Originally posted by Loke666

The numbers of buttoms you need to smash is not a good measure on how casual a game is. Wow always had plenty of more hotkeys than Diablo (1) but still always been more casual.

As I see it have Wow always been casual, no way it could have that many players otherwise. But there is nothing wrong with being casual as long as it does it well.

Never been the game for me though.

this. i agree that every game can be what ever the devs wants, as long it does it well

Originally posted by Sp!k3

Originally posted by syntax42

Please do not debate the merits of the game design in this thread.

If you wish to argue whether or not Mists of Pandaria changed the game for the better, use this thread.

 

After debating the changes in the thread linked above, I came to the realization that World of Warcraft may no longer be the same game I swore an oath to never play again.  I experienced the frustration of the situation described by the quoted poster in this post when I decided the game wasn't worth my time.  However, the whole thread seems to indicate that Blizzard's attitude towards end-game may have changed to allow it to be accessible to everyone.

If you didn't read the linked post, I will reiterate their feelings.  I got to a certain point in the game where I couldn't progress.  Gathering the gear needed to raid took me longer than most people. By the time I thought I was ready to raid, the guilds that were raiding had already progressed to the next dungeon and refused to help new players get caught up.  Any guilds I joined were not capable of raiding due to gear or number of people.  Essentially, I felt like it was a waste of time to log in because I knew I wouldn't get anything done.

 

To those who have played Mists of Pandaria, do you think the game is accessible to everyone now?  

If I start fresh as a Monk (race yet to be decided) would I be able to enjoy the same content that everyone else does?  Keep in mind I won't have access to resources that previously-capped players have, and I may not join a guild for a while.

Is there a good chance that I will feel left behind due to my slower pace of progression than most gamers?

Have they reduced the eleventy-button syndrome?  In other words, will I still feel overwhelmed by the number of abilities, buffs, consumables, etc. that I need to have hotkeyed?

If they haven't reduced the number of buttons required to play, are there interface mods that make it easier to keep all of those buttons organized, easy, and fast to press the right ones?

 

Please do not turn this into a debate over the game being "handed to players" or not.  Use the thread linked above for that.

And that is exactly why we are in this shit hole of simple, meaningless, dumb down and simply wretched game design that developers serve us. So that Mr. X can come home after his hard day work at the pencil factory and play a game he likes for 30 min...from time to time... expecting to achieve something without hard work and be rewarded afterwards. MMOs ARE NOT THE PLACE TO GRIEF YOUR INABILITY TO ACHIEVE GOALS.

For the love of god don't You casual players know there is Nintendo Wii or even better DS that You can play with other casuals at "the office" and feel special with all the content You can discover while living Your "wonderful busy real lives"? Why the fck do You have to make everyone's game experience miserable just because you don't feel like playing that much and insist on posting all those "mommy they don't want to play with me, so make them" threads. It makes me sick...  ufff there I said it!

I had to lol at the title..

Blizzard created the word "casual" in the mmo world.

It seems many people are confused or do not share the same definition of "casual" as I do.  The main determining factor of how casual a game is would be the amount of time required to progress your character, or enjoy the game's content.  

In vanilla and Burning Crusade, the game was very casual for leveling.  However, once you reached the level cap and started doing dungeons and raiding, this changed.  The time commitment required slowly grew from 30 minutes to an hour, up to several hours, and eventually hours over a period of two or more days.  This time commitment only grew if you were not part of a guild that could manage scheduled events well.  You could be sitting around for hours waiting for a group to form for the dungeon you needed in order to progress.  Your guild's raid could end up not gathering enough people due to not enough logging on.  Either of those situations adds more wasted time and slows progression far beyond what a "casual" gamer would enjoy.

Yes, WoW was casual for leveling.  It was the opposite of casual at end-game.  Maybe I should have clarified my thread title to ask about end-game instead.  That is what I am most concerned about, but I have read so much about their changes since I last played.

Please use the thread linked in my first post if you wish to debate the effects and merits of the "casual-ization" of WoW.

that  game was always eaze mode even for the dumbest ppl

i dont see what could have change with pandaland excpet been more easier than it was before

its wow guyz i mean cmon....hardcore and wow dont belong togethere anymore

Originally posted by phantomghost

Umm, WoW has always been for casual gamers.  I guess you could consider it for hardcore gamers too except its not very time consuming.  Just go afk in a bg then half afk in the arena and you will be nearly as well geared as people who raid, minus maybe 10hp/mana.

 

As far as raiding, you will be behind.  I have not played since TBC, so i do not know where current gear would jump in.  Worst case give it a try see if you enjoy it, you can probably get prior game+expansions (not MoP) for pretty cheap.

Are you kidding? WoW had some of the most hardcore/difficult raids in vanilla.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo&list=FLsaY4qwkmX7DJ_Mc-04yyOw&index=1&feature=plpp_video

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by phantomghost

Umm, WoW has always been for casual gamers.  I guess you could consider it for hardcore gamers too except its not very time consuming.  Just go afk in a bg then half afk in the arena and you will be nearly as well geared as people who raid, minus maybe 10hp/mana.

 

As far as raiding, you will be behind.  I have not played since TBC, so i do not know where current gear would jump in.  Worst case give it a try see if you enjoy it, you can probably get prior game+expansions (not MoP) for pretty cheap.

Are you kidding? WoW had some of the most hardcore/difficult raids in vanilla.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo&list=FLsaY4qwkmX7DJ_Mc-04yyOw&index=1&feature=plpp_video

bahaha, maybe compared to other casual WoW clones, but not compared to other core MMORPGs. Virtually any raid in DAoC or EQ is harder than raids in WoW. Same goes for FF11 and CoH.

WoW's main audience has always been the casual gamer, which is why it aimed, and successfully, became the most casual MMO on the market when it launched.