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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » If you had to play one game for the next 5 years, would it be THEME PARK or SANDBOX?

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61 posts found
  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

10/11/12 12:09:18 PM#21
Originally posted by Badaboom

How much sand in the sandbox?

I would play an MMO for a long time if it had these features:

1) Darkfall feature set as a base model

-player vendors

-big world

-skill based (with skill caps)

-FFA full loot

-player made boats

-housing

-player cities, villages, hamlets

-No AH

*Things I would add:  local banking, localized resources specific to region, no world chat (only /say /w /shout with chat bubbles), player made maps and compases, roaming guards in high security zones, craftable furniture, tabards, dyes, more harvestable resources, pack mules, farming.

2) Guild Wars 2 gathering + crafting speed + discovery with a little of Vanguard's crafting depth.

All I can think of for now.

I love how people always mention this feature list without adding the ONE feature that would actual make it "work" for the majority of gamers:

-actual functioning / logical "Morality" / Bounty / Justice system.

No sandbox MMO has ever gotten it right, always easy to abuse or far too lenient / easy on the PKs - hell even EvE is trying to "fix" theirs with new expansion but I know they'll still be far, far too lenient on PK's to EVER be able to attract and retain players who don't get off on ganking randoms/noobs for no reason.

There is no honor/valor 99% of the time in FFA PvP - which makes it completely unrealistic (as 99% of people on this planet are not murderous psychpaths with no morals or concepts of justice and what is right/wrong.)

So FFA PvP = "dog eat dog" wild wild west "might as well be set in a maximum security prison" gaming and the VAST, VAST majority will NEVER go for that. Ever.

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3094

10/11/12 12:11:22 PM#22
It doesn't matter to me, as long as it's good.  I've played sandboxes that were more like litterboxes.  I've played theme parks that were more like ghetto parks.  If it's a good game and I can see myself having fun in it, then I'll pick that one.
  Badaboom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2385

10/11/12 12:31:10 PM#23
Originally posted by BadSpock
 

So FFA PvP = "dog eat dog" wild wild west "might as well be set in a maximum security prison" gaming and the VAST, VAST majority will NEVER go for that. Ever.

I completely agree with you but I wasn't aiming for the majority.  I was aiming for a game system that would please me and something that could keep me interested in the long haul.

I think Darkfall is a good base model but it is missing some crucial things, which in its current state, equates to nothing more than a large PVP arena.

  Stevon

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/03
Posts: 188

10/11/12 12:37:42 PM#24

If you are going to have a poll at least make it valid.   Theme Park or Sandbox... who cares if the game itself is good?

  Stevon

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/03
Posts: 188

10/11/12 12:40:12 PM#25
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Badaboom

How much sand in the sandbox?

I would play an MMO for a long time if it had these features:

1) Darkfall feature set as a base model

-player vendors

-big world

-skill based (with skill caps)

-FFA full loot

-player made boats

-housing

-player cities, villages, hamlets

-No AH

*Things I would add:  local banking, localized resources specific to region, no world chat (only /say /w /shout with chat bubbles), player made maps and compases, roaming guards in high security zones, craftable furniture, tabards, dyes, more harvestable resources, pack mules, farming.

2) Guild Wars 2 gathering + crafting speed + discovery with a little of Vanguard's crafting depth.

All I can think of for now.

I love how people always mention this feature list without adding the ONE feature that would actual make it "work" for the majority of gamers:

-actual functioning / logical "Morality" / Bounty / Justice system.

No sandbox MMO has ever gotten it right, always easy to abuse or far too lenient / easy on the PKs - hell even EvE is trying to "fix" theirs with new expansion but I know they'll still be far, far too lenient on PK's to EVER be able to attract and retain players who don't get off on ganking randoms/noobs for no reason.

There is no honor/valor 99% of the time in FFA PvP - which makes it completely unrealistic (as 99% of people on this planet are not murderous psychpaths with no morals or concepts of justice and what is right/wrong.)

So FFA PvP = "dog eat dog" wild wild west "might as well be set in a maximum security prison" gaming and the VAST, VAST majority will NEVER go for that. Ever.

/boggle

 

No one mentions it because despite your statement it's probably not what would make it "work" for the majority of players.  If it WAS they would mention it.

  User Deleted
10/11/12 12:45:58 PM#26
I've seeked the perfect PVE centric sandbox for way too long...Ryzom was good but it wasn't great.  I'd have to say I'd like a game that mixes both sandbox and themepark into itself without catering to the PVP crowd or the "new age" gamer crowd either.  That will never happen.....every game nowaday's is an MMO...there are no MMORPG's...just games with MMORPG elements.
  Rossboss

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/10
Posts: 241

10/11/12 12:57:07 PM#27
Playing one game for 5 years straight is a lot of time. I'd much rather take the sandbox just because it will most assuredly have more discoverable content in it than a themepark. There's really not much of a discussion here other than which one you would rather spend your time with. I like finding stuff out on my own and stumbling upon the enemy base by accident.

I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  Badaboom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2385

10/11/12 12:58:13 PM#28
Originally posted by Randayn
I've seeked the perfect PVE centric sandbox for way too long...Ryzom was good but it wasn't great.  I'd have to say I'd like a game that mixes both sandbox and themepark into itself without catering to the PVP crowd or the "new age" gamer crowd either.  That will never happen.....every game nowaday's is an MMO...there are no MMORPG's...just games with MMORPG elements.

I think PVP needs to be in the sandbox which enables the high highs and the low lows.  When you play an MMO, for me at least, it is to get an emotional response.  I think a lot of current MMO's don't offer that but instead provide you with a flatline.

The danger of being a weaker player and sneaking away with his prize and succeeding or failing is a feeling that is hard to duplicate in a PVE only setting.

The trick is how do you make the PVP present, but not prevalent?  You need to add consequences to certain actions.  Allow the actions, just make sure there are appropriate reprecussions.

 

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2767

10/11/12 12:58:45 PM#29
The results of this poll show exactly why this sites posters are completely out of whack with who actually play and subscribe to MMOs.
  User Deleted
10/11/12 1:02:53 PM#30
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by Randayn
I've seeked the perfect PVE centric sandbox for way too long...Ryzom was good but it wasn't great.  I'd have to say I'd like a game that mixes both sandbox and themepark into itself without catering to the PVP crowd or the "new age" gamer crowd either.  That will never happen.....every game nowaday's is an MMO...there are no MMORPG's...just games with MMORPG elements.

I think PVP needs to be in the sandbox which enables the high highs and the low lows.  When you play an MMO, for me at least, it is to get an emotional response.  I think a lot of current MMO's don't offer that but instead provide you with a flatline.

The danger of being a weaker player and sneaking away with his prize and succeeding or failing is a feeling that is hard to duplicate in a PVE only setting.

The trick is how do you make the PVP present, but not prevalent?  You need to add consequences to certain actions.  Allow the actions, just make sure there are appropriate reprecussions.

 

I agree with you....I think I stated it incorrectly...when I said cater, I meant Darkfall type catering...where PVP is the main focus.  I like the rules that "The Repoplulation" plans to set.  As long as the "best" gear that can only be found in the PVP zones is not necessary to do the dungeons and raids and stuff.

  f0dell54

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 311

Sanity....
It's for the weak.

10/11/12 1:10:32 PM#31
Sandbox as I played UO from 1997-2005 and still have an active account. I just think you get more value out of a sandbox over time. But I also played UO in it's glory days and that is something that no other mmo will ever experience. So, I guess it is hard to say.
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18996

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/11/12 1:15:14 PM#32
Heading towards almost 4 years played on EVE, longest out of any other title (DAOC was the longest theme parkish  game at 2.75 yrs) so had to vote for sandbox titles

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2393

World > Quest Progression

10/11/12 1:24:39 PM#33
Originally posted by ste2000
Originally posted by mmoDAD

I voted Sandbox, too.

I can't imagine blasting through the Theme Park to max level in a matter of weeks and having to spend the next 4 years and 11 months playing the same 4-5 Battlegrounds, Arenas, Warzones, or whatever they want to call 'em.

Sandbox has fantastic sustain. It's a shame that AAA funding has never really hit the Sandbox genre as of yet. Here's hoping for ArcheAge and EverQuest Next (Smed did state that they are going virtual world with this one).

I wish

Source please?

 

0:50 seconds in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cp3j-7yz3I

You can look at PS2 footage to get an idea of what the day/night, light projection and fog should be like.

 

http://themittani.com/features/mittani-interviews-soe-ceo-john-smedley

While the interview is not about EQN specifically Smed mentions SoE's games as a whole in which we all know EQ is the flagship. Here is what got me excited:

 

You’ve mentioned a desire for more sandbox MMOs in your Reddit AMA, and sandboxes are obviously a major draw for Eve players. Do you have plans for adding sandbox elements to PS2, and if so, would you like to discuss them? If there really is an untapped market for sandbox MMOs, why haven’t we seen more of them, besides Eve and SWG?

Sandbox elements - SOE is redefining itself as a creator of emergent gameplay experiences. That's our future. You can call it sandbox but it's so much more than that. A good example is Player owned bases in Planetside 2. That's coming. We're going to make huge continents that are empty and have vast resources on them and players can fight it out and put down their own bases there and other players can come and obliterate them. Sound familiar Eve Players? Actually we had something like this in Star Wars Galaxies too. THAT is content. At some point as an industry we need to realize that we have already lost the race to outpace players in making content. I personally thought SWTOR was a great game. I loved Diablo III. The problem is you get to the endgame and as game makers it's not just expensive. it's impossible to stay ahead of the curve.

Think about this statement - If WoW had come out yesterday.. at what point would people be "done" with the content. We need to focus on game systems that are perpetual and give players a lot more control over what they can do rather than JUST putting yet another dragon in front of them with scripted content. We need to be doing both in order to be successful. And that's our plan.

 

If you combine this with other tech like SoEMote it has the potential to be a great gameworld.  Some people scoffed at SoEMote because it seemed like a waste of time but it can be used for a lot of things and Dave elluded to "spellweaving" with it.  One thing I noticed last night is about every NPC of Qeynos in EQ2 "talks" to you with any audible speech you hear from them.  It occured to me then that SoE is probably using SoEMote to quickly record the mouth animations along with voice overs.  I also noticed there is now an area chat feature for those on your friends list so you can talk to them even if you aren't in a group.  I imagine this can be expanded to "region chat" but for obvious reasons they may bring that in later.  Being a walking point of audio and visual communication in a virtual world is nothing to sniff at.

 

Edit: Voted Sandbox

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4745

10/11/12 1:28:03 PM#34

I'd play neither.

This whole binary mentallity of games having to be 1 or the other is part of the problem. Themeparks have been getting a lot of flack, because they are the current majority, but Sandboxes also have their share of problems. The better games aren't built with the idea of 'we have to be a themepark or a sandbox', they are simply built with a focus on solid & deep mechanics.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/11/12 1:35:45 PM#35
The longest I've played a game was 4 years with daoc. So you would think themepark.

But I don't like most modern themeparks as gw2 apart they tend to be glorified lobby games once you level.

So I will go sandbox. I would love a game like eve, but with daoc / planetside siege battles where you actual control your char, preferably in an original not done before setting like steampunk or something.
  GrumpyMel2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1813

10/11/12 1:36:53 PM#36

My Personal List...

- Sandbox

- Evolving/Dynamic World

- In addition to Player Emergent sruff, LOTS of GM run storylines, live events, mini-story arcs

- PvE & PvP & PvPvE

- Faction vs Faction vs Faction based PvP

- Hot and Cold Zones for PvP

- Empire Building/Territorial Control in Hot Zones.

- Focused on Player Interdependance/Group Play

- In Depth Tactical Combat

- Exploration

- Full Player Driven Economy

- Non Combat Professions such as Crafter, Merchant and Healer being as important and viable as Combat Proffesions.

- Player sub-factions, no direct intra faction combat, but competition and rivalry.

- Non Combat threats/challenges such as traps, locked doors, secret doors, storms, floods, blizzards, etc.

- No F2P, No Cash Shop but a $50 per month base subscription price to pay for it all and keep out the riff-raff.

 

Well, a guy can dream anyway.

  loulaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 810

10/12/12 7:55:02 AM#37

well i didnt vote cause i need more options, anyway i dont care if it will be sandbox or themepark, i want to be live with expansions and of course well designed.

 

atm even the "perfect" sandmox (i talk about EVE) has themepark elements (faction wars), and the "best" themepark (GW2) has sandbox elements (WvWvW )

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1866

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

10/12/12 7:59:22 AM#38

personaly i have never been a one game kind of guy :)

i prefer polygamie :P

 

 

you'd need a hell of a game to keep me playing it for years, and nothing else meanwhile.

 

themeparks are nice, wow is still the best mmo at the market atm. guess there is no arguing about that (just alot of trolling)

sandboxes. cool thing too. give you alot of freedom obviously, but seriously, name one you played longer than a year, beside minecraft (and that's usually not played all the time either, just again and again).

 

so, as long no one gives me enough money and the people to make my own game, i guess i'll stick to the "play the game that's most fun atm"

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Murdus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 704

we own the sky

10/12/12 8:16:25 AM#39
Sandbox, hands down. Virtual world over spoonfed experience all day everyday.
  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1460

10/12/12 8:21:46 AM#40
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Badaboom

How much sand in the sandbox?

I would play an MMO for a long time if it had these features:

1) Darkfall feature set as a base model

-player vendors

-big world

-skill based (with skill caps)

-FFA full loot

-player made boats

-housing

-player cities, villages, hamlets

-No AH

*Things I would add:  local banking, localized resources specific to region, no world chat (only /say /w /shout with chat bubbles), player made maps and compases, roaming guards in high security zones, craftable furniture, tabards, dyes, more harvestable resources, pack mules, farming.

2) Guild Wars 2 gathering + crafting speed + discovery with a little of Vanguard's crafting depth.

All I can think of for now.

I love how people always mention this feature list without adding the ONE feature that would actual make it "work" for the majority of gamers:

-actual functioning / logical "Morality" / Bounty / Justice system.

No sandbox MMO has ever gotten it right, always easy to abuse or far too lenient / easy on the PKs - hell even EvE is trying to "fix" theirs with new expansion but I know they'll still be far, far too lenient on PK's to EVER be able to attract and retain players who don't get off on ganking randoms/noobs for no reason.

There is no honor/valor 99% of the time in FFA PvP - which makes it completely unrealistic (as 99% of people on this planet are not murderous psychpaths with no morals or concepts of justice and what is right/wrong.)

So FFA PvP = "dog eat dog" wild wild west "might as well be set in a maximum security prison" gaming and the VAST, VAST majority will NEVER go for that. Ever.

First of all i would sign the list above.

And to your comment about it.. i guess you are quite right. But it is a tough one, isnt it?

Truth is(at least in my mind) that you cant have a good economy and good player interaction without some kind of FFA PvP with some kind of loot(EvE will count here for me.. at it isnt completely ffa pvp nor full loot).

But as you said you have to bring in some checks, either that players can handle other players better(pks) or mechanics which held them to some degree in check. But as you said, no system was really perfect, it was either to tight and you lost a lot of freedom, and other advantages or it was to lose and you got rampart pking, which was more often than not reduced to just senseless pking and not much else going on.

I personally think of a setup similar to EvE, but with more variable zone setups, so that some zones could be changeing in secure levels(100%, 50% and 0% secure room with the safety and penalities) and the world could become more dynamic.

 

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