Originally posted by apocoluster
   I didnt care to much for it.  Running from point to point.  Hearts, squares, red arrows, blue arrows and the randoms in between.  Rinse, repeat for each zone.   I agree with teh fast food, in/out metphor of the game, but I also believe they all are.

Well to be fair if you aim to beat WOW in sales that is the only way you can do it. Cater to the masses and please as many people as possible. This is where the profit is.

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by apocoluster
   I didnt care to much for it.  Running from point to point.  Hearts, squares, red arrows, blue arrows and the randoms in between.  Rinse, repeat for each zone.   I agree with teh fast food, in/out metphor of the game, but I also believe they all are.

Well to be fair if you aim to beat WOW in sales that is the only way you can do it. Cater to the masses and please as many people as possible. This is where the profit is.

Short-term profit because, short of WoW, no MMO has had a growing number of subs beside Eve. Almost all of them have shrunk to sub 300k subs or gone F2P.

IMHO, a great game to play in the short term, to play as a "few month" theme park game. For me, it lacks longevity (being for me, a game I play for 6 months or more). Your mileage may vary, of course. 

My take: Worth every penny, a fun theme park, but not a long term game. I will move on to PS2 or something else when it comes along. It should be noted I am a long time MMO vet going back to EQ in 99, and played many of them since then. I used to be hard core, but am now a very casual player (less than 10 hours a week). So, that's my take.

Your post is contradictory. You don't like the fact that GW2 lacks gear grind treadmill progression but are refusing to play classes because you don't like the looks? Mesmers aren't pink btw, all aremor is customizeable. You can make your mesmer look like a priate if you wanted. 

Originally posted by xpiher

Your post is contradictory. You don't like the fact that GW2 lacks gear grind treadmill progression but are refusing to play classes because you don't like the looks? Mesmers aren't pink btw, all aremor is customizeable. You can make your mesmer look like a priate if you wanted. 

I don't see the contradiction. Looks and gear treadmill are two separate things so dont understand how it is contradictory to want to have a gear grind treadmill and also thinking looks is important. Neither of them excludes the other.

And Mesmer skills are pink and that is not customizable. Also they have butterflies and stuff and for me that is quite effeminate and one of the reasons I could not play the class.

GW2 is not your home. It is theme park. You read about it, watch videos, listen marketing bullshit and buy ticket. After month or two you have visited in all roller coasters, saw all clowns and listened all jokes,  then you group up with your "friends" and ride roller coaster with them until you realize that you don't really enjoy from ride anymore - you are only riding to chat with your friends. Eventually less and less your friends come to "enjoy" ride and only come to see you when park have a new amusement or clown have a new trick. Then you move neighbour city park that have a new big roller coaster.  If you enjoyed on games like WoW, then there is big chance you will enjoy from GW2 - only difference is that thrill ride is bit more longer and cotton candy is bit more pink than red  You don't build your cities or leave your mark to park - it is not your park - not your home.

Originally posted by darkcircuit

*snip*

 and although I enjoy the levelling experience, I usually find endgame very tedious due to the large number of hours you have to commit to it regulary or you get left behind. Don't get me wrong, I am willing to commit a large number of hours to playing an MMO (20+ a week), but those hours have to be on my terms and they do differ slightly per week. My most recent MMO experience was with Tera and although I did enjoy the refreshing combat style, I found Frogsters support and the endgame options a little lacking (dungeon crawling the same dungeons over and over gets a little tedious). I'm a PVE player and I play with my SO, however she isn't as willing as me to commit such large hours to play so I do kind of get held back a little by her. I tend to enjoy playing in a small group of people as opposed to joining large guilds and becoming just another number.

I kept an eye on Guild Wars 2 for a long time and Tera was only supposed to be a temporary home while I waited for GW2 to hit, but now it has, I'm really struggling to find a good reason to play it. I'm guessing the real reasons are that I'm finding it very hard to find a MALE profession/race combination that really appeals to me, I'm not so keen on the idea that gear doesn't really play a part, that its only for looks and also that I'm primarily a PVE player and it seems that GW2 is more focussed on PVP (please correct me if I'm wrong). Regarding the class/profession, recently I've favoured a melee tank character as I preferred the heavily armoured look, but have recently decided to go back to my roots and play a caster in my next MMO. If I did that I would really only have 2 choices in GW2 IMO and that would be either Necromancer or Elementalist (not a fan of the pink Mesmer). From what I've seen of elementalist, I'm not really a fan of the 'clean' look of them and I think I would prefer the darker Necromancer, but it seems that Necromancer is seen as a weak/easy class to play in the reviews I've read, is this true?

Sorry for the wall of text, I just want to be 100% sure that GW2 is going to be a suitable home before I lay out some cash. Guess you could see this as a cry for help, but as I'm getting older I'm finding it harder and harder to find a community of people my age to play with that play in GMT, so if there are a group of friends looking to adopt another in GW2, please let me know.

From all of the above I gather that you basically don't want your MMO to be a second job you come home to. Good news GW2 is not about raiding for hours on end until your eyes bleed. On the other hand some hardcore gamers will find that there isn't enough to strive for since there is no real gear threadmill. If you only play for about 20 hours a week, you're far from hardcore however.

Gear does play a part, but the gear you get from doing dungeons isn't fundamentally superior to the set you can craft or obtain from a karma or cultural set vendor. You can get your gear how you want. Nobody will be forcing you to be there on raid evenings or be left behind.

In PvP everyone is level 80 and has access to all the gear, sigils and runes for free. No need to suffer until you gather enough tokens to get your resilience up. Level playing field is the goal, though some builds will be more effective than others. 

On the casters I can only say this: try all three. You might find mesmer too pink, but with all the different weapon combinations out there, it's entirely possible you'll be surprised by what class you actually like best.

You'll never be 100% sure GW2 will become your MMO home, but with what you've mentioned above, the odds should be quite good that you'll be happy you made the purchase.

Oh the "hardcore" debate in MMOs...

What is hardcore PvP? Full loot and/or perma-death? Or is it eSport skill based game play (as you can't buy/grind any advantage) so only the truly skilled propser?

What is hardcore PvE? Raiding?

I've been playing MMOs since UO circa 1999, and GW2 is the best MMO I have played since Vanilla WoW.

Well worth 60$, if you can't afford that - you shouldn't be gaming: honestly gaming (especially PC gaming) is an expensive hobby.

Originally posted by darkcircuit

Hey all,

Basically the reason for starting this thread was in the hope that someone could persuade me to get off the fence and purchase GW2 and start playing;  you will get some feedback that here.

A bit of background about myself, as the title states I'm an MMO vet (29) and I've played pretty much every mainstream MMO out there and although I enjoy the levelling experience, I usually find endgame very tedious due to the large number of hours you have to commit to it regulary or you get left behind. Thats where GW2 shines - as you are in NO way forced to commit a large numbers of hours to not get left behind. because you actual hit max lvl equipment after a decent play time, and for alts its just becomes alot easyer. Leveling toons and alts, and the downlevel mechanic that let you play on pretty even terms in lower level zones, really does wonders to keep that part of the game a "good choice" for  social gaming  Don't get me wrong, I am willing to commit a large number of hours to playing an MMO (20+ a week), but those hours have to be on my terms and they do differ slightly per week. GW2 might be the MMO best suited yet for different needs at different time, simply because everything is accessable for everyone without having to spend alot of preperation time.  My most recent MMO experience was with Tera and although I did enjoy the refreshing combat style, I found Frogsters support and the endgame options a little lacking (dungeon crawling the same dungeons over and over gets a little tedious). GW2's dungeouns is not it strongest point, however it is not it's selling point either. They are fine for what they are supposed to do in this kind of game. Again accesable for everyone- with some variation (the different path) and you really only should grind them if you opt for that specific reward they offer. I'm a PVE player and I play with my SO, however she isn't as willing as me to commit such large hours to play so I do kind of get held back a little by her. GW2 is properly the MMO so far that actual allows the best options for people with different time investment to actual play together in a meaningsfull way. In that way GW2 is made for playing with the SO. I tend to enjoy playing in a small group of people as opposed to joining large guilds and becoming just another number. Small groups can enjoy PvE zones the best, exspect to be large numbers at the big events, but as no time is waisted forming groups, its just become a part of the dayly flow. 

I kept an eye on Guild Wars 2 for a long time and Tera was only supposed to be a temporary home while I waited for GW2 to hit, but now it has, I'm really struggling to find a good reason to play it. That i don't get- every part of your post screams for GW2. I'm guessing the real reasons are that I'm finding it very hard to find a MALE profession/race combination that really appeals to me, I'm not so keen on the idea that gear doesn't really play a part, gears do play a big part ,as does trait builds- the combo of wich gear and what build is really important for the efficientcy of your build. Unfortunatly is PvE in open world a little to easy and as such it is really in most cases a point of getting the best damage gear. But that change in WvW, SPvP and dungeouns. And hopefully sometimes in the future as well in standard Zone PvE. But suddenly the other armor combinations becomes very interesting. that its only for looks and also that I'm primarily a PVE player and it seems that GW2 is more focussed on PVP (please correct me if I'm wrong) Well that is wrong as GW2 came with a full PvE envierment but a scrapped version of what sPvP would offer, WvW looks fine though. The latest blogpost have just elaborate on whats in store for sPvP. Regarding the class/profession, recently I've favoured a melee tank character as I preferred the heavily armoured look, but have recently decided to go back to my roots and play a caster in my next MMO. Try them out in sPvP , there is instant acces to a max lvl charceter with all items and skills unlocked from lvl2 (after doing the 10 minutes tutorial. You can then spend an hour or 2 finding out if the class mechanics and skill is for you, delete the toon if not and make another. Thats the best time investment you can spend, insted of leveling a class that you later find out is not for you. If I did that I would really only have 2 choices in GW2 IMO and that would be either Necromancer or Elementalist (not a fan of the pink Mesmer).The Mesmer is fun though, a really unique class to play, and in many ways feel like a strategy tank class. From what I've seen of elementalist, I'm not really a fan of the 'clean' look of them and I think I would prefer the darker Necromancer, but it seems that Necromancer is seen as a weak/easy class to play in the reviews I've read, is this true? All the light armour classes share armor anyway - so in terms of looks it's really about spell effeckts-

Sorry for the wall of text, I just want to be 100% sure that GW2 is going to be a suitable home before I lay out some cash. I think it could be, and with no montly fee why not try it out!  Guess you could see this as a cry for help, but as I'm getting older I'm finding it harder and harder to find a community of people my age to play with that play in GMT, so if there are a group of friends looking to adopt another in GW2, please let me know. See that is a good call , because GW2 biggest weakness is that it have been made so accessable that there is less need for socialicing  in terms of actual form a PUG , or just talking in chat. And as such  you really need a mature guild to hang out with to keep it the value from compagny ingame, fortunatly there is alot of advertisment from guilds seeking members ingame, because they can really use your activity in every guild.

 

Gw2 is worth the ~ 100 hours it takes to get one character to 80, but IMO this is not a game that is deep enough to be your main MMORPG. It is a very shallow game, targeted for your average casual player.

The lack of CS, poor WvW implementation rampant bots, teleportation hacks - slow dev response, I have serious lack of drive to support Anet. Even their cash shop is badly designed - there is literally no reason to spend any RL cash you can convert in game gold to gems and buy everything you want.

I question Anets ability to support the game long term, as MMORPGs are living breathing projects that require constant development, tweaks, and new content - all that requires lots of money coming in.

Still fun game for what it is.

Originally posted by DMKano

Gw2 is worth the ~ 100 hours it takes to get one character to 80, but IMO this is not a game that is deep enough to be your main MMORPG. It is a very shallow game, targeted for your average casual player.

The lack of CS, poor WvW implementation rampant bots, teleportation hacks - slow dev response, I have serious lack of drive to support Anet. Even their cash shop is badly designed - there is literally no reason to spend any RL cash you can convert in game gold to gems and buy everything you want.

I question Anets ability to support the game long term, as MMORPGs are living breathing projects that require constant development, tweaks, and new content - all that requires lots of money coming in.

Still fun game for what it is.

You forgot to mention bugs, broken DE's, personal stories, broken heart NPC, SP's etc.

Forging the pact is still bugged after over a month. They try to fix it in every patch and it breaks again.  It is really embarassing for a AAA title. I don't care for bots its the bugs that annoy me. All the bugs that were there at release are still present. 

Personally, I would wait until the price drops to something reasonable and then try it for yourself.  By that time, various bugs/glitches and other problems will hopefully be sorted, too.

I'm enjoying the game, but not as much as I hoped I would.  For some reason I can't settle on any one class.  I've been like this in every mmo I've played over the last 3 yrs or so and I take it to mean that I'm basically just burnt-out on the genre and need to have lots of alts I hope between in order to keep things feeling "fresh".  

GW2 has a lot to commend it, though, so definitely give it a try if/when you can afford it.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by xpiher

Your post is contradictory. You don't like the fact that GW2 lacks gear grind treadmill progression but are refusing to play classes because you don't like the looks? Mesmers aren't pink btw, all aremor is customizeable. You can make your mesmer look like a priate if you wanted. 

I don't see the contradiction. Looks and gear treadmill are two separate things so dont understand how it is contradictory to want to have a gear grind treadmill and also thinking looks is important. Neither of them excludes the other.

And Mesmer skills are pink and that is not customizable. Also they have butterflies and stuff and for me that is quite effeminate and one of the reasons I could not play the class.

Remember that in the 1800's pink was a man's colour and blue was for women. That is the dumbest reason I have heard of in a long time. You have this goofy idea about what a man is.

The mesmer name goes back to Franz Mesmer who's ideas led to hypnosis. The butterfly's come from The Butterfly effect from Chaos theory. It is the bending of one's mind and time to different effects. I think it is perfectly interesting and deep.

If you want a gear treadmill - to be UBER and stomp others, then this game IS NOT for you. No need to be insulting.

Originally posted by Yamota

I am an MMO vet as well but unlike you I am more into MMO PvP than PvE. That being said I enjoy GW 2 PvE far more than the PvP. The Elementalist is really fun as you get 5 spells per attunement (fire, water, air and earth) and an additional 5 utility skills which gives you a total of 25 skills to play around with, and this can be quite challenging and fun.

The Necro I haven't tried, mostly because I read the description for their skills and was not very impressed. Some weak insect-like pets, dots, lifesteal and mostly ground targetted buffs/debuffs. And unlike the Elementalist, but like all other classes, you get to play with only 5+5 (per weapon) plus another 5 utility skills which gives you only 15 skills total. Not enough for me.

However, altough the path to level 80 has been quite fun (PvE-wise), now that I am now level 80 I have absolutely no urge to continue playing my Elementalist. Reason is that the end-game is incredibly weak. Basically it is about really hard dungeons which has rewards which are mostly for looks, as they are only marginally better than the full set of lvl 80 rare items I am using right now. Then you have a huge grind for getting so called Legendary weapons, which again are marginally better than my current equipment.

Other than that you have PvP which for me was a huge dissapointment. There are basically two modes of PvP play. One is some sort of arena based PvP which is completely separated from the rest of the game as you are instantly leveled to max and given equipment based on your class. Completely pointless if you ask me because I would much rather play MOBA games for that as it is much more fun for a quick PvP fix.

Then you have the World vs World PvP event which is again mostly separate from the rest of the game as it is in a separate zone and only have some small bonuses which I think, but not sure, carries over to the PvE world. Regardless, it is basically about moving from control point to control point and flipping them back and forth to get exp, loot, karma (special currency). It is also almost completely pointless as the bonuses for holding control points are small and meaningless because the PvE is pretty easy anyway (except dungeons) so it is fun for a while but quickly, atleast for me, gets boring when you realise that it does not matter much who controls what.

So anyway, if you want to have some great PvE fun for a month or two then GW 2 is a fun game and well worth the box price. But if you are like me, who is looking for the MMORPGs of the past which you could get stuck for months, if not years into an immersive virtual world, then forget about it. They don't make MMO's like that anymore...

I AGREE 100%!!  This guy thinks exactly how I do.

GW2 is very fun to go from LVL 1-80 in PVE, interesting to explore and play through. Dungeons are not fun enough or rewarding enough for the frsutrating difficulty. You die and die and die even when doing things right most times. In the end you gain little rewards. You don't fin some super rare cool looking item in this game pretty muich ever.

The PVP as a whole is pointless to me because I play DOTA 2 and FPS games. The PVP in GW2 is tryin to make you play that kind of thing(arena based pvp) but in an MMORPG. Its in a world apart from teh PVE world, both PVPs make you instant lvl 80 even if you are LVL 1 in the PVE game. Then you play to hold points that is all. You can't carry hardly anything you fight for over to the PVE world either.

I say buy the game and play it 1-80, it is good enough for the price. But it wil have no replayablility for me after I reach 80 unless they add a heck of a lot more to the PVP for me.

Originally posted by khameleon

Originally posted by Yamota

I am an MMO vet as well but unlike you I am more into MMO PvP than PvE. That being said I enjoy GW 2 PvE far more than the PvP. The Elementalist is really fun as you get 5 spells per attunement (fire, water, air and earth) and an additional 5 utility skills which gives you a total of 25 skills to play around with, and this can be quite challenging and fun.

The Necro I haven't tried, mostly because I read the description for their skills and was not very impressed. Some weak insect-like pets, dots, lifesteal and mostly ground targetted buffs/debuffs. And unlike the Elementalist, but like all other classes, you get to play with only 5+5 (per weapon) plus another 5 utility skills which gives you only 15 skills total. Not enough for me.

However, altough the path to level 80 has been quite fun (PvE-wise), now that I am now level 80 I have absolutely no urge to continue playing my Elementalist. Reason is that the end-game is incredibly weak. Basically it is about really hard dungeons which has rewards which are mostly for looks, as they are only marginally better than the full set of lvl 80 rare items I am using right now. Then you have a huge grind for getting so called Legendary weapons, which again are marginally better than my current equipment.

Other than that you have PvP which for me was a huge dissapointment. There are basically two modes of PvP play. One is some sort of arena based PvP which is completely separated from the rest of the game as you are instantly leveled to max and given equipment based on your class. Completely pointless if you ask me because I would much rather play MOBA games for that as it is much more fun for a quick PvP fix.

Then you have the World vs World PvP event which is again mostly separate from the rest of the game as it is in a separate zone and only have some small bonuses which I think, but not sure, carries over to the PvE world. Regardless, it is basically about moving from control point to control point and flipping them back and forth to get exp, loot, karma (special currency). It is also almost completely pointless as the bonuses for holding control points are small and meaningless because the PvE is pretty easy anyway (except dungeons) so it is fun for a while but quickly, atleast for me, gets boring when you realise that it does not matter much who controls what.

So anyway, if you want to have some great PvE fun for a month or two then GW 2 is a fun game and well worth the box price. But if you are like me, who is looking for the MMORPGs of the past which you could get stuck for months, if not years into an immersive virtual world, then forget about it. They don't make MMO's like that anymore...

I AGREE 100%!!  This guy thinks exactly how I do.

GW2 is very fun to go from LVL 1-80 in PVE, interesting to explore and play through. Dungeons are not fun enough or rewarding enough for the frsutrating difficulty. You die and die and die even when doing things right most times. In the end you gain little rewards. You don't fin some super rare cool looking item in this game pretty muich ever.

The PVP as a whole is pointless to me because I play DOTA 2 and FPS games. The PVP in GW2 is tryin to make you play that kind of thing(arena based pvp) but in an MMORPG. Its in a world apart from teh PVE world, both PVPs make you instant lvl 80 even if you are LVL 1 in the PVE game. Then you play to hold points that is all. You can't carry hardly anything you fight for over to the PVE world either.

I say buy the game and play it 1-80, it is good enough for the price. But it wil have no replayablility for me after I reach 80 unless they add a heck of a lot more to the PVP for me.

The Tyrian map has large areas that you went to in GW1. Where we are playing now is, GW1: Prophecies and GW:EotN. You have Cantha and Elona to deal with in expansions as well as other parts from Propheices they have not put in the game yet. If all you think you are going to get in GW2 was what was released at the beginning, you didn't play GW1 and understand how A.Net develops games.

With GW2, milage varies wildly. Many have found their home, Many have found it little more than a rest station on the highway. Either way, the vast majority will still tell you it was worth the boxed cost.

Personally, I was disappointed that for me, the game failed to live up to the hype....well, not really disappointed, I kinda expected it not to, knowing what I like and dislike in long term gaming. That said, I would still buy it again knowing what I know. I, along with 3 friends, all started playing at opening, we played a few nights a week for a few weeks and it was absolutely a blast. Sad to say, the game has fizzled out but even still, it was at least as much fun for at least as long as any other $60.00 game I've purchsed.

As an mmo veteran I felt a little insulted at the overly simplified attitude of everything in Guild Wars 2. You have your hand held from the very beginning and it doesn't feel like I'm developing a character, only unlocking skills and costumes. Once you get the set of skills needed to play how you want there is no other reason to continue other than cosmetic upgrades.

The sPvP is fun for the first 5 or so matches but when you start working well with a team mate and they suddenly get placed on the other team it destroys the camaraderie.

WvW is an awesome concept but it falls flat due to severe lack of motivation. I don't really care about my server, bragging rights is not enough to keep me interested. There is no real reward, and there is no risk.

For me the bottom line for this game is a question in the title given to the game, much like the question I put forth to WoW fans which has never been answered (Where is the "war" in world of WARcraft?): Where can I find the fucking GUILD WARS?

Edit: Fixed a formatting bug.

as bangs for buck go, this is the best mmo bang for your buck out at the moment, and besides, you really can feel the love the devs put into it

that being said, it's still a bit rough at some edges and bland at some others, but... all the problems that do exist are blown way out of proportion on these here forums. yeah, you do wait for wvw... for 10-30 minutes at most. yeah, there are de's that are bugged... but the vast majority isn't. there might be some bots around but i haven't seen em yet. people are geting spoiled nowadays, it's amazing that a game with this much sheer content does not have much more things to gripe about. all in all, its very VERY far from all those buggy failures we've been subjected to since wow's release, and that makes all this negativity even more ridiculous. human psychology is a funny thing innit? once we get used to being disappointed and bitchin we'll fight tooth and nail for our right to remain miserable.

the thing is that a lot of peeps on mmorpg.com are grizzled veterans who don't see a mmo as a "game" but rather as a "second life" they can live in. well, GW2 is a game, first and foremost. if you dig it that way then it's awesome - by all counts. really, i didn't feel this cool playing a fantasy rpg on a PC since diablo 2. so many things to do and explore!!! if you play it as a game, you'll have a blast. on the other hand, if you're looking for a virtual place you'll get a "real" sense of accomplishment from, look elsewhere - EVE is that way. GW2 might be further developed into something with more "weight" but at the moment it is a light game, a "casual" one in the best possible way. difficult and challenging at times, but light nevertheless. personally i wouldn't have it any other way, although i wouldn't be adverse at giving it some more depth vis-a-vis long term motivation and stuff. maybe it'll happen later on in the game's life cycle, we'll see.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

With GW2, milage varies wildly. Many have found their home, Many have found it little more than a rest station on the highway. Either way, the vast majority will still tell you it was worth the boxed cost.

 

Personally, I was disappointed that for me, the game failed to live up to the hype....well, not really disappointed, I kinda expected it not to, knowing what I like and dislike in long term gaming. That said, I would still buy it again knowing what I know. I, along with 3 friends, all started playing at opening, we played a few nights a week for a few weeks and it was absolutely a blast. Sad to say, the game has fizzled out but even still, it was at least as much fun for at least as long as any other $60.00 game I've purchsed.

Ever hear the phrase, 'self-fullfulling prophecy'? You thought it would be a bomb, so you were pre-disposed to think about the game that way.