Trending Games | WildStar | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online | Neverwinter

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,639,088 Users Online:0
Games:678  Posts:6,073,665
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » This game is a bad joke.

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 Search
93 posts found
  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2594

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

10/11/12 12:53:25 PM#81
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Ramonski7

 

There are no "goals" in sandbox games:

  • Terraria
  • Minecraft
  • Sims

 

I would say that the goals are your own so there are goals.

And yes, one CAN do many of those things in a thempark game. I should know as that's how I tend to play them.

However, the thing about theme park games of any type is that it usually is a linnear experience with appropriate walls to keep you from certain areas and limited amounts of things to do. Though I would also say that any type of sandbox game can have limited things to do. As per a real sandbox you really are limited to what the sand can allow and what toys you can put in there.

Since we are talking about Elderscrolls games and sandbox mmo's one should at least look at things in the correct contenxt. Terraria, minecraft and sims are not mmo's. Multiplayer components not withstanding. I would go as far as to say that the SIMS is a toy. I don't have sufficient experience in the other two games to make any useful comment other than they aren't mmo's.

There is quite a difference between a UO and a LOTRO or WoW. This difference has been generally divided into "sandbox" and "thempark" so we look toward games that embody attributes that one or the other might have.

In an elderscrolls game I can do what I want. I can kill a town, I can collect things, I can read, I can follow any number of given quests, I can explore, I can gather things and throw them off of bridges, I can lead npc's to their deaths I can role play and pretend I'm a wandering minstrel, etc.

However, if a game is one event after another, such as Dark Messiah, there is very little one can do but go from one event to another.

 

 

Clever, but still you're off a little. I will further clarify "goals" as I mention. If I were to buy an ES game (we are still talking about games here not mmos). There are a set number of static goals that exist for all owners of the game. Not so with the sandbox games I mentioned above.  So if you compare game to game (take your pick) it is clear what games have static goals and those that have fabricated ones. I'll say this much: all games can have fabricated goals.

 

By our very nature we tend to fabricate goals in these games to either get the most out of them or because we enjoy them so much. Whether that be collecting every piece of armor, maxing stats or killing every npc we can. But sandbox games very rarely have static goals beyond the tutorials.

 

And for that part in orange I think you might have meant rpgs, because if you meant mmos, neither is any elder scroll game to date. But if you did mean rpgs, the nI beg to differ. Where does it say anywhere that an sandbox game has to have fantasy based rpging? If anything those three games that a mentioned still allow you to role play.

 

You mentioned that in Elderscrolls you can do what you want, but I cannot. I can't kill key story related npcs, I cannot write a book, I cannot own a town and govern it's populace.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  adam_nox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 1981

10/11/12 12:57:56 PM#82
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Ramonski7

 

There are no "goals" in sandbox games:

  • Terraria
  • Minecraft
  • Sims

 

I would say that the goals are your own so there are goals.

And yes, one CAN do many of those things in a thempark game. I should know as that's how I tend to play them.

However, the thing about theme park games of any type is that it usually is a linnear experience with appropriate walls to keep you from certain areas and limited amounts of things to do. Though I would also say that any type of sandbox game can have limited things to do. As per a real sandbox you really are limited to what the sand can allow and what toys you can put in there.

Since we are talking about Elderscrolls games and sandbox mmo's one should at least look at things in the correct contenxt. Terraria, minecraft and sims are not mmo's. Multiplayer components not withstanding. I would go as far as to say that the SIMS is a toy. I don't have sufficient experience in the other two games to make any useful comment other than they aren't mmo's.

There is quite a difference between a UO and a LOTRO or WoW. This difference has been generally divided into "sandbox" and "thempark" so we look toward games that embody attributes that one or the other might have.

In an elderscrolls game I can do what I want. I can kill a town, I can collect things, I can read, I can follow any number of given quests, I can explore, I can gather things and throw them off of bridges, I can lead npc's to their deaths I can role play and pretend I'm a wandering minstrel, etc.

However, if a game is one event after another, such as Dark Messiah, there is very little one can do but go from one event to another.

 

 

Clever, but still you're off a little. I will further clarify "goals" as I mention. If I were to buy an ES game (we are still talking about games here not mmos). There are a set number of static goals that exist for all owners of the game. Not so with the sandbox games I mentioned above.  So if you compare game to game (take your pick) it is clear what games have static goals and those that have fabricated ones. I'll say this much: all games can have fabricated goals.

 

By our very nature we tend to fabricate goals in these games to either get the most out of them or because we enjoy them so much. Whether that be collecting every piece of armor, maxing stats or killing every npc we can. But sandbox games very rarely have static goals beyond the tutorials.

 

And for that part in orange I think you might have meant rpgs, because if you meant mmos, neither is any elder scroll game to date. But if you did mean rpgs, the nI beg to differ. Where does it say anywhere that an sandbox game has to have fantasy based rpging? If anything those three games that a mentioned still allow you to role play.

 

You mentioned that in Elderscrolls you can do what you want, but I cannot. I can't kill key story related npcs, I cannot write a book, I cannot own a town and govern it's populace.

Obviously no game can let you do everything you want.  But giving you choices and letting you roam and explore, and play the game in what order you want is nice. 

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2594

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

10/11/12 1:01:15 PM#83
Originally posted by sandboxy
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by sandboxy
Originally posted by Ramonski7

There are no "goals" in sandbox games:


 

That means dick, endgoal is just one more option on what you can do in the game. Or do you feel that adding "a goal" to Minecraft would somehow diminish its sandboxiness?

Adding a goal would not, adding a endgoal (as you call it) or a final goal like I mentioned above would. That is what I meant by goal, pardon me for misleading you

No, I understood what you meant. I just think that alone is very a peculiar way to define a sandbox.

Look at it this way, in a sandbox game you are dropped in the game, lead through a short tutorial and then left to your own devices. In a open world/free roaming game you are presented with the same choices but you are also introduced as the protagonist of the story with set number of obstacles created by the antagonist with a final goal that can be accomplished to bring the story to an end.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16599

10/11/12 1:03:48 PM#84
Originally posted by Ramonski7

 

Clever, but still you're off a little. I will further clarify "goals" as I mention. If I were to buy an ES game (we are still talking about games here not mmos). There are a set number of static goals that exist for all owners of the game. Not so with the sandbox games I mentioned above.  So if you compare game to game (take your pick) it is clear what games have static goals and those that have fabricated ones. I'll say this much: all games can have fabricated goals.

 

By our very nature we tend to fabricate goals in these games to either get the most out of them or because we enjoy them so much. Whether that be collecting every piece of armor, maxing stats or killing every npc we can. But sandbox games very rarely have static goals beyond the tutorials.

 

And for that part in orange I think you might have meant rpgs, because if you meant mmos, neither is any elder scroll game to date. But if you did mean rpgs, the nI beg to differ. Where does it say anywhere that an sandbox game has to have fantasy based rpging? If anything those three games that a mentioned still allow you to role play.

 

You mentioned that in Elderscrolls you can do what you want, but I cannot. I can't kill key story related npcs, I cannot write a book, I cannot own a town and govern it's populace.

That's true and is a new wrinkle in the Elderscrolls games. In Oblvion and Skyrim, key people can't be killed. In Morrowind that was possible. This might have been possible in earlier ES games, I can't say for sure.

As far as not being able to take over a town, well, I don't believe one can take over a town in the SIMS. But that might be dependent on the expansion pack. I also can't go to the moon in the SIMS.

It's expected that any game is going to have limitations. Minecraft is definitely a sandbox where you can build things but it's no an mmo.

What sandbox mmo's do we have? Well, there is a list of them on this site. I imagine some things are possible in one that aren't possible in another.

So when we talk about an Elder Scrolls game, then "yes" there are fabricated goals but these fabricated goals are possible because of the sandbox nature of the game. I can't make collections in Neverwinter nights nor can I ignore the main story or play how I want.

In EVE, which is considered a sandbox mmo, I can't do anything and everything I want because there is only so much I can do. I can't land on those planets and walk around. I can't build structures on those planets or take one over and become extremem overlord. That's because it's just not a feature.

er, more later I have to get ready for a meeting.

  sandboxy

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 161

10/11/12 1:10:42 PM#85
Originally posted by Ramonski7

Look at it this way, in a sandbox game you are dropped in the game, lead through a short tutorial and then left to your own devices. In a open world/free roaming game you are presented with the same choices but you are also introduced as the protagonist of the story with set number of obstacles created by the antagonist with a final goal that can be accomplished to bring the story to an end.

Yes, again, I got it the first time. I just find your definition wierd and do not agree with it. I simply don't understand how adding a feature (endgoal) somehow takes away from the games freedom (sandboxiness). If it would somehow restrict gameplay, or force you to follow a certain path, then yes it would obviously work against sandbox.

  Cyberdeck7

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/11
Posts: 241

10/11/12 1:11:55 PM#86
Originally posted by Ramonski7
 

You mentioned that in Elderscrolls you can do what you want, but I cannot. I can't kill key story related npcs, I cannot write a book, I cannot own a town and govern it's populace.

You also can't steal a car or dock a starship. What's the point?

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2594

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

10/11/12 1:42:36 PM#87
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Ramonski7

 

Clever, but still you're off a little. I will further clarify "goals" as I mention. If I were to buy an ES game (we are still talking about games here not mmos). There are a set number of static goals that exist for all owners of the game. Not so with the sandbox games I mentioned above.  So if you compare game to game (take your pick) it is clear what games have static goals and those that have fabricated ones. I'll say this much: all games can have fabricated goals.

 

By our very nature we tend to fabricate goals in these games to either get the most out of them or because we enjoy them so much. Whether that be collecting every piece of armor, maxing stats or killing every npc we can. But sandbox games very rarely have static goals beyond the tutorials.

 

And for that part in orange I think you might have meant rpgs, because if you meant mmos, neither is any elder scroll game to date. But if you did mean rpgs, the nI beg to differ. Where does it say anywhere that an sandbox game has to have fantasy based rpging? If anything those three games that a mentioned still allow you to role play.

 

You mentioned that in Elderscrolls you can do what you want, but I cannot. I can't kill key story related npcs, I cannot write a book, I cannot own a town and govern it's populace.

That's true and is a new wrinkle in the Elderscrolls games. In Oblvion and Skyrim, key people can't be killed. In Morrowind that was possible. This might have been possible in earlier ES games, I can't say for sure.

As far as not being able to take over a town, well, I don't believe one can take over a town in the SIMS. But that might be dependent on the expansion pack. I also can't go to the moon in the SIMS.

It's expected that any game is going to have limitations. Minecraft is definitely a sandbox where you can build things but it's no an mmo.

What sandbox mmo's do we have? Well, there is a list of them on this site. I imagine some things are possible in one that aren't possible in another.

So when we talk about an Elder Scrolls game, then "yes" there are fabricated goals but these fabricated goals are possible because of the sandbox nature of the game. I can't make collections in Neverwinter nights nor can I ignore the main story or play how I want.

In EVE, which is considered a sandbox mmo, I can't do anything and everything I want because there is only so much I can do. I can't land on those planets and walk around. I can't build structures on those planets or take one over and become extremem overlord. That's because it's just not a feature.

er, more later I have to get ready for a meeting.

Ok I'll say this and I'll leave it at that until we both can continue (I have work in 20 minutes, you have your meeting). People tend to equate The Elder Scroll series to sandbox (or sandbox-like) because they can more or less pick up a cup, kill a few harmless npcs and ignore the main story. I do not.

 

And the reason I don't is because you might as well say the same thing about  Reckoning, Fable, GTA, Fallout 3 and host of other open world/free roaming SPRPGs that offer similar pseudo freedoms. Those in the camp of believing that TES is a sandbox-like single player game are going to be slightly disappointed when TESO comes out. It will have more in common with themepark mmos than it will with sandbox mmos.

 

And as far as the examples I gave that you quoted me on. I intentionally avoided hyperbolic examples of taking over a town or going to the moon because I was drawing examples from your own examples of what you said you can do in a ES game. Basically staying in the context of the game you mentioned. In TES I can kill npcs but I cannot kill ALL npcs. I can read books but I cannot write them. And I can own a house but I cannot own all of them.

 

I understand that you are only allowed to do pretty much what the developers allow you to do. But allowing you more options does not automaticly make a game a sandbox. Even if it's as big as Six Flags/Great America and you can ride any rides in the order that you see fit. It's still a themepark. But going on a camping trip? Now that's a sandbox.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/11/12 2:04:34 PM#88
Unless you have hearthfire you can't build. That's a pretty darn important sandbox feature.
  Scorp2778

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/03/10
Posts: 31

10/11/12 2:32:32 PM#89
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by kishe

The appeal of Elder Scrolls games are the fact they're sandbox type rpgs. Now what are we getting? Linear Themepark wow-clone using same engine as SWTOR.

 

In Elder Scrolls games you are free to do what you want, where you want, at your own pace...I just cant see that translating to traditional themepark setting that the zenimax is aiming for.

First off have you played the game?  Second have you even researched any of the concepts that will be in the game?

 

As a fan of the upcomming title I can honestly say you have done either.

 

 

Since when did linear means freedom to go anywhere?  You do realize the selling point of TES games is the freedom, and msot of that freedom is being carried over to the MMO version.  Freedom to go anywhere, freedom to pick what weapon you want to use (Mage with a 2h sword or a Warrior with a bow *Yummy*), freedom to choose different guilds (TES versions) to swear allegiance to, and freedom to adventure how you see fit.  Nothing about TESO "on rails" or linear except for the fact you cant kill whatever NPC you want (which is an idiotic thing to do anyway).  In fact the only feature that isnt being parlayed over to the online MMO is the freedom of class and freedom of picking your friends (its a 3 faction game) but both of those are being integrated into the MMO version via freedom of which weapon you choose and freedom of joining NPC sub-factions like the Thieves Guild or Bards College.

 

And dont even start about combat, first TESO is using a hybrid hotbar/tab targetting combat system similar to GW2 but with active blocking and secondly the FPS and left click to attack/cast combat system is possibly the most boring unimaginitive combat system to ever graced an RPG.

 

 

 

In one of the links posted above by Nadia it states that factions will be limited to exploring their faction area. Maybe I understood it wrong but that would mean that 2/3 of the playable world is inaccessable. I hope they change their minds on that if it is true.

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 654

10/11/12 2:46:07 PM#90
Originally posted by Scorp2778
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by kishe

The appeal of Elder Scrolls games are the fact they're sandbox type rpgs. Now what are we getting? Linear Themepark wow-clone using same engine as SWTOR.

 

In Elder Scrolls games you are free to do what you want, where you want, at your own pace...I just cant see that translating to traditional themepark setting that the zenimax is aiming for.

First off have you played the game?  Second have you even researched any of the concepts that will be in the game?

 

As a fan of the upcomming title I can honestly say you have done either.

 

 

Since when did linear means freedom to go anywhere?  You do realize the selling point of TES games is the freedom, and msot of that freedom is being carried over to the MMO version.  Freedom to go anywhere, freedom to pick what weapon you want to use (Mage with a 2h sword or a Warrior with a bow *Yummy*), freedom to choose different guilds (TES versions) to swear allegiance to, and freedom to adventure how you see fit.  Nothing about TESO "on rails" or linear except for the fact you cant kill whatever NPC you want (which is an idiotic thing to do anyway).  In fact the only feature that isnt being parlayed over to the online MMO is the freedom of class and freedom of picking your friends (its a 3 faction game) but both of those are being integrated into the MMO version via freedom of which weapon you choose and freedom of joining NPC sub-factions like the Thieves Guild or Bards College.

 

And dont even start about combat, first TESO is using a hybrid hotbar/tab targetting combat system similar to GW2 but with active blocking and secondly the FPS and left click to attack/cast combat system is possibly the most boring unimaginitive combat system to ever graced an RPG.

 

 

 

In one of the links posted above by Nadia it states that factions will be limited to exploring their faction area. Maybe I understood it wrong but that would mean that 2/3 of the playable world in inaccessable. I hope they change their minds on that if it is true.

Truth, as a person who HATES alts, this game is going to force me to have at least 2 if I want to see everything.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16599

10/12/12 2:32:34 PM#91
Originally posted by Ramonski7
 

Ok I'll say this and I'll leave it at that until we both can continue (I have work in 20 minutes, you have your meeting). People tend to equate The Elder Scroll series to sandbox (or sandbox-like) because they can more or less pick up a cup, kill a few harmless npcs and ignore the main story. I do not.

 

And the reason I don't is because you might as well say the same thing about  Reckoning, Fable, GTA, Fallout 3 and host of other open world/free roaming SPRPGs that offer similar pseudo freedoms. Those in the camp of believing that TES is a sandbox-like single player game are going to be slightly disappointed when TESO comes out. It will have more in common with themepark mmos than it will with sandbox mmos.

 

And as far as the examples I gave that you quoted me on. I intentionally avoided hyperbolic examples of taking over a town or going to the moon because I was drawing examples from your own examples of what you said you can do in a ES game. Basically staying in the context of the game you mentioned. In TES I can kill npcs but I cannot kill ALL npcs. I can read books but I cannot write them. And I can own a house but I cannot own all of them.

 

I understand that you are only allowed to do pretty much what the developers allow you to do. But allowing you more options does not automaticly make a game a sandbox. Even if it's as big as Six Flags/Great America and you can ride any rides in the order that you see fit. It's still a themepark. But going on a camping trip? Now that's a sandbox.

I would say that Fable is not even close to an elderscrolls game or from what I read, GTA.

I would say that a sandbox role playing game allows a player to pursue his/her interests within the context of what the world offers.

Since the game must revolve around the player, the player is always the protagonist. Whether or not you are a character in a storyline or the person who decides that "x" goes "there" the player is the center of the game.

For a game like Morrowind, Oblviion and Skyrim, the player is set up to "possibly" be the protagonist in the story. Since the game is an adventure game and the developers want to have a clear story arch should the player choose to participate, they start the player off as a prisoner. This is always the case and something the developers use as their common starting point. despite what some roleplayers might have others believe, it is perfectly acceptable to establish rules and guidelines and then have the player use those rules and guidlines to build their character. Heck, a coworker who is honing his improv craft by taking classes indicated that he had several performances for his "graduation" but only one of those performances was completely dependent on what he wanted to do. The rest had various guidlines.

So, the player starts off as a prisoner and then gets out.

In morrowind you are told to visit Caius Cosades (or whatever his name is) because he was instrumental in getting you out.

In Oblvion you are asked to find the head of the blades

In Skyrim you are asked to go to Whiterun and warn the Jarl. Then...

In Morrowind you get a pop up saying the tradehouse is on the left good luck you are on your own. Same with Oblvioin (sans tradehouse) and in skyrim they make it a bit more organic where you are invited to accompany either the guard or the stormcloak rebel but they both then say "it could be good if we just went our own ways".

You then can ignore the main quest (as it has nothing to do with your character) and fish, hunt, cook what you get, mine for minerals you can sell, etc.

You are always going to be an adventurer of some sort but the sandbox part comes by how you define yourself as an adventurer. Fable and Amulur/reckoning doesn't really have these choices. Amulur is closest as I beleive one of the lead designers designers worked on morrowind.

In the end, I don't know of any rpg that allows for one to completely have an open experience. Meaning, I can't set up shop in these games but I can travel the world and do what I want in the context of an open game world.

Conversely, games like the SIMS, which as I mentioned is more like a toy, doesn't really give us a world so much as as stage to wind up our mechanisms and watch them go.

So, if Elderscrolls isn't a sandbox, by your definition, then it probably falls into a "Sandbox RPG" category as it gives us the closest thing to free world "be what adventurer you want" experience that you can get. It gives the player enough toys and sand to choose their role in the world with obvious limitations.

As far as TESO, it is not meant to be an "Elder Scrolls" experience a la the solo games but is meant  to be an mmo that is crafted around the Elderscrolls lore and stories. So sure, any person who buys the game expecting a sandbox or "sandboxy" experience will be highly dissapointed.

  hercules

Novice Member

Joined: 4/21/03
Posts: 4778

10/12/12 2:42:28 PM#92

To be fair  wiki still lists this game as using the failed hero engine.i myself lost intrest in this game when it still was apparently using the hero engine.

 

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 654

10/12/12 3:11:33 PM#93
Originally posted by hercules

To be fair  wiki still lists this game as using the failed hero engine.i myself lost intrest in this game when it still was apparently using the hero engine.

 

I can imagine that this new engine is just HeroEngine with a lot of new code, just like the "all-new" creation engine still used GameBryo as a base.

I read the "why we're not using the hero engine" article and I'm still not 100% convinced.

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 Search