

  Simphanatic

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/12
Posts: 94

The problem with virtually every MMORPG: too much Pavlov and not enough Maslow.

10/11/12 11:59:33 PM#15

Has anyone here read The Ranger's Apprentice series of books, by John Flanagan?

 

Lord, give me an MMORPG based loosely on that world, setup as I've described above, and I could be in seventh heaven.

  Boardwalker

Novice Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 383

10/12/12 12:00:22 AM#16
Originally posted by Simphanatic

Before I ever invest my time and money in another MMO, it absolutely must meet these criteria:

  1. Have a dynamic, player-influenced, open environment
  2. Possess a fluid, impactful economy that is not at all affected by infusion of real-world money
  3. Provide meaningful player professions intrinsic to the economy
  4. Furnish recreational venues that players can engage in when not in combat or working
  5. Give players the opportunity to construct residences
  6. Have non artifical, open PvP -- the world should be a risky place
  7. There must be a player-regulated system for penalizing gankers, scammers, and other evil doers
  8. Quests/missions are ok, but should not be a central focus of the game world (I'd prefer to see them as a starting point to game play -- a world introduction -- certainly not a destination)
  9. Community is not a factor because if the foregoing are executed properly community will follow

 

Kudos, you just described EVE. Look me up ingame and I'll help you get started with the best MMO available today.

They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days

  User Deleted
10/12/12 12:02:12 AM#17

I'm with you.

I really started up with WoW, then LotRO and some EQ2.  For all the hate WoW gets around here, and all the crappy design changes they've made over the years, it really used to be a great MMO for me.  It's just long in the tooth, and way too simplified these days.

I was kind of holding out hope for SWtOR, but that turned out to be a major letdown :/

There is litterally nothing on the horizon that has me the least bit excited.  In terms of IP, the Elder Scrolls Online game should be interesting, but once they stated they are just doing the same old crap that WoW does, I flushed that dream down the toilet as well.

The worst part is, there aren't really any good single player RPG's to look forward to etiher, because all of the big publishers are focusing on consoles and making sure they have multiplayer or cash shop/dlc components to them.

All in all, it's a bad time for the industry right now.

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 762

10/12/12 12:03:48 AM#18
Originally posted by Threatlevel0
Originally posted by Simphanatic

The OP mirrors my sentiment EXACTLY.

 

The problem as I see it is that so many MMOs are little more than websites providing us with varying carrot and stick quests, where PvP and economy are little more than second thoughts.

 

SWTOR wasn't a bad game, when compared to anything else on the market, it just didn't deliver on the promise of an open world that would give us more than other similar games. Even though I've since tried a few other MMOs, SWTOR really was a nail in the coffin insofar as my long-term MMO participation is concerned.

 

In short, I want a gaming world that can be a destination in and of itself. I want to live in that world, not merely do a series of stale, constrained quests. Before I ever invest my time and money in another MMO, it absolutely must meet these criteria:

  1. Have a dynamic, player-influenced, open environment
  2. Possess a fluid, impactful economy that is not at all affected by infusion of real-world money
  3. Provide meaningful player professions intrinsic to the economy
  4. Furnish recreational venues that players can engage in when not in combat or working
  5. Give players the opportunity to construct residences
  6. Have non artifical, open PvP -- the world should be a risky place
  7. There must be a player-regulated system for penalizing gankers, scammers, and other evil doers
  8. Quests/missions are ok, but should not be a central focus of the game world (I'd prefer to see them as a starting point to game play -- a world introduction -- certainly not a destination)
  9. Community is not a factor because if the foregoing are executed properly community will follow
Unless I see all these in an MMO I'm not bothering with it. I am just fine reading books; watching movies; or, gawd forbid, playing the latest Sims 3 expansion.

 

That should be the list for any MMORPG Manifesto in my opinion.

 

 I'm still appalled that all the new 'mainstream' MMO's are almost solely focused on story, personal stories, cinematics, voice-overs, or perhaps I should just call it the "Fourth Pillar" now.  If I want a story I to am just fine reading my books or watching shows.  If I wanted to become immersed into an RPG world that is what I thought MMORPG's would be there for. 

 

 Being immersed in an RPG world and having a good story are not exclusive.  However, 95% of the games that have attempted to create stories have made game worlds that are not immersive.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

 
OP  10/12/12 12:04:18 AM#19
Originally posted by IfrianMMO

I think all of us mmo veterans miss the same thing.

-The communities that were forged in those small, tight mmos, where your name and actions had a value, and where each player was important and needed. because the journey was long, difficult, and required friends and partnership.

But then the crowd that hated mmo´s or had no actual time to play them decided they wanted to be part of the cool crowd too,  the devs took notice of the chances at big $ and there we go.

Nowadays mmorpgs are not mmorpgs, and are played by people who detest what mmorpgs truly are.

 

The old MMOs were kinda like the small pub at the corner, where everyone knew you; now it is replaced with a giant shopping mall.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  User Deleted
10/12/12 12:04:46 AM#20
Originally posted by Boardwalker
Originally posted by Simphanatic

Before I ever invest my time and money in another MMO, it absolutely must meet these criteria:

  1. Have a dynamic, player-influenced, open environment
  2. Possess a fluid, impactful economy that is not at all affected by infusion of real-world money
  3. Provide meaningful player professions intrinsic to the economy
  4. Furnish recreational venues that players can engage in when not in combat or working
  5. Give players the opportunity to construct residences
  6. Have non artifical, open PvP -- the world should be a risky place
  7. There must be a player-regulated system for penalizing gankers, scammers, and other evil doers
  8. Quests/missions are ok, but should not be a central focus of the game world (I'd prefer to see them as a starting point to game play -- a world introduction -- certainly not a destination)
  9. Community is not a factor because if the foregoing are executed properly community will follow

 

Kudos, you just described EVE. Look me up ingame and I'll help you get started with the best MMO available today.

Eve also has really uncompelling gameplay for a lot of people, in terms of "combat," and exploration only seems to be rewarding to a very particular kind of person.  For everyone else, it's just one starfield after another, with different color suns.

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