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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » The Bottom line : Too Auto-Dynamic

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27 posts found
  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2473

 
OP  10/10/12 4:18:43 AM#1

Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community.  This is ANet's formula, they did not screw up, they made it that way on purpose......It's just made too Auto-Dynamic for my liking !

Would I ever buy an expansion ?......Probabbly not, because it will be the same formula.

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3297

10/10/12 5:08:33 AM#2
Originally posted by delete5230

Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community.  This is ANet's formula, they did not screw up, they made it that way on purpose......It's just made too Auto-Dynamic for my liking !

Would I ever buy an expansion ?......Probabbly not, because it will be the same formula.

PvP and more complicated dungeons is where group play comes in. I hope to see more maps like Orr but with more complicated questing, like siege style mechanics against mobs (setting up trebs at certain location, mounting assaults at certain times etc). 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  InFlamestwo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/11
Posts: 677

10/10/12 5:15:15 AM#3

You can group up with people if you want to. Have you tried?

The only thing you don't need to group up is in Open World. how often do you group up with people while leveling in WoW, Aion etc? only when you need the same boss kill perhaps.

  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2400

10/10/12 5:30:11 AM#4
Originally posted by delete5230

Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community. 

This isn't addressed to you as such, but to all the people who think as you do...

Why do so many players seem to assume that the formation of a "community" is the developer's responsibility?  Are they all so used to sitting alone in attics, basements and bedrooms that they need some sort of in-game incentive before they will start socialising with other players?  I see post after post, in a variety of threads, where people say things that amount to "nobody talks" and, ironically, they don't seem to see that THEY fit in that exact, same category. 

Grouping is not the same as Community.  Don't expect the "community" to come to you, fully-formed and with welcoming arms - make an effort.  Stop sitting there passively and moaning that no-one talks/socialises and DO SOMETHING about it if it means so much to you.

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

10/10/12 5:32:52 AM#5
To me the way Anet did it is more community building than most other MMOs. You can't build a community when the rest of the players are rivals instead of allies. Building a community is more than just grouping up. It's helping others even if only for a short while. 
  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2605

10/10/12 5:45:43 AM#6
Originally posted by Dibdabs
Originally posted by delete5230

Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community. 

This isn't addressed to you as such, but to all the people who think as you do...

Why do so many players seem to assume that the formation of a "community" is the developer's responsibility?  Are they all so used to sitting alone in attics, basements and bedrooms that they need some sort of in-game incentive before they will start socialising with other players?  I see post after post, in a variety of threads, where people say things that amount to "nobody talks" and, ironically, they don't seem to see that THEY fit in that exact, same category. 

Grouping is not the same as Community.  Don't expect the "community" to come to you, fully-formed and with welcoming arms - make an effort.  Stop sitting there passively and moaning that no-one talks/socialises and DO SOMETHING about it if it means so much to you.

He has already posted several times either in his own threads or other threads complaining about the lack of community. he just wanted to make a new thread yet again to complain some more that people dont want to be friends and sit around yapping for half the day. Best part is him and many others blame any lack of people talking on the wrong things. The main reson people arent talking constantly is because of the low amount of downtime, NOT because of this feature or that feature.

In GW2 youre running around killing stuff, exploring, PvPing etc the majority of the time. Mobs respawn quickly and your ekept active doing DEs. Theres not much time to just stand around and chat unless you intentionally stop playing for the purpose of chatting. In the older games that people put on a pedestal for their "community" people were sitting around talking constantly because of doing nothing. Just sitting around camping spawns, just waiting. You entertained yourself by chatting with others rather than actually being engaged with the game itself.

I just find it funny that people consider this such a bad thing. Did you buy a game or a chat room? Id rather be kept busy and entertained by the game itself than being so bored and having so many lulls in the gameplay that i spend the majority of my time using it as a chat room with a fancy GUI.

  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2400

10/10/12 5:54:50 AM#7
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by Dibdabs
Originally posted by delete5230

Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community. 

This isn't addressed to you as such, but to all the people who think as you do...

Why do so many players seem to assume that the formation of a "community" is the developer's responsibility?  Are they all so used to sitting alone in attics, basements and bedrooms that they need some sort of in-game incentive before they will start socialising with other players?  I see post after post, in a variety of threads, where people say things that amount to "nobody talks" and, ironically, they don't seem to see that THEY fit in that exact, same category. 

Grouping is not the same as Community.  Don't expect the "community" to come to you, fully-formed and with welcoming arms - make an effort.  Stop sitting there passively and moaning that no-one talks/socialises and DO SOMETHING about it if it means so much to you.

He has already posted several times either in his own threads or other threads complaining about the lack of community. he just wanted to make a new thread yet again to complain some more that people dont want to be friends and sit around yapping for half the day. Best part is him and many others blame any lack of people talking on the wrong things. The main reson people arent talking constantly is because of the low amount of downtime, NOT because of this feature or that feature.

In GW2 youre running around killing stuff, exploring, PvPing etc the majority of the time. Mobs respawn quickly and your ekept active doing DEs. Theres not much time to just stand around and chat unless you intentionally stop playing for the purpose of chatting. In the older games that people put on a pedestal for their "community" people were sitting around talking constantly because of doing nothing. Just sitting around camping spawns, just waiting. You entertained yourself by chatting with others rather than actually being engaged with the game itself.

I just find it funny that people consider this such a bad thing. Did you buy a game or a chat room? Id rather be kept busy and entertained by the game itself than being so bored and having so many lulls in the gameplay that i spend the majority of my time using it as a chat room with a fancy GUI.

Oh, he's one of THOSE, is he... he'd rather sit back and complain than do something positive about it  :D  That explains a lot.

You make a good point when you say this game has a minimal amount of downtime.  I, too, am always doing something, to the point where I forget to look at the chat box for 10 to 15 minutes at a time.  I would think I'm not the only one to do this, not by a long shot.

  jondifool

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 1122

10/10/12 6:27:50 AM#8
Originally posted by InFlamestwo

You can group up with people if you want to. Have you tried?

The only thing you don't need to group up is in Open World. how often do you group up with people while leveling in WoW, Aion etc? only when you need the same boss kill perhaps.

Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist. And as such the game simply lacks some of the social fields you normaly find.

This is a loss or a win depending on who you are, but there is no reason in denying it, just because you are not feeling the impact.

It is a big issue for alot of player. And an area that ArenaNets throughfull and very efficient internal testing didn't come up with a slolution to.

It is the games weakest point atm IMHO. And that oppinion is shared by alot of players(look at this sites review and score giving atm . and you see its lovest score there) 

 

 

read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2400

10/10/12 9:47:08 AM#9
Originally posted by jondifool

Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist.  

Ok, I'll bite... what "normal social parts of MMO" do you refer to?  I'm genuinely interested.

  Rhianni32

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/10
Posts: 223

10/10/12 11:31:47 AM#10
Originally posted by InFlamestwo

You can group up with people if you want to. Have you tried?

The only thing you don't need to group up is in Open World. how often do you group up with people while leveling in WoW, Aion etc? only when you need the same boss kill perhaps.

Great point and something to keep in mind. Its not like you group up a lot in other MMOs while leveling up. Raids, pvp/battlegrounds/warfronts, and raids? Definitely and that happens here in GW2.

Its not like there was lots of "LFG for lvl 5 quest mob" going on in other mmos.

  Rhianni32

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/10
Posts: 223

10/10/12 11:33:20 AM#11
Originally posted by Dibdabs
Originally posted by jondifool

Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist.  

Ok, I'll bite... what "normal social parts of MMO" do you refer to?  I'm genuinely interested.

Yeah I am curious too.

Are lots of players missing out on the chuck norris jokes?

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4581

10/10/12 11:40:04 AM#12
Originally posted by delete5230

Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community.  This is ANet's formula, they did not screw up, they made it that way on purpose......It's just made too Auto-Dynamic for my liking !

Would I ever buy an expansion ?......Probabbly not, because it will be the same formula.

Fair enough.

You may want to take a second look at the game, though. While I can see where your coming from in regards to dynamic events, the game is far from having 'no community'. There is a pretty big focus on cooperative group play, and this especially starts to come into play once you do explorable dungeons, sPvP (especially tournaments), or WvW.

Often times when I see people complaining about the lack of community in this game, it's because they expect the game to force players to interact with them. And that would actually be a bad thing. Instead, GW2 creates an environment where communication isn't forced, but it's highly beneficial.

Even today I still see people using global chats frequently. Calling out events for others to come help out with, trying to form dungeon groups, sharing information, orchestrating strategy in WvW. Couple that with all the fans that are creating content for the game & publishing videos, blogs, guides, etc. and I don't see how you can't call that a community. Furthermore I might even go as far as to question which ones you found were better? Not too long ago in the game, a player did a social experiment trading to 100 strangers via the mailing system ingame. He'd send them the money and see how many players sent the promised item back. Nearly every single person did. I can't think of any other MMO communities that I could say the same for.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3109

10/10/12 12:30:01 PM#13
Here is a slightly different take on it, for people who play solo, auto grouping gives them an extra option while out in the world. In other games they would just solo, now they solo and can temporarilly group up. For those in guilds well you have grouping anyway, but people could auto group with you out there anyway. It's all good- auto grouping replaces nothing, it just adds an addittional flavour.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  Reizla

Elite Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2981

MMORPGs are no longer about the mass multi-user anymore *sadly*

10/10/12 12:35:56 PM#14
Originally posted by InFlamestwo

You can group up with people if you want to. Have you tried?

The only thing you don't need to group up is in Open World. how often do you group up with people while leveling in WoW, Aion etc? only when you need the same boss kill perhaps.

Yes, I did try to group up in GW2, but without luck. Did only one dungeon (AC SM), had some WvW with my old guild in party (only 4 hours or so total), and the rest of my 150+ hours of GW2 felt like a single-player game. No thank you! Even GW(1) which was not sold as MMORPG feels more like one than GW2 does.

On the 2nd question. WoW is much the same like GW2. No parties unless you get into a dungeon *sadly*. Aion with it's 'forced party areas' has more chance for party play, even if you don't have the same quests to run. Playing TERA right now, and in the 20 hours I've played since last week when I started, I've had 2 hours of party already (lvl 23 now).

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  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2068

First came pride, then envy.

10/10/12 12:36:36 PM#15

MMOs used to have group content in the open world, but players complained that it was hard to find groups.

  • EQ2 had heroic group quests
  • Lotro had group quests
  • WoW had elite group quests
  • etc.
They've all been nerfed, because people complained that it took long to find groups, and that they couldn't solo and progress their characters.  So the players are to blame.
  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

10/10/12 12:54:20 PM#16
Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by InFlamestwo

You can group up with people if you want to. Have you tried?

The only thing you don't need to group up is in Open World. how often do you group up with people while leveling in WoW, Aion etc? only when you need the same boss kill perhaps.

Yes, I did try to group up in GW2, but without luck. Did only one dungeon (AC SM), had some WvW with my old guild in party (only 4 hours or so total), and the rest of my 150+ hours of GW2 felt like a single-player game. No thank you! Even GW(1) which was not sold as MMORPG feels more like one than GW2 does.

On the 2nd question. WoW is much the same like GW2. No parties unless you get into a dungeon *sadly*. Aion with it's 'forced party areas' has more chance for party play, even if you don't have the same quests to run. Playing TERA right now, and in the 20 hours I've played since last week when I started, I've had 2 hours of party already (lvl 23 now).

I'm going to have to admit I find this interesting. During the past two weeks I've almost exclusively been grouped up... but it's been content that you're intended (to a degree at least) group up for. WvWvW. We get into TS3 for the server, get into the appropriate channel for the map we're going into (instant vocal grouping with the whole server WvW populaton), get into a five pan party for smaller grouping and specific tasks, etc. It's been a blast. Also I've been grouped (obviously) for assorted dungeons (Arah story mode being the most recent). Not so much grouping during basic PvE, but then again as mentioned that's the norm in all MMOs really. However the group mechanics dynamically come into play then... it's becoming natural to see people and work with them rather than try to avoid them. Used to be a time in MMOs when other people were hinderances to your progression... kill tagging and stealing, racing to nodes, crap like that. You saw people and dreaded it or at least went a different direction because you were rewarded for levelling alone. Now in GW2 it's more rewarding to go where the people are to see what's happening and join them. IMO, this is a good thing.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  jondifool

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 1122

10/10/12 2:06:05 PM#17
Originally posted by Rhianni32
Originally posted by Dibdabs
Originally posted by jondifool

Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist.  

Ok, I'll bite... what "normal social parts of MMO" do you refer to?  I'm genuinely interested.

Yeah I am curious too.

Are lots of players missing out on the chuck norris jokes?

normal parts like "making friends" because you actual ended up in a remote and dangerous area together and either worked together and teamed up or stole kills from each others. And without teleport travel you where actual stucked to be together for a while, making it shared experience. The ease ArenaNet have given us to travel with does mean that there simply is less need to talk.And shared experience is with strangers that zone out before the next thing happend!

 

read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  cdestey

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/06
Posts: 72

10/10/12 2:28:06 PM#18
Originally posted by jondifool
Originally posted by Rhianni32
Originally posted by Dibdabs
Originally posted by jondifool

Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist.  

Ok, I'll bite... what "normal social parts of MMO" do you refer to?  I'm genuinely interested.

Yeah I am curious too.

Are lots of players missing out on the chuck norris jokes?

normal parts like "making friends" because you actual ended up in a remote and dangerous area together and either worked together and teamed up or stole kills from each others. And without teleport travel you where actual stucked to be together for a while, making it shared experience. The ease ArenaNet have given us to travel with does mean that there simply is less need to talk.And shared experience is with strangers that zone out before the next thing happend!

 

You mean like every other themepark?

The experiences you seem to be describing I remember fondly from SWG and sometimes EvE, but I'm not sure themeparks are that conducive to this type of socializing. At least not that I personally know of.

  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2473

 
OP  10/10/12 3:42:07 PM#19
Originally posted by delete5230

Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community.  This is ANet's formula, they did not screw up, they made it that way on purpose......It's just made too Auto-Dynamic for my liking !

Would I ever buy an expansion ?......Probabbly not, because it will be the same formula.

It's not that I hate the game, it's ok . In fact I play it now and then, an hour here or an hour there.  Got my necro to level 50. Like I say it's well made.

I'm going out of town for almost a month.  When I come back I'm already brain storming:

- Should I play GW2 and make an Engineer, that way I could transfer my cloth to my necro and my leather to my Engeneer so I can up my crafting ? 

- Should I try a WoW private server and see if I could bring back some old times with Vanella ?

- Should I Give EVE a real shot this time ?

- Should I try TSW ?

 

BUT the bottom line is that GW2 is not the Great thing I was hoping for. Its nice but its already one of several !....ANets formula is not really my formula.....I really think that the formula they are using will not keep players playing for years.  Most will play every class they like and off to the next.

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2068

First came pride, then envy.

10/10/12 3:44:20 PM#20

Person A walks into a bar.  Person A sits next to Person B.  Both start talking to each other, then exchange numbers (add to friends list).  Everyone else is sharing environment in bar.

Person A goes to a stadium.  Person A sits with friends.  Everyone else is sharing the experience.

Real life is also Auto-Dynamic.

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