Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Kyleran

 and in almsot no case were other folks severely harmed by our actions.

 

I still really do not understand the mentality behind 'needing' extra accounts to do these things and although you may not think it doesn't harm others it does. For every extra account/character used there is a lack of requirement for another person/character to fulfil the role. Every extra account/character gathering/training/making items is reducing the necessity for anotehr player thus reducing their worth.

But which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Do people create accounts to buff themselves, or craft their own gear because their selfish, or perhaps there aren't people willing/able to fulfill that role or its inefficient?

Some examples you gave, such as the guy multiboxing 9 accounts....at no point is the guys expecting or desireing any social interaction. And if there is any interaction then they have so loaded the dice in terms of balance that others probably didn't want to get involved.

Heh....actually the guy multiboxing 9 accounts (actually was 8 accounts, max group size in that game) did it so he could totally roll people. He was playing a turret pet class and could drop roughly 30+ turrent in one cast, absolutely anihalating his opponents.  The Devs at Mythic actually did step and put a stop to his activities.

It just seems so totally counter-productive to the point of playing a game (i.e. the challenge of winning) that it is basically the same as someone buying a rubics qube and peeling the stickers off then claiming to have done it!

Hmm, no the point to playing games for some people is the winning itself, the challenge isn't really that important.  To what degree they'll go to win ranges widely, with some folks using mods, macros, special mice/keyboards or superfast video cards/computer hardware all the way up to using hacks and cheats, all to ensure they win.

It is also so obviously anti-social, and not just the usual geeky anti-social but the really borderline kind that I honestly worry about some people that play games. For these people is doesn't seem to be a game. Despite what you say you personally claim, some of the examples you gave of individuals would make me really doubt their sanity.

Funny thing about that, the guy Rock I mentioned, who soloed all those groups of characters, he was one of the most social guys on the server.  Always chatting it up in world/zone chat, very active in PVP, had himself some sort of godly Infiltrator that was very high in Realm ranks. (not sure when he actually logged of to go to work actually)  But he certainly wasn't a social misfit, at least in the virtual world.

 I guess I just don't get the whole 'anything to win' mentality as opposed to "success is an achievement not a neccessity" when playing a game.

Never play EVE, it really is all about anything to win, the stakes are too high not to. 

I def see a reason for multiple accounts.  I don't see how others DO NOT see a reason for them.  Guess it is the way a game is set up.  

I liked multiples on Perfect World International because, with graphics on low, you can duel client on your PC.  I would put 2 chars on my PC and 2 on my roommates then play all of them at once.  I could form a party with myself  and not have to go thru the garbage of waiting for others to show up (no dungeon finder). listening to them fite, and I can keep all the booty.  I don't see it as illegal or cheating because it was hard to play 4 chars at the same time, esp since my roomy's PC is on the other side of our apt.  And I could only do this when he was at work.  That was fun for a bit until his PC crashed and I had to replace it (it was very old plus I don't fully trust those Microsoft updates because they're what crashes every PC I've owned).

Then I was willing to buy a game card for both accounts - $10 ea which was $20 a mo.  I have restrictions on myself that I am only allowed to buy one game card a month.  

I replaced my roomy's PC but I have not had an urge to go back to PWI so that money was wasted.  Stupid ennui.

Otherwise I'm playing f2p and my mule accounts I don't put money on.

I have two accounts in WoW (and had them for years) simply because I like dual logging sometimes... but I don't do it to become overpowered in PvP or stuff like that, I actually never dual logged for PvP. I liked to be able to support my weaker characters with my main/stronger ones. Want to quick run some lower level dungeon but don't have the time to find a group? Just dual log and do it. Need a ride to a hard to reach location? Log my main with his two place rocket, and take the alt as passenger. I also did it before the enchanting profession was able to create scrolls, so I could self-enchant my main's gear.

There are many reason to want to have two accounts in a MMORPG.

PS: I actually own 3 wow accounts right now... but 1 is a "free to play" one limited to level 20 with a couple of level 20 characters on it, so I can still log in and say hello to friends without having to reactivate my main accounts.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Why?

 

If you like to be a dick to others, I can see why some want a 2nd account but I cannot see any reason for more then 1 account personally.

 

The other option are people that simply cannot play fair and so need extra accounts to gather more resources, own more land or whatever simply because they cannot achieve the same as others without effectivly cheating.

I think people that have more then 1 account for themselves and don't have them to allow them to play like dicks are failing to see the point of playing games and treat it more like a job or life replacement.

Even if I was stupidly rich I would still only have 1 account per game, just have lots of games to play. I simply don't get why it is needed for anything but player issues.

I had 4 accounts in SWG, remember you could only have one character per server.

I was mainly a crafter, had allot of player run shops, we had a town, a small guild, wich became pretty close friends (unfortunaly lost touch with most of them), we had a website/forum http://home.planet.nl/~walke050/main.html (still partially working it seems)

Due to me being a crafter my name got slightly know, so many custom orders from players I just couldn´t keep up with just having one account, and since I loved kinda all crafting professions I just knew more characters would expand my gameplay and serve/help/assist allot more people who needed my crafts. While I mastered all professions except Jedi I had the most fun being a Crafter, later to become Trader

You see back then you actually needed other professions besides players into combat.  There was more to it then needing a individual or random groups to complete a mission/quest.

There was decay, sure you could repair it, but with every repair decay set in, eventually making your item obsolete (eventually we got full repair kits that could repair anything completely broken, and ended up with a complete wipe of the decay feature because there where to many complaints from mostly ex-players and to some extend base players.

Will admit at the time of playing SWG I was a freelance-sound engineer that gave me more time then I currently had for several years. Though my life was completely different in 2007 I still returned, started with new characters, and after 4 monts or so decied to open up my old accounts, to see if there still might be things worth salvaging. and while before I opened up my old accounts I already was making good progress with my new trader characters in the way of making good business. And due to knewing that my old characters really had tons of resources I felt the game was fun enough to reopen them to gather those things still usefull.

I actually left the game in 2007 which I played for about 8 months again due to to much custom orders.  Yes I do bring a large part of my rl into my game with the I want to be the best at what I do/create but in a meaningfull way towards others-community.

Okay personaly I will not multibox in a themepark game, but I am positief many do, like me I am sure most don´t do it to be a d### towards others, but like in rl there are some bad apple´s out there. Just don´t let them cloud your judgement on a bigger scale.

EVE = 3 accounts, 1 was main char, second for spy/intel so I could keep eyes on popular gate camp routes, and 3rd for transport

WoW = 2 accounts, 1 for me 1 for family

FFXI = 2 accounts, 1 for me 1 for girlfriend

The only game where i felt it was absolutely necessary to have multiple accounts was EVE Online.     

That said, I'm no longer subscribed to EVE, and I think it's terrible that the game is so ridiculously hard to enjoy without multiple accounts.  

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Why?

 

If you like to be a dick to others, I can see why some want a 2nd account but I cannot see any reason for more then 1 account personally.

 

The other option are people that simply cannot play fair and so need extra accounts to gather more resources, own more land or whatever simply because they cannot achieve the same as others without effectivly cheating.

I think people that have more then 1 account for themselves and don't have them to allow them to play like dicks are failing to see the point of playing games and treat it more like a job or life replacement.

Even if I was stupidly rich I would still only have 1 account per game, just have lots of games to play. I simply don't get why it is needed for anything but player issues.

To explain further as to why a few of us SWG guys had 10+ accounts.

SWG up until the 2005 you could only have 1 character per account,  2 if you had a jedi,  this changed in 2005 to 3 characters if you had already unlocked jedi or changed to 2 if you did not.

Rescources in SWG where not your standard Iron, Steel etc nodes that you just harvest as you do in other games.

In SWG rescources where underground and you had to place a mining installation on them the thing is these rescources always changed a practice we called "shifting"

A shift could last anything from just a couple of days to a month or 2.

Each rescource had a number variations of it eg Steel had 10+ types and up to 6 different stats from 1-1000

A particular crafting recipe would not only require a certain type of steel but also require 4 of 6 stats to be 975/1000 for a perfect craft the times that a particular rescource came into shift over 9 years with these 4 stats in a 950+ range could be counted on my hands so on those rare occasions that something great came into shift is when we would sub the 10+ accounts specifically for mining this particular rescource. 

I actually remember one particular Aluminium that never once came into shift on Chimaera server with acceptable stats in 9 years it wasnt until server transfers and bringing some from other servers that we managed perfect crafts of certain weapons.

This helped our server and our crafters by  ensuring they had a long lasting supply of these great rescources as we never knew IF never mind when it might come back in shift and it of course made us a tidy credit profit over the years as we where the only source of it.

If we didn't have it though our server would have been running round in underpar gear.

Originally posted by Vannor
Only game I had more than one account for is Asheron's Call. The second account was purely for muling.

AWWW  i miss that.   No one says "muling" or "mule" anymore...

I haven't heard that since my days in FFXI.

kudos.

GW1 - 2 accounts (1 for me, 1 for wife and the kids shared both)

LotRO - 2 accounts (1 for me, 1 for wife. kids didn't play) - but I only ever paid for the ROI expansion for 1 account

GW2 - 2 accounts so far.  I'm considering buying a third specifically for the kids because they are still very low level on my wife's account and she is really into the game.  So much so that she's already talking about making alts and hates sharing the bank space.

Of course, I've never paid for a subscription and never will, so I probably don't really count here.  :)

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Maelwydd

I guess I just don't get the whole 'anything to win' mentality as opposed to "success is an achievement not a neccessity" when playing a game.

It's not about winning in all cases - it's mostly just about having fun. For several games I bought two boxes - one to use and the other to get signed by the devs. A room full of gaming swag and signed software boxes probably seems really odd to you, but I'm a big fan of virtual worlds and online gaming so the money and time I invest has both value and reward for me.

In UO, I had multiple accounts. One was for Seer/IGM (roleplay and events) characters, another for regular characters and the third was my reckless abandon PVP/PK account. It helped me keep my assets and characters separate from each other and it also gave me more character slots for the servers I played on.

 

If you've never had a hobby or been an enthusiast of anything then I can see why this might be foreign to you. However, if you have had something you were rather passionate about (hobby, collection, show, sports team or sport in general), then think of the things you've bought or time you've invested (possibly, even laces you've gone) as part of that passion.

 

 

Gaming is my hobby. Been doing it for 30+ years. I do have pristine boxed software. All that I totally get.

What I don't get is the need to have multiple accounts to play a game. To the core of my being this makes me itch. It just feels like cheating so much. That is just be I guess. I mean, I feel bad about having lots of alts to craft stuff. I don't actually do it to make a killing on the market but to see all the crafts, I love completing all aspects of a game. But at no point have I ever felt the need to buy 2 accounts to play a game. I play a character, if I can't do something I either don't do it or get help from others. It simply does not enter my mind that I sould ignore all the other players and do it myself.

As I said erlier, even if I had money to burn (and when I was contracting a few years back I did) it wouldn't cross my mind to buy another account to play 2 characters at the same time. Buy more slots for alts, sure. But play 2 characters at the same time? Baffles me.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the RPG aspect of these games? I come from a tabletop background, enjoy roleplaying etc...To me the closest you get to multiboxing is playing a GM. But even then, you are not doing it to gain an unfair advantage over others, you are doing it simply to tell a story. Multiboxing in an RPG is just....wrong....best I can put it really. It just totally misses the point of playing the game.

Bottom line, I have been called an addict to gaming, I am actually studying game design to combine my obsessive hobby with a job.....but I still don't get people that feel the need to multibox...guess I will never get the mentality...but when I am selling games I hope you all completely lose it and buy hundreds of accounts each. I know who wins in that situation :)

Just EvE.

Never saw a real reason to have multiple accounts in other games.

Originally posted by thamighty213

...If we didn't have it though our server would have been running round in underpar gear.

Well my point would be....that is the game. You circumvented the game mechanics to do what you did. 1 character per player was done for a reason. By creating more characters you perveted the normal running of that mechanic. You have essentially made the game more and more biased through greed. Instead of just playing the game, having fun when you find a rare and just playing, you turn the game into a set of statistics where the point of playing is lost in the midst of trying to win, even if you use tactics I consider cheating.

Imagine a 100m sprinting race with 8 runners.

You bet on 1 of the runners and get good odds.

You then bet on a 2nd runner...but you get the same odds.

You eventually bet on all 8 runners...and the odds haven't changed.

You might will the bet and some money but at no point can you say you are a good gambler or lucky when you bet. Your focus is on the money, not the skill it might take to choose wisely. Plus, because of how you are betting, you are not getting odds calculated to balance the risk.

...

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Maelwydd

I guess I just don't get the whole 'anything to win' mentality as opposed to "success is an achievement not a neccessity" when playing a game.

It's not about winning in all cases - it's mostly just about having fun. For several games I bought two boxes - one to use and the other to get signed by the devs. A room full of gaming swag and signed software boxes probably seems really odd to you, but I'm a big fan of virtual worlds and online gaming so the money and time I invest has both value and reward for me.

In UO, I had multiple accounts. One was for Seer/IGM (roleplay and events) characters, another for regular characters and the third was my reckless abandon PVP/PK account. It helped me keep my assets and characters separate from each other and it also gave me more character slots for the servers I played on.

 

If you've never had a hobby or been an enthusiast of anything then I can see why this might be foreign to you. However, if you have had something you were rather passionate about (hobby, collection, show, sports team or sport in general), then think of the things you've bought or time you've invested (possibly, even laces you've gone) as part of that passion.

Gaming is my hobby. Been doing it for 30+ years. I do have pristine boxed software. All that I totally get.

What I don't get is the need to have multiple accounts to play a game.

...I am actually studying game design to combine my obsessive hobby with a job.....but I still don't get people that feel the need to multibox...guess I will never get the mentality.

You don't get it because you probably still see it as necessity, not desire. No one needs a second account. Some want a second account to achieve their goals and interests - competitive, alt-related, RP, espionage, or just because they enjoy their game THAT much.

If you really plan to be a game designer, this might be something you're going to want to get a decent handle on. ;)

2 on SWG

3 on EvE at one point

Never had a reason for more than one in any other game.

I had 5 SWG accounts and 11 characters on the Tarq server. I had three for Diablo 1 & 2, but those weren't sub. I didn't play UO or DAoC or any game around that time very long so only had single accounts. From ‘03 - ‘06 I had 11 subscriptions, 5 were for SWG. The others allowed you to have multiple characters per server, so there was no need for more accounts.

Having multiple accounts is not always about winning at all costs. In my case it was about alts in a single character game. the majority of my alts where crafters entertainers and healers. After the NGE the number of players fell, and these classes become a commodity.

True there are players who attempt to increase their DPS by multi boxing. For whatever reason they can’t or won't reply on other players for this kind of help.
 

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Maelwydd

I guess I just don't get the whole 'anything to win' mentality as opposed to "success is an achievement not a neccessity" when playing a game.

It's not about winning in all cases - it's mostly just about having fun. For several games I bought two boxes - one to use and the other to get signed by the devs. A room full of gaming swag and signed software boxes probably seems really odd to you, but I'm a big fan of virtual worlds and online gaming so the money and time I invest has both value and reward for me.

In UO, I had multiple accounts. One was for Seer/IGM (roleplay and events) characters, another for regular characters and the third was my reckless abandon PVP/PK account. It helped me keep my assets and characters separate from each other and it also gave me more character slots for the servers I played on.

 

If you've never had a hobby or been an enthusiast of anything then I can see why this might be foreign to you. However, if you have had something you were rather passionate about (hobby, collection, show, sports team or sport in general), then think of the things you've bought or time you've invested (possibly, even laces you've gone) as part of that passion.

Gaming is my hobby. Been doing it for 30+ years. I do have pristine boxed software. All that I totally get.

What I don't get is the need to have multiple accounts to play a game.

...I am actually studying game design to combine my obsessive hobby with a job.....but I still don't get people that feel the need to multibox...guess I will never get the mentality.

You don't get it because you probably still see it as necessity, not desire. No one needs a second account. Some want a second account to achieve their goals and interests - competitive, alt-related, RP, espionage, or just because they enjoy their game THAT much.

If you really plan to be a game designer, this might be something you're going to want to get a decent handle on. ;)

 

Agreed, the folks at CCP know exactly what they are doing, and encourage players having more than one account, it's how they've managed to thrive over all these years.  The economics of such design is smart business, and you can learn much from it.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by thamighty213

...If we didn't have it though our server would have been running round in underpar gear.

Well my point would be....that is the game. You circumvented the game mechanics to do what you did. 1 character per player was done for a reason. By creating more characters you perveted the normal running of that mechanic. You have essentially made the game more and more biased through greed. Instead of just playing the game, having fun when you find a rare and just playing, you turn the game into a set of statistics where the point of playing is lost in the midst of trying to win, even if you use tactics I consider cheating.

 

Imagine a 100m sprinting race with 8 runners.

You bet on 1 of the runners and get good odds.

You then bet on a 2nd runner...but you get the same odds.

You eventually bet on all 8 runners...and the odds haven't changed.

You might will the bet and some money but at no point can you say you are a good gambler or lucky when you bet. Your focus is on the money, not the skill it might take to choose wisely. Plus, because of how you are betting, you are not getting odds calculated to balance the risk.

...

I can understand your point of view, but a game is not perfect, and without multiple accounts, a lot of people would not have played as much as they did.

The more accounts you have the more time consuming it becomes to deal with them all, and with SWG resources shifting you can not just keep dumping loads of harvestors down all the time and get the best resources of everything. Keeping up with all the resources and the shifts would drove you insane, so  it still meant buying stuff and resources from other players who crafted better items.

You still have to rely on others to get the resources of other stuff, and in the past  which was better.  You can go for years not getting the best resource, but people in the past got the best and you still have to buy from them if you want the best, so multiple accounts made no difference, except make sure the server had plenty of the best resources, after they have shifted.

If it is impossible to get the best any more, then that just makes people quit. Multiple accounts became part of the mechanics, but I guess if multiple accounts were not allowed, the game would have probably been dumbed down, and they could have made any old iron do, and be all the same quality

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Originally posted by Kyleran
Just wondering how many accounts other people have paid for in their gaming careers and see if there are any of the hardcore folks on these forums, you know, who have paid for like 12 accounts to a single game (or perhaps multiple games at the same time)

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