Trending Games | Hearthstone | Guild Wars 2 | Rift | Firefall

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,852,287 Users Online:0
Games:733  Posts:6,226,751
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Gamers in the Game Industry

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search
54 posts found
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12149

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

10/09/12 9:29:38 AM#41
Originally posted by eric1000
People in certain positions within the company need to be gamers, not all of the employees.  Anyone who actively makes decisions concerning the games direction or development needs to be a gamer with a good understanding of both the game and the target audience.  The company also needs people who are experts in other fields if they are to be successful.  It's a nice ideal that everyone should know the game inside out but I would rather have people that actually know what they are doing in the job for which they are employed.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that everyone in the company needs to be a diehard player of the game they are creating, although if your own employees are not playing your game that might prove a warning sign in certain cases.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  GrumpyMel2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1813

10/09/12 3:27:53 PM#42

It really depends on the role the person plays in the company. This holds true accross industries, btw, it isn't restricted to gaming. Certain positions really require an indepth and fundemantal understanding of using the product and what it's like to be a customer of that product, others really don't. It's also possible, though really difficult, to be a in a management position where you don't really use the product....but in that case you really have to be able to trust the judgement of individuals who do when making decisions. Lets use a hypothetical Surfboard Manufacturer company as an example....

- The person who designs the surfboards had better be a surfer and have an in depth understanding of their needs and wants and how they actualy use the boards, as well as the details of what the boards actual do.

- Ditto for the Sales Rep who sells the boards and the Customer Service Rep who interacts with Customers.

- The Accountant who keeps the books straight never needs to have been near the ocean in his life. He just needs to know accounting.

- For the CEO, it really, really HELPS if he's a surfer and understands it well. However a non-surfer CAN function in that job, IF he learns to trust the advice of those who are surfers in matters pertinant to that subject matter. For example, if the designer comes to him and says "If we cut this piece out of the board to save on manufacturing costs, it'll make it virtualy unusable." He needs to trust that expert judgement. On the other hand, if he's going out to try to find the best deal on capital investment...he really doesn't need to as the surfers anything about that to get it done. It's all about knowing your own limitations and knowing who to trust and how to delegate responsibility to subject matter experts.

  CassSmith

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/05
Posts: 16

10/09/12 4:32:23 PM#43
I have to agree wholeheartedly with Smedley, if you dont game yourself, how can you design for gamers?  Yes you can go off "stats" but thats not going to give you the full picture, gamers know what works and what doesnt for you, its hard for a non gamer to even understand the culture, I've tried educating some :P 
cleamarshall Xfire Miniprofile
  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5233

10/10/12 3:52:28 AM#44

Executives took over the gaming industry years ago. That’s what they do in every field of business they enter into. You start with a few and then you have tons of them. You can see this process in the UK in everything from the BBC to the NHS. Old time actors and doctors look around media centres and hospitals and wonder why their organisation needs so many suits now.

That organisation may not now have the quality of output it used to, but it is now keeping a lot of executives in employment. :)

The whole focus of executives on the business approach is meant to make sure the organisation is a success. This can work well, in the gaming industry, like any new industry, lack of business know how caused a lot of gaming companies to waste fortunes on games that never made it.

But once you let the executives, not the innovators and pioneers run the company, what do you think is going to happen? The company just releases safe bets, giving them what they liked before, designing to a template.

The CEO of EA was a VP at Häagen-Daz and some cleaning company. These are the guys who are calling the shots on your next MMO. God help us.

  m249saw

Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/08
Posts: 5

10/10/12 11:21:12 PM#45
lame argument.  a programmer is hired for his skills and expertise in coding.   i cringe everytime i see a bug list of a game that goes unfixed for months and developers continues to dump garbagage code on top of it.  only silly people like you think a gamer would somehow write better code.
  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

10/10/12 11:38:20 PM#46

Hmmm plenty of games have been made by "true" gamers... (love how true = what I think a gamer is..lol)

 

and they died.... even faster than the ones lead by non-gamers.

Wonder why that is?  Whole article is a bit too much like gamers patting themselves on the back.  I'll fix the entire article: good games are made by smart people.

 

Look at any game forums....do you REALLY think they'd make good gamers?

 

 

  Isane

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/06
Posts: 2696

"Some do , Some don''t , Others just cry"

Jean Sali

10/13/12 4:50:40 PM#47

I am sure the author eats a bag of sugar before each article.....

The best designers are not always gamers and vice- versa. Knowledge know how and in depth knowledge always works. But some people who are gamers made it in this industry , when there was no competition and money could be easily made.

Second time round they proved they were clueless about , how to run a business and develop a game.

The Authors viewpoint is flawed and wrong. What is for certain is it doesn't do any harm but it is not the case you have to be a gamer. You just need to understand the industry and that can be done via good communication skills and nothing more.

 

________________________________________________________
SWTOR and COS games that could deliver !!

  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 765

10/14/12 3:23:45 AM#48

uMMMM The comments people are making are funny  a bit, do you people even have a clue the time needed for a DEV to make an MMo,  I was a hardcore gamer, I went to school because I wanted to make games and such, after going to school getting a job and designing my own stuff, Devs do not have time much anymore to Play a game that often....

 

Do you people think it takes 5 seconds to make a game,  making simple models textures and even game play mechanics take alot of time to do, and you need to make sure your on top of your field by practicing alot... So this topic is funny when you think devs have all the time in the world to play games, when we do not have the time we once had before, I game very little these days because of trying to get to know my field and learn new things daily...

So get in the field then come back , then you will agree and your comments will change, I was that way before I got in the field thinking what some of you have in the past, but I know better now.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12149

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

10/14/12 6:45:14 AM#49
Originally posted by Darkcrystal

uMMMM The comments people are making are funny  a bit, do you people even have a clue the time needed for a DEV to make an MMo,  I was a hardcore gamer, I went to school because I wanted to make games and such, after going to school getting a job and designing my own stuff, Devs do not have time much anymore to Play a game that often....

Do you people think it takes 5 seconds to make a game,  making simple models textures and even game play mechanics take alot of time to do, and you need to make sure your on top of your field by practicing alot... So this topic is funny when you think devs have all the time in the world to play games, when we do not have the time we once had before, I game very little these days because of trying to get to know my field and learn new things daily...

So get in the field then come back , then you will agree and your comments will change, I was that way before I got in the field thinking what some of you have in the past, but I know better now.

It''s disappointing to hear that you feel your situation is the norm in the industry. If it's any consolation, many devs find time to play games and many devs actually still enjoy playing games. Most studios have a 'gamer tag' list or a list of who's playing what games right now that you can sign up with. Some studios even have organized teams for different games. You'll find that a lot more devs are avid gamers than you think. If the studio that you work at doesn't have a game room, maybe it's time to set one up.

"So get in the field then come back , then you will agree and your comments will change,"

Been in the field for a decade now. Of all the devs I've spoken with and all the few studios I've been to (Origin, EA Tib, Turbine, CCP, NCSoft)  not only has gaming been a common passion among the team members but there have been designated areas and established policies within the studios to support it. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Elsabolts

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 2641

Life Liberty and the Pursuit of those that would threaten It

10/14/12 6:55:28 AM#50

I here by submitt my application with the exception of Funcom, for concederation and approval. Waiting to here back from you.

Sincerly, Personel Photo attached

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2639

10/14/12 7:08:05 AM#51
Originally posted by Angier2758

Hmmm plenty of games have been made by "true" gamers... (love how true = what I think a gamer is..lol)

 

and they died.... even faster than the ones lead by non-gamers.

Wonder why that is?  Whole article is a bit too much like gamers patting themselves on the back.  I'll fix the entire article: good games are made by smart people.

 

Look at any game forums....do you REALLY think they'd make good gamers?

 

 

I dont think you realize which games were made by gamers and which were made by non-gaming suits calling the shots and who are after nothing but profit. Most of the older games, some of which are still succesful today, were designed and developed by gamers. The trend of games quickly dying started in more recent years because the development of those games is being completely controlled by the suits who saw there is more money to be made than they initially thought a decade or so ago.

A comparison:

Diablo 1 & 2, made by gamers - Diablo 3 made by suits

Vanilla WoW made by gamers - TBC made by a mix of gamers and suits - everything in WoW post TBC made by suits

In Diablo's case, most would argue that D1 & D2 were superior games in many ways to D3 (not graphically of course), and D3 lost themajority of its playerbase due to its design decisions driven by the suits / profit and now they are in the process of overhauling a lot of things in the game. A huge portion of D2 players played it for years, they didnt leave in droves shortly after launch like with D3.

WoW has achieved the success it has due to the work done in Vanill and TBC. Since then the direction and focus of the game has changed and with the last couple expansions WOTLK and Cata, MoP has yet to be seen) population started dropping shortly after the release of each.

In both cases, the original devs have since moved on to other companies & projects while less talented people have replaced them. Similar things have happened with other games and their sequels or expansions over the years.

Anyway. The whole gamers making games thing doesnt mean every gamer would make a good game. However only a gamer could actually make a truly good game. A gamer tends to create a game with an actual vision and consideration for what their target audience enjoys. They make decisions based on wether or not the game is enjoyable. A non-gamer / suit makes their decisions based on profit, or lack of it. They dont play their games and dont have the slightest clue what is bad about their games or what their playerbase actually desires.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12149

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

10/14/12 9:55:25 AM#52
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by Angier2758

Hmmm plenty of games have been made by "true" gamers... (love how true = what I think a gamer is..lol)

and they died.... even faster than the ones lead by non-gamers.

Wonder why that is?  Whole article is a bit too much like gamers patting themselves on the back.  I'll fix the entire article: good games are made by smart people.

Look at any game forums....do you REALLY think they'd make good gamers?

I dont think you realize which games were made by gamers and which were made by non-gaming suits calling the shots and who are after nothing but profit. Most of the older games, some of which are still succesful today, were designed and developed by gamers. The trend of games quickly dying started in more recent years because the development of those games is being completely controlled by the suits who saw there is more money to be made than they initially thought a decade or so ago.

A comparison:

Diablo 1 & 2, made by gamers - Diablo 3 made by suits

Vanilla WoW made by gamers - TBC made by a mix of gamers and suits - everything in WoW post TBC made by suits

In Diablo's case, most would argue that D1 & D2 were superior games in many ways to D3 (not graphically of course), and D3 lost themajority of its playerbase due to its design decisions driven by the suits / profit and now they are in the process of overhauling a lot of things in the game. A huge portion of D2 players played it for years, they didnt leave in droves shortly after launch like with D3.

WoW has achieved the success it has due to the work done in Vanill and TBC. Since then the direction and focus of the game has changed and with the last couple expansions WOTLK and Cata, MoP has yet to be seen) population started dropping shortly after the release of each.

In both cases, the original devs have since moved on to other companies & projects while less talented people have replaced them. Similar things have happened with other games and their sequels or expansions over the years.

Anyway. The whole gamers making games thing doesnt mean every gamer would make a good game. However only a gamer could actually make a truly good game. A gamer tends to create a game with an actual vision and consideration for what their target audience enjoys. They make decisions based on wether or not the game is enjoyable. A non-gamer / suit makes their decisions based on profit, or lack of it. They dont play their games and dont have the slightest clue what is bad about their games or what their playerbase actually desires.

A rather interesting analysis of it. I'm inclined to agree, as with both WoW and the Diablo series it seems like the original vision either got lost in translation or simply changed drastically in the later incarnations.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  VancePants

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/12
Posts: 44

10/17/12 9:00:29 PM#53
Originally posted by Pokket
Originally posted by Sovrath

I'll offer a differing opinion.

I would say that people who don't play games should not be in the position to design games. I would say that people who don't play game could be in positions where being a gamer might not be needed.

Look at Curt Schilling. he was clearly a gamer. But not much of a businessman. Does it matter if you are a gamer if you can't keep the budget on track or bring in new investment?

If I find an amazing artist then it might not be important that they play games but that they are an amazing artist who can bring concepts to life?

What about someone who is an amazing animator? Maybe for movies. But they dont' play games? I think I'd rather take someone who wasn't a gamer but knew their craft well and could be utilized by those who are designing the game.

One of the things I've noted from my limited experiene at game conventions is that there are a lot of people working at game companies who are very unprofessional. I sometimes wonder if some of the issues that seem to plague game companies are that they are run/staffed by gamers and not professionals.

Of course, if you are designing a game then being a gamer and one that understands the game/demographic you are working for would be incredibly important.

 

The problem with, let's say the artist, is that you end up with things like "space pope" in SWTOR. An outfit that looks hilarious (and kind of bad) on male characters, and even silly for female characters (who it seemed designed for because all healers are female, right? *rolls eyes). There were some cool outfits, I'll admit, but most of the artists seemed like they didn't have a firm grasp of what something (like a healing sage) would want to look like. Anyone familiar with the MMO market KNOWS that people want to look bada$$... even if they are HEALING. They don't want to look like they are in a white ball gown, going into a raid with others, to serve tea and crumpets to those on the battlefield.

 

Perhaps a little research would reveal  that people want to look and feel good about their characters, or perhaps just knowing MMOs would have sufficed and saved the trouble. I know a lot of talented artists that play games. Not avidly, but enough to understand. End of story.

 

I can agree that not all execs need to be gamers, unless they are the execs that are, ultimately, calling the shots. Either they need to surround themselves with advisors that know and REALLY understand the game industry (and don't just read charts from gaming trends that are 2 years old), or they need to take the time to understand it themselves.

 

On that note, I thought of my new topic. Thanks!

Executives looking at 2yr old gaming trends are just plain being bad execs. I think there is more of a middle ground that we'e not looking at which is that someone can still be a productive, successful, contributing member of a gaming company without having the 1000+ MMO hours required to delve into (in many cases) just one game.

 

Understanding the gaming industry and being a Gamer, I would say, are two completely different things. A lot of the gamers who might post on here probably happen to be both, but the vast majority of gamers probably don't know a thing or care what's going on. 

 

Will being a Gamer give you advantageous insight? Of course, but that applies to working in any capacity where your profession is also your passion.

(edit: grammar)

:D

  User Deleted
10/17/12 9:06:19 PM#54

The problem really begins when 'suits' begin to run companies and simply look at positions to fill in the company - they lose touch with what made them successful - their games.  How do you make good games? You can't tell a good one from a bad one.

Good companies (Blizz/Anet) are run by people that game for breakfast, lunch and dinner (and midnight snack).

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search