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General Gaming  » BioWare is dead. Electronic Arts (EA) is all thats left :-(

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88 posts found
  Gardavsshade

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 636

10/08/12 5:16:57 AM#41
Originally posted by observer

EA is not to blame here.  Bioware's overall game design is to blame.

  • Terrible Use of the Hero Engine
  • Annoying Traveling System (too much zoning and clicking)
  • Tiered Class Design (same as EQ2 at launch)
  • Combat System (mechanics of a Fantasy system didn't translate well)
  • Fleets as central hubs (instead of capital cities)
  • Exhaustion "Zones" (tattooine, really?)
  • Linear Questing on Rails (basically one zone after another to advance in PvE leveling)
  • Replay Value Diminished (creating alts wasn't enjoyable; stuck in same starter zones for specific classes, akin to WoW's phasing for Worgen/Goblin/Pandas)
I haven't even touched upon the Legacy System, which was really bad, but i hope you all get the point.
Remeber though, i didn't list the standard dungeons & pvp systems, because those are expected.  It's the overall design of the MMO that was bad.

True... Bioware didn't know what they were doing to be honest... they never made a MMO before.... so EA is not the only one to blame...

LA and Ea should have been thier jobs overseeing the project, and failed miserably.

I'll leave it there.


Nothing to see here... just another MMO Ghost....

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

10/08/12 6:11:06 AM#42
Originally posted by observer

EA is not to blame here.  Bioware's overall game design is to blame.

  • Terrible Use of the Hero Engine
  • Annoying Traveling System (too much zoning and clicking)
  • Tiered Class Design (same as EQ2 at launch)
  • Combat System (mechanics of a Fantasy system didn't translate well)
  • Fleets as central hubs (instead of capital cities)
  • Exhaustion "Zones" (tattooine, really?)
  • Linear Questing on Rails (basically one zone after another to advance in PvE leveling)
  • Replay Value Diminished (creating alts wasn't enjoyable; stuck in same starter zones for specific classes, akin to WoW's phasing for Worgen/Goblin/Pandas)
I haven't even touched upon the Legacy System, which was really bad, but i hope you all get the point.
Remeber though, i didn't list the standard dungeons & pvp systems, because those are expected.  It's the overall design of the MMO that was bad.

I still blame EA, as the game was huge, and Bioware are slow, and take ages to release stuff, as they make sure the game is all working OK before it gets launched. With EA, they wanted the game out ASAP, and getting them their monthly subs.

There was an article with Dallas Dickinson (who also was a part of SWG and the reason they thought the game needed the NGE as I think it was her who said people did not want to be a moisture farmer or something, she may have been part of Bioware for SWTOR but she is not part of the Biioware team that gave Bioware its awesome reputation) saying that a lot of content was dropped to get the game out, and things like the spaceports looked all identical was because there was no time to make them different.

You can not rush quality, and that is exactly what happened with SWTOR, it got rushed, and quality took a nose dive. EA rushed Bioware, but then with a game of this size Bioware would taken about 5 more years or maybe more, but then it was only big because EA poured more money into than Bioware could afford.

Given what they had to work with, and in the timeframe they had, Bioware did well, and any other company would have made more of a pigs ear of it.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5290

10/08/12 6:17:14 AM#43
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by observer

EA is not to blame here.  Bioware's overall game design is to blame.

  • Terrible Use of the Hero Engine
  • Annoying Traveling System (too much zoning and clicking)
  • Tiered Class Design (same as EQ2 at launch)
  • Combat System (mechanics of a Fantasy system didn't translate well)
  • Fleets as central hubs (instead of capital cities)
  • Exhaustion "Zones" (tattooine, really?)
  • Linear Questing on Rails (basically one zone after another to advance in PvE leveling)
  • Replay Value Diminished (creating alts wasn't enjoyable; stuck in same starter zones for specific classes, akin to WoW's phasing for Worgen/Goblin/Pandas)
I haven't even touched upon the Legacy System, which was really bad, but i hope you all get the point.
Remeber though, i didn't list the standard dungeons & pvp systems, because those are expected.  It's the overall design of the MMO that was bad.

I still blame EA, as the game was huge, and Bioware are slow, and take ages to release stuff, as they make sure the game is all working OK before it gets launched. With EA, they wanted the game out ASAP, and getting them their monthly subs.

There was an article with Dallas Dickinson (who also was a part of SWG and the reason they thought the game needed the NGE as I think it was her who said people did not want to be a moisture farmer or something, she may have been part of Bioware for SWTOR but she is not part of the Biioware team that gave Bioware its awesome reputation) saying that a lot of content was dropped to get the game out, and things like the spaceports looked all identical was because there was no time to make them different.

You can not rush quality, and that is exactly what happened with SWTOR, it got rushed, and quality took a nose dive. EA rushed Bioware, but then with a game of this size Bioware would taken about 5 more years or maybe more, but then it was only big because EA poured more money into than Bioware could afford.

Given what they had to work with, and in the timeframe they had, Bioware did well, and any other company would have made more of a pigs ear of it.

How was it rushed? They spend over 5 years on the darn game. More than most developers have these days.

They wasted a hell of a resources on the stupid Space Part they should have left out at launch and spend that time on the ground game to polish it and to the level it is now with Patch 1.4 .

If the game was released last year with the content, patches and updates up until and including patch 1.4, the overal response would have been a lot different.

But they had to have Space in the game at launch and did it terribly. Huge waste of resources!

Then directly after launch they could have focussed on the usual fixes and start working on adding mini games and other non-combat activities.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

10/08/12 6:27:50 AM#44
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by observer

EA is not to blame here.  Bioware's overall game design is to blame.

  • Terrible Use of the Hero Engine
  • Annoying Traveling System (too much zoning and clicking)
  • Tiered Class Design (same as EQ2 at launch)
  • Combat System (mechanics of a Fantasy system didn't translate well)
  • Fleets as central hubs (instead of capital cities)
  • Exhaustion "Zones" (tattooine, really?)
  • Linear Questing on Rails (basically one zone after another to advance in PvE leveling)
  • Replay Value Diminished (creating alts wasn't enjoyable; stuck in same starter zones for specific classes, akin to WoW's phasing for Worgen/Goblin/Pandas)
I haven't even touched upon the Legacy System, which was really bad, but i hope you all get the point.
Remeber though, i didn't list the standard dungeons & pvp systems, because those are expected.  It's the overall design of the MMO that was bad.

I still blame EA, as the game was huge, and Bioware are slow, and take ages to release stuff, as they make sure the game is all working OK before it gets launched. With EA, they wanted the game out ASAP, and getting them their monthly subs.

There was an article with Dallas Dickinson (who also was a part of SWG and the reason they thought the game needed the NGE as I think it was her who said people did not want to be a moisture farmer or something, she may have been part of Bioware for SWTOR but she is not part of the Biioware team that gave Bioware its awesome reputation) saying that a lot of content was dropped to get the game out, and things like the spaceports looked all identical was because there was no time to make them different.

You can not rush quality, and that is exactly what happened with SWTOR, it got rushed, and quality took a nose dive. EA rushed Bioware, but then with a game of this size Bioware would taken about 5 more years or maybe more, but then it was only big because EA poured more money into than Bioware could afford.

Given what they had to work with, and in the timeframe they had, Bioware did well, and any other company would have made more of a pigs ear of it.

How was it rushed? They spend over 5 years on the darn game. More than most developers have these days.

They wasted a hell of a resources on the stupid Space Part they should have left out at launch and spend that time on the ground game to polish it and to the level it is now with Patch 1.4 .

If the game was released last year with the content, patches and updates up until and including patch 1.4, the overal response would have been a lot different.

But they had to have Space in the game at launch and did it terribly. Huge waste of resources!

Then directly after launch they could have focussed on the usual fixes and start working on adding mini games and other non-combat activities.

Like I said there is a Behind the Scenes interview with several people including Dallas Dickinsion, and they said a lot of content had to be dropped, and the spaceports all  look identical because there was no time to make them look different.

The game was HUGE ad not viable for a decent quality MMO within 5 years, and Bioware are generally slow (and even the original Mass Effect game took over 2 years to get released), and no doubt there was conflicts going on between the two - EA and Bioware, slowing things down even further. With all the money and hype with the game, the pressure of it all was also HUGE.

Bioware would not have been able to do it without EAs backing, but if they could have done, the game would have been a whole lot better.

  defector1968

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/10
Posts: 400

Real Animal lovers are ONLY the vegetarians

10/08/12 6:40:59 AM#45
Originally posted by iceman00
Originally posted by defector1968
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Origin
Bullfrog
Maxis
Westwood
Firaxis
Mythic
Bioware

Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

hope not Bethesda, arent many good left

Bethesda is owned by Zenimax.  EA simply couldn't get the capital required to take over Zenimax, nor would Zenimax have any interest in such a deal.

actually ZeniMax Media is parent company of Bethesda Softworks (its a side company) but most people dont know zenimax thast why i refered as bethesda

  defector1968

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/10
Posts: 400

Real Animal lovers are ONLY the vegetarians

10/08/12 6:45:18 AM#46
Originally posted by JeroKane

How was it rushed? They spend over 5 years on the darn game. More than most developers have these days.

They wasted a hell of a resources on the stupid Space Part they should have left out at launch and spend that time on the ground game to polish it and to the level it is now with Patch 1.4 .

If the game was released last year with the content, patches and updates up until and including patch 1.4, the overal response would have been a lot different.

But they had to have Space in the game at launch and did it terribly. Huge waste of resources!

Then directly after launch they could have focussed on the usual fixes and start working on adding mini games and other non-combat activities.

(yellow) LOL space? huge waste of money? thats a 2 month work, a shooter tunneled shootem up can be created from a single person in some months

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

10/08/12 6:51:49 AM#47

Here is the article:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

 

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

10/08/12 8:28:25 AM#48
Originally posted by superniceguy

Here is the article:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

 

Seems to me you missread.

 

The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).

 

It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.

It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

10/08/12 8:34:18 AM#49
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy

Here is the article:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

 

Seems to me you missread.

 

The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).

 

It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.

It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october

That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this

They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks

 

 

  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

10/08/12 8:35:30 AM#50
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by defector1968
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Origin
Bullfrog
Maxis
Westwood
Firaxis
Mythic
Bioware

Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

hope not Bethesda, arent many good left

Yeah or Rockstar

but hopefully with the poor year that EA have had, people will avoid them like the plague, and EA will not have enough money to con(vince) them to join them

"EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry"

Lets not forget their recent achivement

LOL :D

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6830

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

10/08/12 8:40:37 AM#51

I actually feel sorry for Bioware,they should have never sold out to EA.

I go way back to the beginning of Electronic Arts,i was a HUGE fan of EA.Over the years i have seen this operation turn real bad.I was also a big fan of Bioware having owned and played the Baldurs gate games.

I am at the point that i actually detest EA and will not support them at all.EA now owns the rights to Bioware but perhaps the guys that have left can start up a new Bio type developer name and regain their following.

Maybe Biocode...Biofirm...Biotech gaming ..idk something to identify them with the gamers.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

10/08/12 8:42:36 AM#52
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy

Here is the article:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

 

Seems to me you missread.

 

The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).

 

It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.

It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october

That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this

They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks

 

Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons

 

6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.

 

And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

10/08/12 8:49:28 AM#53
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy

Here is the article:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

 

Seems to me you missread.

 

The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).

 

It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.

It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october

That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this

They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks

 

Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons

 

6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.

 

And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.

You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

10/08/12 9:18:54 AM#54
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy

Here is the article:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

 

Seems to me you missread.

 

The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).

 

It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.

It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october

That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this

They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks

 

Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons

 

6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.

 

And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.

You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?

To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:

Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.

Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.

In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.

So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.

I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.

Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.

 

  thekid1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/10/05
Posts: 772

10/08/12 9:47:18 AM#55
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy

Here is the article:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

 

Seems to me you missread.

 

The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).

 

It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.

It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october

That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this

They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks

 

Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons

 

6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.

 

And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.

You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?

To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:

Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.

Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.

In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.

So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.

I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.

Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.

 

I think Bioware (rip) got it's almost legendary status thanks to Baldurs Gate 2.

 

just like blizzard has with Diablo 2 and Valve with Halff life.

And the fact old farts like to give those games more credit then they probably deserve.

 

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

10/08/12 11:10:06 AM#56
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy

Here is the article:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

 

Seems to me you missread.

 

The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).

 

It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.

It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october

That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this

They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks

 

Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons

 

6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.

 

And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.

You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?

To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:

Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.

Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.

In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.

So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.

I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.

Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.

 

You are the odd one out then / in the minority, as many many people / the majority found Bioware games awesome and why it sold 2 million at launch.  If the game was made by Cryptic or SOE, it would not have sold well at all. Plus I doubt a Risen or a Witcher MMO would sell as well either. Not that that they are bad games, but Bioware had built up a hugely better reputation.

Also KOTOR > KOTOR 2 and KOTOR 2 was by Obsidian not Bioware.

TOR can not be viewed as a Bioware project any more, it had too many extra people on it, especially noobs straight out of school They may be the best but they certainly would not have had any / much experience, especially Bioware experience.

If Bioware were in total control, they would not have released the game until it was ready, even if it meant not releasing until 2014 or later, and the last 6 months would not have been done cutting the game down, as Bioware were all about creating awesome games, EA is all about making money.

If Bioware kept the game within their own budget, and did not have the millions EA chucked at it, the game probably would have been smaller, but a lot lot better.

EA just wanted to hit Activision/Blizzard where it hurt, and Bioware got caught up in the middle

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2307

First came pride, then envy.

10/08/12 4:01:41 PM#57
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by superniceguy

Here is the article:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/

It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here

During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

 

Seems to me you missread.

 

The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).

 

It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.

It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october

That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this

They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks

 

Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons

 

6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.

 

And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.

You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?

To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:

Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.

Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.

In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.

So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.

I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.

Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.

 

You are the odd one out then / in the minority, as many many people / the majority found Bioware games awesome and why it sold 2 million at launch.  If the game was made by Cryptic or SOE, it would not have sold well at all. Plus I doubt a Risen or a Witcher MMO would sell as well either. Not that that they are bad games, but Bioware had built up a hugely better reputation.

Also KOTOR > KOTOR 2 and KOTOR 2 was by Obsidian not Bioware.

TOR can not be viewed as a Bioware project any more, it had too many extra people on it, especially noobs straight out of school They may be the best but they certainly would not have had any / much experience, especially Bioware experience.

If Bioware were in total control, they would not have released the game until it was ready, even if it meant not releasing until 2014 or later, and the last 6 months would not have been done cutting the game down, as Bioware were all about creating awesome games, EA is all about making money.

If Bioware kept the game within their own budget, and did not have the millions EA chucked at it, the game probably would have been smaller, but a lot lot better.

EA just wanted to hit Activision/Blizzard where it hurt, and Bioware got caught up in the middle

You're missing the point entirely.  Time had nothing to do with it.  They had plenty of time.  5+ years.  Their overall design philosophy was flawed from the start.  This was their first MMO, so no amount of time would change that.  Bioware failed at making a stellar MMO to hold people's interest.  Read my list again, and realize how the design of the game effected the outcome of what we see now.  Time had nothing to do with it.  Planning, designing, managing, budgeting, etc.; was what they failed at.

  User Deleted
10/08/12 4:05:22 PM#58
Blizzard pretty much died the day Activision got involved too . The only difference is it had WoW in place by that time which is a bit like a zombie it just wont die but the life it had is gone forever .
  Ahnog

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/05
Posts: 230

10/08/12 4:44:41 PM#59

Nothing new or original in the op. Boring.

 

The game, however, continues to humm along.

Ahnog

Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.

http://www.ahnog.us

  SuperDonk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/22/10
Posts: 706

10/08/12 4:47:32 PM#60
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Origin
Bullfrog
Maxis
Westwood
Firaxis
Mythic
Bioware

Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

 Runic?

I want to be Uncle Owen again.

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